Misc. Thoughts

[VikingOracle]

Recorded yesterday's game, not going to watch.  Been really busy this year so unable to post these weekly.

• Kendricks and Rudolph should be on IR today.  No reason to play them again this season.  I would actually consider cutting Rudolph and see if someone picks him up off of waivers (I think he must go through waivers) in order to pick up a little additional cap space.  Probably too insulting to do to him though.
• Start Browning or Stanley.  No preseason, so this is the only way to give the more promising of the two some game action.
• Last Year's Chicago Offensive Line:  I would do the same thing as last year in the Chicago game and play a lot of backups across the offensive line.  The downside of this is we get to complain all game long about Dozier having started 15 games.  I would love to see both Collins and Hinton play.  Udoh played well last year (not that it meant anything to the coaching staff).
• Fire Zimmer:  You want the Vikes to be in the playoffs every other year, he is your coach.  I am getting too old for that.  Roll the dice for greatness.
• Stop Drafting for Special Teams.   

[Guest]

@VikingOracle said:
Recorded yesterday's game, not going to watch.  Been really busy this year so unable to post these weekly.

• Kendricks and Rudolph should be on IR today.  No reason to play them again this season.  I would actually consider cutting Rudolph and see if someone picks him up off of waivers (I think he must go through waivers) in order to pick up a little additional cap space.  Probably too insulting to do to him though.
• Start Browning or Stanley.  No preseason, so this is the only way to give the more promising of the two some game action.
• Last Year's Chicago Offensive Line:  I would do the same thing as last year in the Chicago game and play a lot of backups across the offensive line.  The downside of this is we get to complain all game long about Dozier having started 15 games.  I would love to see both Collins and Hinton play.  Udoh played well last year (not that it meant anything to the coaching staff).
• Fire Zimmer:  You want the Vikes to be in the playoffs every other year, he is your coach.  I am getting too old for that.  Roll the dice for greatness.
• Stop Drafting for Special Teams.   

Agree with all except fire Zimmer.

I've blasted Zimmer when he's deserved it after games where his game plan was just baffling, but I didn't see that so much this year. I saw a team struggling to scrape together enough healthy bodies to field a team. I think with a full preseason, Hunter, Barr, Kendricks, Pierce, Hughes, etc....this is a different team. And it's hard to blame Zimmer for Covid and injuries to half his starters. 

Offense looks like it might remain among the best for a few years. What we're going to need is someone to bring the defense up to that level. I can't think of any better options than Zimmer. 

Really would like to see Cleveland and/or O'Neill at left tackle, Udoh on the right. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@VikingOracle said:
Recorded yesterday's game, not going to watch.  Been really busy this year so unable to post these weekly.

• Kendricks and Rudolph should be on IR today.  No reason to play them again this season.  I would actually consider cutting Rudolph and see if someone picks him up off of waivers (I think he must go through waivers) in order to pick up a little additional cap space.  Probably too insulting to do to him though.
• Start Browning or Stanley.  No preseason, so this is the only way to give the more promising of the two some game action.
• Last Year's Chicago Offensive Line:  I would do the same thing as last year in the Chicago game and play a lot of backups across the offensive line.  The downside of this is we get to complain all game long about Dozier having started 15 games.  I would love to see both Collins and Hinton play.  Udoh played well last year (not that it meant anything to the coaching staff).
• Fire Zimmer:  You want the Vikes to be in the playoffs every other year, he is your coach.  I am getting too old for that.  Roll the dice for greatness.
• Stop Drafting for Special Teams.   

Agree with all except fire Zimmer.

I've blasted Zimmer when he's deserved it after games where his game plan was just baffling, but I didn't see that so much this year. I saw a team struggling to scrape together enough healthy bodies to field a team. I think with a full preseason, Hunter, Barr, Kendricks, Pierce, Hughes, etc....this is a different team. And it's hard to blame Zimmer for Covid and injuries to half his starters. 

Offense looks like it might remain among the best for a few years. What we're going to need is someone to bring the defense up to that level. I can't think of any better options than Zimmer. 

Really would like to see Cleveland and/or O'Neill at left tackle, Udoh on the right. 

i wouldn’t necessarily fire Zimmer based on this game, but on his overall performance as a coach, and not just this season either

[Guest]

@Purplewhizz said:

@MaroonBells said:

@VikingOracle said:
Recorded yesterday's game, not going to watch.  Been really busy this year so unable to post these weekly.

• Kendricks and Rudolph should be on IR today.  No reason to play them again this season.  I would actually consider cutting Rudolph and see if someone picks him up off of waivers (I think he must go through waivers) in order to pick up a little additional cap space.  Probably too insulting to do to him though.
• Start Browning or Stanley.  No preseason, so this is the only way to give the more promising of the two some game action.
• Last Year's Chicago Offensive Line:  I would do the same thing as last year in the Chicago game and play a lot of backups across the offensive line.  The downside of this is we get to complain all game long about Dozier having started 15 games.  I would love to see both Collins and Hinton play.  Udoh played well last year (not that it meant anything to the coaching staff).
• Fire Zimmer:  You want the Vikes to be in the playoffs every other year, he is your coach.  I am getting too old for that.  Roll the dice for greatness.
• Stop Drafting for Special Teams.   

Agree with all except fire Zimmer.

I've blasted Zimmer when he's deserved it after games where his game plan was just baffling, but I didn't see that so much this year. I saw a team struggling to scrape together enough healthy bodies to field a team. I think with a full preseason, Hunter, Barr, Kendricks, Pierce, Hughes, etc....this is a different team. And it's hard to blame Zimmer for Covid and injuries to half his starters. 

Offense looks like it might remain among the best for a few years. What we're going to need is someone to bring the defense up to that level. I can't think of any better options than Zimmer. 

Really would like to see Cleveland and/or O'Neill at left tackle, Udoh on the right. 

i wouldn’t necessarily fire Zimmer based on this game, but on his overall performance as a coach, and not just this season either

Let me clarify. Firing Zimmer would not upset me. Like I've said many times, he does things that piss me off, from time management to what seems like poor game prep. If he's fired, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. 

It's not the decision I would make though. So many want us to bring in an offensive guy, which confuses me. Vikings already have one of the league's best offenses, and the future there looks bright. We need to get everyone healthy, add a 3T and see if we can't bring the defense back. Can't think of too many defensive minds I'd want in charge of that than Mike Zimmer. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@Purplewhizz said:

@MaroonBells said:

@VikingOracle said:
Recorded yesterday's game, not going to watch.  Been really busy this year so unable to post these weekly.

• Kendricks and Rudolph should be on IR today.  No reason to play them again this season.  I would actually consider cutting Rudolph and see if someone picks him up off of waivers (I think he must go through waivers) in order to pick up a little additional cap space.  Probably too insulting to do to him though.
• Start Browning or Stanley.  No preseason, so this is the only way to give the more promising of the two some game action.
• Last Year's Chicago Offensive Line:  I would do the same thing as last year in the Chicago game and play a lot of backups across the offensive line.  The downside of this is we get to complain all game long about Dozier having started 15 games.  I would love to see both Collins and Hinton play.  Udoh played well last year (not that it meant anything to the coaching staff).
• Fire Zimmer:  You want the Vikes to be in the playoffs every other year, he is your coach.  I am getting too old for that.  Roll the dice for greatness.
• Stop Drafting for Special Teams.   

Agree with all except fire Zimmer.

I've blasted Zimmer when he's deserved it after games where his game plan was just baffling, but I didn't see that so much this year. I saw a team struggling to scrape together enough healthy bodies to field a team. I think with a full preseason, Hunter, Barr, Kendricks, Pierce, Hughes, etc....this is a different team. And it's hard to blame Zimmer for Covid and injuries to half his starters. 

Offense looks like it might remain among the best for a few years. What we're going to need is someone to bring the defense up to that level. I can't think of any better options than Zimmer. 

Really would like to see Cleveland and/or O'Neill at left tackle, Udoh on the right. 

i wouldn’t necessarily fire Zimmer based on this game, but on his overall performance as a coach, and not just this season either

Let me clarify. Firing Zimmer would not upset me. Like I've said many times, he does things that piss me off, from time management to what seems like poor game prep. If he's fired, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. 

It's not the decision I would make though. So many want us to bring in an offensive guy, which confuses me. Vikings already have one of the league's best offenses, and the future there looks bright. We need to get everyone healthy, add a 3T and see if we can't bring the defense back. Can't think of too many defensive minds I'd want in charge of that than Mike Zimmer. 

He would be fine as a DC, but as you mention, team preparation, clock managment, game planning...he stinks at all those.  When have the Vikings won a big game during his tenure?  MSP Miracle, which took a miracle.

[Guest]

@Purplewhizz said:

@MaroonBells said:

@Purplewhizz said:

@MaroonBells said:

@VikingOracle said:
Recorded yesterday's game, not going to watch.  Been really busy this year so unable to post these weekly.

• Kendricks and Rudolph should be on IR today.  No reason to play them again this season.  I would actually consider cutting Rudolph and see if someone picks him up off of waivers (I think he must go through waivers) in order to pick up a little additional cap space.  Probably too insulting to do to him though.
• Start Browning or Stanley.  No preseason, so this is the only way to give the more promising of the two some game action.
• Last Year's Chicago Offensive Line:  I would do the same thing as last year in the Chicago game and play a lot of backups across the offensive line.  The downside of this is we get to complain all game long about Dozier having started 15 games.  I would love to see both Collins and Hinton play.  Udoh played well last year (not that it meant anything to the coaching staff).
• Fire Zimmer:  You want the Vikes to be in the playoffs every other year, he is your coach.  I am getting too old for that.  Roll the dice for greatness.
• Stop Drafting for Special Teams.   

Agree with all except fire Zimmer.

I've blasted Zimmer when he's deserved it after games where his game plan was just baffling, but I didn't see that so much this year. I saw a team struggling to scrape together enough healthy bodies to field a team. I think with a full preseason, Hunter, Barr, Kendricks, Pierce, Hughes, etc....this is a different team. And it's hard to blame Zimmer for Covid and injuries to half his starters. 

Offense looks like it might remain among the best for a few years. What we're going to need is someone to bring the defense up to that level. I can't think of any better options than Zimmer. 

Really would like to see Cleveland and/or O'Neill at left tackle, Udoh on the right. 

i wouldn’t necessarily fire Zimmer based on this game, but on his overall performance as a coach, and not just this season either

Let me clarify. Firing Zimmer would not upset me. Like I've said many times, he does things that piss me off, from time management to what seems like poor game prep. If he's fired, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. 

It's not the decision I would make though. So many want us to bring in an offensive guy, which confuses me. Vikings already have one of the league's best offenses, and the future there looks bright. We need to get everyone healthy, add a 3T and see if we can't bring the defense back. Can't think of too many defensive minds I'd want in charge of that than Mike Zimmer. 

He would be fine as a DC, but as you mention, team preparation, clock managment, game planning...he stinks at all those.  When have the Vikings won a big game during his tenure?  MSP Miracle, which took a miracle.

Who's your choice? Let's hear it. Viking fans have this tendency to want the elusive abstract: "the young offensive mind," "the young, mobile QB," etc, etc. Well who? "Oh I don't know, one of those young offensive minds. Y'know, like that guy in Philly...Er...wait." 

Well that's great 'n all but leadership has to be a little more specific than that. Who do you bring in that will select the right 3T, groom our young corners, and bring our defense back to what it was and not become the next Patricia, Gase, Nagy, O'Brien, Fangio, Quinn, etc, etc.?

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@Purplewhizz said:

@MaroonBells said:

@VikingOracle said:
Recorded yesterday's game, not going to watch.  Been really busy this year so unable to post these weekly.

• Kendricks and Rudolph should be on IR today.  No reason to play them again this season.  I would actually consider cutting Rudolph and see if someone picks him up off of waivers (I think he must go through waivers) in order to pick up a little additional cap space.  Probably too insulting to do to him though.
• Start Browning or Stanley.  No preseason, so this is the only way to give the more promising of the two some game action.
• Last Year's Chicago Offensive Line:  I would do the same thing as last year in the Chicago game and play a lot of backups across the offensive line.  The downside of this is we get to complain all game long about Dozier having started 15 games.  I would love to see both Collins and Hinton play.  Udoh played well last year (not that it meant anything to the coaching staff).
• Fire Zimmer:  You want the Vikes to be in the playoffs every other year, he is your coach.  I am getting too old for that.  Roll the dice for greatness.
• Stop Drafting for Special Teams.   

Agree with all except fire Zimmer.

I've blasted Zimmer when he's deserved it after games where his game plan was just baffling, but I didn't see that so much this year. I saw a team struggling to scrape together enough healthy bodies to field a team. I think with a full preseason, Hunter, Barr, Kendricks, Pierce, Hughes, etc....this is a different team. And it's hard to blame Zimmer for Covid and injuries to half his starters. 

Offense looks like it might remain among the best for a few years. What we're going to need is someone to bring the defense up to that level. I can't think of any better options than Zimmer. 

Really would like to see Cleveland and/or O'Neill at left tackle, Udoh on the right. 

i wouldn’t necessarily fire Zimmer based on this game, but on his overall performance as a coach, and not just this season either

Let me clarify. Firing Zimmer would not upset me. Like I've said many times, he does things that piss me off, from time management to what seems like poor game prep. If he's fired, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. 

It's not the decision I would make though. So many want us to bring in an offensive guy, which confuses me. Vikings already have one of the league's best offenses, and the future there looks bright. We need to get everyone healthy, add a 3T and see if we can't bring the defense back. Can't think of too many defensive minds I'd want in charge of that than Mike Zimmer. 

I'm not going to tell you who is the better defensive choice over Zimmer, because I won't accept either of your core points: that we need a HC who emphasizes defense, and that Zimmer is that defensive guru.

It's pretty crazy that people are calling for someone to help fix the defense and then using that to recommend the man who has hand-crafted that defensive unit for 7 years - and his result is a unit giving up 52 points. Seriously, Zimmer is the defensive wizard who will fix the defensive collapse that happened under Zimmer???

Yes I know the excuses for 2020: injuries, Covid, no preseason, salary cap made players have to leave, Xavier Rhodes left because he was washed up (oh really?), Waynes and Alexander left because they didn't develop (even with the "defensive genius" teaching them). OK, even if we accept all of those would inevitably derail a veteran coach, what about the collapses that happened in 2016 (5-0 start, 8-8 season), 2018, 2019 - hell, even that 2017 unit looked like smoke and mirrors once they had to play the Saints and Eagles.

I never saw a Zimmer defense, including 2017, that had the intimidating dominance of truly great defenses coached by Buddy Ryan, Wade Philips, or Don Martindale. Zimmer can build a defense that is good, not great - but can win games only if everything is perfect:

• ONLY IF he gets a lot of talent from spending in the draft and free agency
• ONLY IF everyone stays healthy
• ONLY IF the offense scores at least 21 (wasn't that his magic number?) points 
  
• ONLY IF the offense wins time of possession and keeps his defense off the field
  
• ONLY IF there are no turnovers
  
• ONLY IF he has a full preseason (making Zimmer the NFL's only supporter of preseason games)
  

You want to tell me Zimmer is a defensive genius? Then show me some time when he didn't have a lot of talent or favorable circumstances but managed to make his defense play over their heads and out of their minds and beat up an apparently superior opponent. 

Zimmer's team has not exceeded expectations since 2015. I suppose 9-7 next season on a last-place schedule will have his supporters pushing him for coach of the year.

[Guest]

It wasn’t just Covid. It was Covid plus an unusual amount of injuries, happening at the exact time we decided to go young. You can call them excuses all you want. They also happen to be the truth. 
It reminds me of college player evaluations. There was a wide receiver from Maryland a few years ago who was a 5-star recruit. Got offers from Ohio State, Florida and USC. Chose to stay home where he had a terrible QB and a series of injuries. Most scouts looked at his under-production and said “late rounder.” Smart ones looked at WHY Stefon Diggs underperformed at Maryland. 

In last spring’s draft, there was a 3T miscast as a 1T at Oklahoma. His production was sub-par and he was dismissed as a middle rounder by everyone. After watching his clips, I called Neville Gallimore the most underrated player in the draft. Why? Mostly because he was clearly a 3T miscast as a 1T at OU, constantly getting triple teamed because OU didn’t have any edge rushers that worried anyone. That’s the WHY. 

Now in a 43, this is what he’s doing…
https://twitter.com/JoshCallaway714/stat...50664?s=20

And this…to all pro Mike Pouncey

https://twitter.com/dlinevids1/status/13...25568?s=20
It’s all about the WHY. Why is an employee underperforming? And can you change it? Why did a stock underperform? Is it likely to turn around? Why did Zimmer’s defense underperform this year? I think it’s pretty obvious. And if we fire him, some smart GM is going to get a steal because he looked at the WHY. 

Now, all that said, would I prefer him as our DC and find a better game planner as HC? Yeah, I think so. But that’s not going to happen and we all know that. So I’d rather keep him at HC than risk losing him altogether. 

[Guest]

@Jor-El said:

@MaroonBells said:

@Purplewhizz said:

@MaroonBells said:

@VikingOracle said:
Recorded yesterday's game, not going to watch.  Been really busy this year so unable to post these weekly.

• Kendricks and Rudolph should be on IR today.  No reason to play them again this season.  I would actually consider cutting Rudolph and see if someone picks him up off of waivers (I think he must go through waivers) in order to pick up a little additional cap space.  Probably too insulting to do to him though.
• Start Browning or Stanley.  No preseason, so this is the only way to give the more promising of the two some game action.
• Last Year's Chicago Offensive Line:  I would do the same thing as last year in the Chicago game and play a lot of backups across the offensive line.  The downside of this is we get to complain all game long about Dozier having started 15 games.  I would love to see both Collins and Hinton play.  Udoh played well last year (not that it meant anything to the coaching staff).
• Fire Zimmer:  You want the Vikes to be in the playoffs every other year, he is your coach.  I am getting too old for that.  Roll the dice for greatness.
• Stop Drafting for Special Teams.   

Agree with all except fire Zimmer.

I've blasted Zimmer when he's deserved it after games where his game plan was just baffling, but I didn't see that so much this year. I saw a team struggling to scrape together enough healthy bodies to field a team. I think with a full preseason, Hunter, Barr, Kendricks, Pierce, Hughes, etc....this is a different team. And it's hard to blame Zimmer for Covid and injuries to half his starters. 

Offense looks like it might remain among the best for a few years. What we're going to need is someone to bring the defense up to that level. I can't think of any better options than Zimmer. 

Really would like to see Cleveland and/or O'Neill at left tackle, Udoh on the right. 

i wouldn’t necessarily fire Zimmer based on this game, but on his overall performance as a coach, and not just this season either

Let me clarify. Firing Zimmer would not upset me. Like I've said many times, he does things that piss me off, from time management to what seems like poor game prep. If he's fired, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. 

It's not the decision I would make though. So many want us to bring in an offensive guy, which confuses me. Vikings already have one of the league's best offenses, and the future there looks bright. We need to get everyone healthy, add a 3T and see if we can't bring the defense back. Can't think of too many defensive minds I'd want in charge of that than Mike Zimmer. 

I'm not going to tell you who is the better defensive choice over Zimmer, because I won't accept either of your core points: that we need a HC who emphasizes defense, and that Zimmer is that defensive guru.

It's pretty crazy that people are calling for someone to help fix the defense and then using that to recommend the man who has hand-crafted that defensive unit for 7 years - and his result is a unit giving up 52 points. Seriously, Zimmer is the defensive wizard who will fix the defensive collapse that happened under Zimmer???

Yes I know the excuses for 2020: injuries, Covid, no preseason, salary cap made players have to leave, Xavier Rhodes left because he was washed up (oh really?), Waynes and Alexander left because they didn't develop (even with the "defensive genius" teaching them). OK, even if we accept all of those would inevitably derail a veteran coach, what about the collapses that happened in 2016 (5-0 start, 8-8 season), 2018, 2019 - hell, even that 2017 unit looked like smoke and mirrors once they had to play the Saints and Eagles.

I never saw a Zimmer defense, including 2017, that had the intimidating dominance of truly great defenses coached by Buddy Ryan, Wade Philips, or Don Martindale. Zimmer can build a defense that is good, not great - but can win games only if everything is perfect:

• ONLY IF he gets a lot of talent from spending in the draft and free agency
• ONLY IF everyone stays healthy
• ONLY IF the offense scores at least 21 (wasn't that his magic number?) points 
  
• ONLY IF the offense wins time of possession and keeps his defense off the field
  
• ONLY IF there are no turnovers
  
• ONLY IF he has a full preseason (making Zimmer the NFL's only supporter of preseason games)
  

You want to tell me Zimmer is a defensive genius? Then show me some time when he didn't have a lot of talent or favorable circumstances but managed to make his defense play over their heads and out of their minds and beat up an apparently superior opponent. 

Zimmer's team has not exceeded expectations since 2015. I suppose 9-7 next season on a last-place schedule will have his supporters pushing him for coach of the year.

He has proven to not be, a great head coach so far. But it's not just him. We all look for the easy scapegoat. It's Cousins or Zimmer or the O-line, etc.. But it really is the organization under the Wilfs.
People on this board seem to think Spielman spins golden yarn with his draft choices. He finds some great players, but the team always seems to have a critical weakness, each year.

Truth is, the Vikings have a team capable of competing for a championship about every ten years! Unfortunately they have always found a way to lose.
The last team of that caliber was in 2009. It was a magical season with Case at QB in 2017, but they weren't really competitive, as evidenced by the Eagles game.

I think if you fired everyone and started over, you could have as good a season as they had this year. Even if they keep everyone in charge, it still feels like we are starting over on defense.

I think it's time for an organizational top to bottom overhaul; but that's just me.

But either way; we fans are overdue for a truly competitive team. I implore the Wilf's to consider that fact!

[Guest]

Zimmer could be here another 7 years without achieving anything and the same folks would make the same excuses for him and clamor for more years.  It's like a cult or something at this point.