Quote: @IDVikingfan said:
@ Skodin said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
What a total shit show! Both candidates were talking over each other. Personally, I don't know if any minds are changed, will be interesting to see what happens in the polls.
Both sides..... Really? The moderator had to say things like "Now Mr. President if you just hang on a second you are going to like this next question". Come on man this was an impulsive, bullying narcissist, imbecile.
Didn't do a tally to calculate proportions but clearly both were talking over each other. Worst debate I've sat through, glad I'm voting third party, can't stomach either candidate.
I realize you are going to try and downplay this to make it seem like both sides were at fault but seriously, just stop it.
One candidate completely steamrolled the moderator Wallace and his opponent. Biden didn’t want to appear meek and had no choice but to respond back to Trump’s complete disaster showing of trying to control the entire debate.
Christ almighty the rosy colored glasses the right sees the world through is something fucking bizarre.
LOL, just stop. Biden did interrupt trump at times and didn't always follow the moderator's wishes. It's okay, Joe's not perfect, really! LOL The rosy colored glasses that the left see the world is pretty bizarre.
Why do you think Biden interrupted? Could it be because Trump wouldn't let him talk during his time. He repeatedly asked the moderator who is the worst I have ever seen, for his time back. That's not rosy colored glasses, it's the truth. I don't know what sort of a filter you view Trump through but whatever. Also the attacks on his sons and the ongoing blatant lying were a factor but ok then. No one said Joe is perfect. But if Joe isn't perfect, what does that make Trump?
I guess you missed the times where Joe interjected when trump was speaking. It happened. That's the rosy colored glasses I am referring to.
I do agree the attack on Hunter was not really appropriate but the Dems did set the standard with their attacks on Trump's kids prior to and after the 2016 election. Joe was using the disproven Atlantic article to claim Trump dishonored service members and applied it to his son Beau. He made quite impassioned plea but it was a lie as trump never said what biden alleged.
Biden also repeated his charlottesville lie that he said at the convention, on the campaign trail and last night. For more see:
Trump quote from Charlottesville:
Quote: "You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. ... I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. ... So you know what, it's fine. You're changing history. You're changing culture. And you had people — and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the White nationalists, because they should be condemned totally — but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and White nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."
Biden called trump a liar multiple times yet he was guilty lies as well. For example, see above. I'm not a trump fan by any means nor am I a biden fan. Going third party for second election in a row.
Wow so he said it under complete pressure of the country 3 years ago, so I guess that's good enough.
Why not say it last night?Why not admit to paying $750 in federal income taxes versus lying about millions?Why not admit to a peaceful transition of power?Why not admit that Herman Cain died from receiving covid at his rally?Why lie about the Portland Sheriff?Why lie about "widespread" voting fraud?Why tell your followers to go to polling stations to make sure it's done properly?Why keep perpetuating the Hunter Biden lie?Why disrespect Beau Biden?Why use Hilary's quote and applying it to Biden?
Why support the police yet strip local police of $400 million in funding?
Why lie about Biden's health care plan and the 180 million who will lose their insurance?Why lie about all the manufacturing jobs you brought back?
Why not be presidential?
Why would you vote 3rd party to allow the possibility that this man will be President again?
Why can you not fucking man up and say you were wrong and you want a better America, versus wasting a vote on a 3rd party this year?
And if you do vote 3rd party this year, why the fuck should any sane moral person respect anything you say about this country?
You know me so well. NOT. I live in a state that has voted R for more than 50 years. There is no way Biden wins the 2020 Idaho vote and there was no way that Hillary would have won in 2016. I vote for someone that is closest to my thinking and it was not Hillary in 16, Joe in 20 or Trump in 16 or 20. I did man and my conviction. It matters not if you disagree.
Claiming Trump disrespected Beau was Biden's worst lie in my book. It is based on an Atlantic article that has been proven false by people with first hand knowledge of the story.
I'm not a trump fan. I do support our military and it pisses me off when someone falsely accuses someone of disrespecting our military.
In the case of electoral college versus the popular vote. You just explained why you need to engage in the popular vote so we as a country can get rid of the electoral college AS RECOMMENDED INITIALLY by Richard Nixon. The electoral college is the most un-american process left in our electoral system
Voting 3rd party is throwing a vote away and the eliminating the momentum to rid of a system that disenfranchises you to vote.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan
Regarding the Atlantic story...
Can you tell who these people are that refuted the claims? It is laughable that at in this day and age one still believed the stories that come out of this administration given the track record of lies being peddled. Literally almost every thing has been closely looked at under this administration has covered significant falsehoods.
How about a first hand from John Bolton, who most definitely is not a trump ally
&feature=youtu.be
How about this article:
https://www.newsweek.com/collusion-betwe...on-1530176
Bolton doesn't say it didn't happen, just that it didn't happen when he was present. "I can't prove he never said those things," he said. I think we have, what, 5 or 6 journalists who have backed up the original report. Are they ALL lying? I guess it's possible. But, given what Trump has already said on tape about prisoners of war ("I like people who weren't captured"), this is very much on message for him. So what does your gut tell you?..... That's what I thought.
Listen to what Bolton says: "President has a habit of disparaging people. He ends up denigrating almost everybody he comes in contact with whose last name is not Trump."
MB, read the newsweek article, author lists the people who were there and do not substantiate the Atlantic article.
I'm not impressed with journalists using unnamed sources. If the person is willing to make the charge, they should be willing to be named. An unnamed source is not substantiated in my book. YMMV
Its like if there was only a third option instead of voting for either of these two morons.
jo20.com
Quote: @AGRforever said:
Its like if there was only a third option instead of voting for either of these two morons.
jo20.com
I think many of us, even the liberals agree. 2 candidates, in the way that we choose them is moronic.
The two party system, the electoral college, zero term limits are parts of the system that must be changed moving forward.
I would love to have a 3, 4 party system. Breaking it down into various parties would allow for people to work together, find middle ground, make changes and test the merit of those changes. Even if those parties were the fringe elements of each major party, let's see them throw their policies out there and see the merit of them. Allows more Americans to participate in the political system that should serve them.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
Its like if there was only a third option instead of voting for either of these two morons.
jo20.com
I'm not a Biden fan, either. But if you mention that to the Trump cult members, they go nuts and call you a Biden-lover because you are either FOR Trump or their mortal enemy. We live in a dystopia.
Quote: @IDVikingfan said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan
Regarding the Atlantic story...
Can you tell who these people are that refuted the claims? It is laughable that at in this day and age one still believed the stories that come out of this administration given the track record of lies being peddled. Literally almost every thing has been closely looked at under this administration has covered significant falsehoods.
How about a first hand from John Bolton, who most definitely is not a trump ally
&feature=youtu.be
How about this article:
https://www.newsweek.com/collusion-betwe...on-1530176
Bolton doesn't say it didn't happen, just that it didn't happen when he was present. "I can't prove he never said those things," he said. I think we have, what, 5 or 6 journalists who have backed up the original report. Are they ALL lying? I guess it's possible. But, given what Trump has already said on tape about prisoners of war ("I like people who weren't captured"), this is very much on message for him. So what does your gut tell you?..... That's what I thought.
Listen to what Bolton says: "President has a habit of disparaging people. He ends up denigrating almost everybody he comes in contact with whose last name is not Trump."
MB, read the newsweek article, author lists the people who were there and do not substantiate the Atlantic article.
I'm not impressed with journalists using unnamed sources. If the person is willing to make the charge, they should be willing to be named. An unnamed source is not substantiated in my book. YMMV
Then, according to you, Watergate didn't happen. Unnamed sources are a big part of journalism. They have to be. They're vital to a free and independent press. They're vital to a democracy so that individuals, corporations and governments are held accountable for wrongdoing.
Anonymous sources and whistleblowers who know about crimes or abuses in government and business won't come forward if their names are printed in the press. They fear for the jobs, even their lives. And so what you get is only the "official" side of a story, which isn't always the truth. Sure, it can happen that an unnamed source will lie, so journalists will rarely print an accusation until they have independent corroboration; in other words, someone who is saying the same thing but unaware of the original accusation.
Without anonymous sources you don't expose Watergate, Enron, Big Tobacco, Monica Lewinski, Snowden outing the NSA, FBI-CIA blockage of info about 9-11, police corruption exposed by Frank Serpico, and on and on and on....
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ mblack said:
@ IDVikingfan
Regarding the Atlantic story...
Can you tell who these people are that refuted the claims? It is laughable that at in this day and age one still believed the stories that come out of this administration given the track record of lies being peddled. Literally almost every thing has been closely looked at under this administration has covered significant falsehoods.
How about a first hand from John Bolton, who most definitely is not a trump ally
&feature=youtu.be
How about this article:
https://www.newsweek.com/collusion-betwe...on-1530176
Bolton doesn't say it didn't happen, just that it didn't happen when he was present. "I can't prove he never said those things," he said. I think we have, what, 5 or 6 journalists who have backed up the original report. Are they ALL lying? I guess it's possible. But, given what Trump has already said on tape about prisoners of war ("I like people who weren't captured"), this is very much on message for him. So what does your gut tell you?..... That's what I thought.
Listen to what Bolton says: "President has a habit of disparaging people. He ends up denigrating almost everybody he comes in contact with whose last name is not Trump."
MB, read the newsweek article, author lists the people who were there and do not substantiate the Atlantic article.
I'm not impressed with journalists using unnamed sources. If the person is willing to make the charge, they should be willing to be named. An unnamed source is not substantiated in my book. YMMV
Then, according to you, Watergate didn't happen. Unnamed sources are a big part of journalism. They have to be. They're vital to a free and independent press. They're vital to a democracy so that individuals, corporations and governments are held accountable for wrongdoing.
Anonymous sources and whistleblowers who know about crimes or abuses in government and business won't come forward if their names are printed in the press. They fear for the jobs, even their lives. And so what you get is only the "official" side of a story, which isn't always the truth. Sure, it can happen that an unnamed source will lie, so journalists will rarely print an accusation until they have independent corroboration; in other words, someone who is saying the same thing but unaware of the original accusation.
Without anonymous sources you don't expose Watergate, Enron, Big Tobacco, Monica Lewinski, Snowden outing the NSA, FBI-CIA blockage of info about 9-11, police corruption exposed by Frank Serpico, and on and on and on....
You make good points MB. I have trouble though when witnesses that were there say it never happened but some unnamed source said it did. How do we reconcile? I tend to follow the in person views, recognizing that they may not have the full story but are willing to go on record with what they know.
Quote: @Skodin said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ Skodin said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ IDVikingfan said:
What a total shit show! Both candidates were talking over each other. Personally, I don't know if any minds are changed, will be interesting to see what happens in the polls.
Both sides..... Really? The moderator had to say things like "Now Mr. President if you just hang on a second you are going to like this next question". Come on man this was an impulsive, bullying narcissist, imbecile.
Didn't do a tally to calculate proportions but clearly both were talking over each other. Worst debate I've sat through, glad I'm voting third party, can't stomach either candidate.
I realize you are going to try and downplay this to make it seem like both sides were at fault but seriously, just stop it.
One candidate completely steamrolled the moderator Wallace and his opponent. Biden didn’t want to appear meek and had no choice but to respond back to Trump’s complete disaster showing of trying to control the entire debate.
Christ almighty the rosy colored glasses the right sees the world through is something fucking bizarre.
LOL, just stop. Biden did interrupt trump at times and didn't always follow the moderator's wishes. It's okay, Joe's not perfect, really! LOL The rosy colored glasses that the left see the world is pretty bizarre.
Why do you think Biden interrupted? Could it be because Trump wouldn't let him talk during his time. He repeatedly asked the moderator who is the worst I have ever seen, for his time back. That's not rosy colored glasses, it's the truth. I don't know what sort of a filter you view Trump through but whatever. Also the attacks on his sons and the ongoing blatant lying were a factor but ok then. No one said Joe is perfect. But if Joe isn't perfect, what does that make Trump?
I guess you missed the times where Joe interjected when trump was speaking. It happened. That's the rosy colored glasses I am referring to.
I do agree the attack on Hunter was not really appropriate but the Dems did set the standard with their attacks on Trump's kids prior to and after the 2016 election. Joe was using the disproven Atlantic article to claim Trump dishonored service members and applied it to his son Beau. He made quite impassioned plea but it was a lie as trump never said what biden alleged.
Biden also repeated his charlottesville lie that he said at the convention, on the campaign trail and last night. For more see:
Trump quote from Charlottesville:
Quote: "You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. ... I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. ... So you know what, it's fine. You're changing history. You're changing culture. And you had people — and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the White nationalists, because they should be condemned totally — but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and White nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."
Biden called trump a liar multiple times yet he was guilty lies as well. For example, see above. I'm not a trump fan by any means nor am I a biden fan. Going third party for second election in a row.
Wow so he said it under complete pressure of the country 3 years ago, so I guess that's good enough.
Why not say it last night?Why not admit to paying $750 in federal income taxes versus lying about millions?Why not admit to a peaceful transition of power?Why not admit that Herman Cain died from receiving covid at his rally?Why lie about the Portland Sheriff?Why lie about "widespread" voting fraud?Why tell your followers to go to polling stations to make sure it's done properly?Why keep perpetuating the Hunter Biden lie?Why disrespect Beau Biden?Why use Hilary's quote and applying it to Biden?
Why support the police yet strip local police of $400 million in funding?
Why lie about Biden's health care plan and the 180 million who will lose their insurance?Why lie about all the manufacturing jobs you brought back?
Why not be presidential?
Why would you vote 3rd party to allow the possibility that this man will be President again?
Why can you not fucking man up and say you were wrong and you want a better America, versus wasting a vote on a 3rd party this year?
And if you do vote 3rd party this year, why the fuck should any sane moral person respect anything you say about this country?
You know me so well. NOT. I live in a state that has voted R for more than 50 years. There is no way Biden wins the 2020 Idaho vote and there was no way that Hillary would have won in 2016. I vote for someone that is closest to my thinking and it was not Hillary in 16, Joe in 20 or Trump in 16 or 20. I did man and my conviction. It matters not if you disagree.
Claiming Trump disrespected Beau was Biden's worst lie in my book. It is based on an Atlantic article that has been proven false by people with first hand knowledge of the story.
I'm not a trump fan. I do support our military and it pisses me off when someone falsely accuses someone of disrespecting our military.
In the case of electoral college versus the popular vote. You just explained why you need to engage in the popular vote so we as a country can get rid of the electoral college AS RECOMMENDED INITIALLY by Richard Nixon. The electoral college is the most un-american process left in our electoral system
Voting 3rd party is throwing a vote away and the eliminating the momentum to rid of a system that disenfranchises you to vote.
"Voting 3rd party is throwing a vote away" according to the book of Skodin but I'm not a Skodin follower. I vote for the candidate that is closest to my thinking, simply following my right to vote as I see fit. I think the electoral college was a brilliant idea by the founders!
IDVike, why you gotta bust up their circle of fun?
Quote: @IDVikingfan said:
@ Skodin said:
In the case of electoral college versus the popular vote. You just explained why you need to engage in the popular vote so we as a country can get rid of the electoral college AS RECOMMENDED INITIALLY by Richard Nixon. The electoral college is the most un-american process left in our electoral system
Voting 3rd party is throwing a vote away and the eliminating the momentum to rid of a system that disenfranchises you to vote.
"Voting 3rd party is throwing a vote away" according to the book of Skodin but I'm not a Skodin follower. I vote for the candidate that is closest to my thinking, simply following my right to vote as I see fit. I think the electoral college was a brilliant idea by the founders!
99% of the time I would agree with you man, I would. I get it, despite "What is Aleppo?" I still voted for Gary Johnson in 16.
But this isn't 99% of the time, not after the last 3 years, the last 9 months of covid, nor last's night debacle.
You have a POTUS who has publicly stated he wants two more terms (and who knows after that), what 3rd party choice will we have if we our country is turned into a power play dictatorship.
He says he has the judges, the police, and the military, he has ruined the reputation of truth. These are all the key markings of tyranny. Check out Timothy Snyder's (widely respected voice on authoritarianism) excellent book "On Tyranny". YouTube has many of his talks as well. There are nothing but the markings of a dark era ahead of us, even if Biden wins the popular vote
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