I guess I would have been surprised if he was expected to start this year. Reiff is a long time veteran who’s decent. That’s a tough jump for a rookie in a year like this. I think he’s the long term plan. Reiff wasn’t our worst lineman last year nor will he be this year.
I also have to wonder what it’s like picking up this system if you haven’t played in one like it before. I’m sure it takes time. Time they haven’t had this year.
Mike Tice was quoted the other day as he was interviewed by a Viking's reporter about the O-line and he said he didnt think Reiff is a NFL LT. I agree.
Dream OL for me would be
Udoh-Reiff-Bradbury-Collins-ONeil
I know Udoh is raw but he’s been impressive consistently and frankly him with Reiff on the left side would provide more value and potential than Reiff-Dozier
Quote: @StickyBun said:
I didn't expect Cleveland to start this year, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is I thought the guy would at least play OT and maybe push next year to start. Sounds like he's got a long way to go regardless.
Vikings OL coaches have a history of tinkering too much with prospects. Nearly every draftee moves from OT to OG, as if playing OG is a way to ease them into the NFL. But if OG is easier, why hasn't any interior lineman had more than one decent year since Hutchinson left? Most prospects switch from left to right or vice-versa, or are asked to be "swing" players able to move around to different spots on the line (TJ Clemmings, Jeremiah Sirles, Aviante Collins) before they ever found comfort at one spot. Clemmings was changing positions so often his head was obviously spinning. Even O'Neill was switched from LT to RT.
I know the OL coaches are different now, but someone on this team thinks offensive linemen are interchangeable pieces. Ezra Cleveland has the frame and athleticism of an OT and played LT his entire college career. This team needs a new LT, next year if not sooner. Putting a player with long-term potential at LT in an OG spot, instead of grooming him for LT, seems like a desperate attempt to improve a position they otherwise failed to address in the offseason.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ StickyBun said:
I didn't expect Cleveland to start this year, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is I thought the guy would at least play OT and maybe push next year to start. Sounds like he's got a long way to go regardless.
Vikings OL coaches have a history of tinkering too much with prospects. Nearly every draftee moves from OT to OG, as if playing OG is a way to ease them into the NFL. But if OG is easier, why hasn't any interior lineman had more than one decent year since Hutchinson left? Most prospects switch from left to right or vice-versa, or are asked to be "swing" players able to move around to different spots on the line (TJ Clemmings, Jeremiah Sirles, Aviante Collins) before they ever found comfort at one spot. Clemmings was changing positions so often his head was obviously spinning. Even O'Neill was switched from LT to RT.
I know the OL coaches are different now, but someone on this team thinks offensive linemen are interchangeable pieces. Ezra Cleveland has the frame and athleticism of an OT and played LT his entire college career. This team needs a new LT, next year if not sooner. Putting a player with long-term potential at LT in an OG spot, instead of grooming him for LT, seems like a desperate attempt to improve a position they otherwise failed to address in the offseason.
The oline has been a hot mess under Zimmer for 6 years and doesn't look like it's about to change. The smart move would be to start building a better future NOW by putting Reiff at guard ( or cutting him to save money) and letting Cleveland learn on the job at LT. But they are beholden to the organizational delusion that they are "close" to a title so decisions favoring shaky vets and questionable use of young talent have become the norm.
Newsflash--one miracle-assisted NFCC appearance in 6 years of Zim in which they were handed their asses is not "close" and the sooner management fixes this team's head coach issue the sooner they can get on track to actually competing for a title instead of pushing the p.r. fantasy b.s. of how close they are.
It's kinda sad that they were finally ready to move on, then he wins a game in Nola that could have gone either way and it's "oh golly we're so close (except for the usual embarrassing beat-down the next week) let's give Zim some more years! "
Dream OL for me would be a line that can run block and pass block. I know the bar is so high but the OL has been such an issue for such a long time.
Quote: @Kmerry82 said:
I think they felt they were getting Oneill 2.0. Gut feel is he will be a poor mans Oneill. Could be a decent tackle, but has a ways to go. He may end up getting blocked by Udoh. It sounds like he is impressing. I am honestly surprised they haven't tried him at guard. There are pieces to move around on this line. Reiff could go do guard if Hill or Udoh do well. Center sounds promising. The guard situation is definitely meh. I think they will be better just by Bradbury taking the next step. Should help both guards out. Samia sounds like he isn't going to work out.
I get what you are trying to say but considering they drafted Cleveland higher in the Draft not sure you could call him a poor mans version. Other then that the stat lines are pretty close Cleveland is heavier while O'Neil is 1 inch taller. Letting Cleveland get more reps before starting is also a mirror of O Neil.
Quote: @comet52 said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ StickyBun said:
I didn't expect Cleveland to start this year, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is I thought the guy would at least play OT and maybe push next year to start. Sounds like he's got a long way to go regardless.
Vikings OL coaches have a history of tinkering too much with prospects. Nearly every draftee moves from OT to OG, as if playing OG is a way to ease them into the NFL. But if OG is easier, why hasn't any interior lineman had more than one decent year since Hutchinson left? Most prospects switch from left to right or vice-versa, or are asked to be "swing" players able to move around to different spots on the line (TJ Clemmings, Jeremiah Sirles, Aviante Collins) before they ever found comfort at one spot. Clemmings was changing positions so often his head was obviously spinning. Even O'Neill was switched from LT to RT.
I know the OL coaches are different now, but someone on this team thinks offensive linemen are interchangeable pieces. Ezra Cleveland has the frame and athleticism of an OT and played LT his entire college career. This team needs a new LT, next year if not sooner. Putting a player with long-term potential at LT in an OG spot, instead of grooming him for LT, seems like a desperate attempt to improve a position they otherwise failed to address in the offseason.
The oline has been a hot mess under Zimmer for 6 years and doesn't look like it's about to change. The smart move would be to start building a better future NOW by putting Reiff at guard ( or cutting him to save money) and letting Cleveland learn on the job at LT. But they are beholden to the organizational delusion that they are "close" to a title so decisions favoring shaky vets and questionable use of young talent have become the norm.
Newsflash--one miracle-assisted NFCC appearance in 6 years of Zim in which they were handed their asses is not "close" and the sooner management fixes this team's head coach issue the sooner they can get on track to actually competing for a title instead of pushing the p.r. fantasy b.s. of how close they are.
It's kinda sad that they were finally ready to move on, then he wins a game in Nola that could have gone either way and it's "oh golly we're so close (except for the usual embarrassing beat-down the next week) let's give Zim some more years! "
Hmmm tough judgment on Zimmer, but good reminder that frustration was very high most of last season but now positivity reigns. Memories are short and too many people just think, "10 wins last year, we were one of the best teams in football!" - without remembering most wins were against losing teams and the Vikings choked when they had chances to take a win against a Mahomes-free Chiefs team or give themselves a chance at the division (more significantly, handed an embarrassing rout in USB by the Packers).
I would like Zimmer's strongest supporters to identify what they believe is his excellence. I've seen many remarks that the offense is now the strength of this team. That's odd for a HC with reputed defensive genius, but what is his area of defensive dominance? People call him "DB whisperer" but he hasn't built consistent excellence here (yet anyway). The defensive line has been strong here but not dominating outside of Hunter's excellence.
Calling our offense the team's strength actually seems more like an acknowledgment of defensive decline than actual strength. We were 16th in yardage (mediocre) and 8th in scoring (pretty good), had a star WR deeply frustrated with the offensive philosophy and a QB that many on this board were screaming to have waived during half of last season.
IMO Zimmer is linked with Spielman enough that the Wilfs deeming one a failure probably brings down the other as well. This season will be an interesting test for Zimmer - if the NFL plays.
It has gotten to the point that an average O-lineman is a welcome sight in Minnesota.
Player evaluation of O-linemen and QB's available in the draft has been a weak spot some time. Two of the most crucial positions with regard to offensive success.
Cleveland may develop into a starting NFL caliber lineman eventually. But starting him out at entirely new position has to make it more difficult for him.
Every year they move people around on the O-line, and it never seems to work out.
It probably won't make any difference who the left guard is anyway, if the Elf is a starter!
BTW, Bradbury has a lot of improving to do also.
This group doesn't draft well when it comes to O-line.
Lots of good points made in this thread...
I read somewhere that if there was one rook on the Vikings squad hurt most by Covid restrictions?
It was Cleveland.
Zimmer was given what? A 3 year extension?
Probably his last one here given his age and league tenure. So that leaves a Covid season and hopefully two, non-covid years to do something really special. I'm at peace with that for now.
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