Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
His stats and effectiveness did erode over time. Or at least that appeared to be the case if memory serves me right.
But Is there a football reason why Kapernick wouldn't be better than 98% of the back-up qb's on a roster today?
Honestly, I'd rather have him behind KC than what we got. But you'd have to be ready for a media circus, at least for a little while.
Personally, I think he'd be better than a third of the starting QBs in the NFL. But I think it's the circus that has prevented him from joining a team. Even the Vikings, with one of the most progressive FOs in the league, it's tough to see them adding a potential distraction like this to their carefully crafted culture.
I think there’s a lot of QBs that are better than existing
starters because teams want to give their young rookie contract QB every chance
to succeed even if they suck in the short term.
I totally agree that the media circus is the primary problem with Kaepernick,
more so than people not liking him. I
just don’t think the BLM people will be content with him being a backup and just
being on the team. They want/need him to
be heroic. If we signed him as a backup,
it would only be mere moments before we started having to field a constant
stream of questions about if he’s better than Cousins and if maybe now is the
right time to make the switch.
Don't agree with the bold at all. I think people who know football, regardless of their opinion of his cause, think it's an injustice that he's not on an NFL roster. Should he be starting? Yeah, there are probably at least a half dozen teams for whom he would be an upgrade.
We're talking about a guy who was one play away from winning a Super Bowl, two straight appearances in the NFC Championship game, and the 4th best TD/INT ratio in history, prompting a contract extension worth $126 Million. Teams lie all the time, but they don't lie with their checkbooks. Over the next year and a half, despite 4 surgeries and 2 coaching changes that limited his effectiveness, his final season saw him get healthy, throw 16 TDs with only 4 INTs, while rushing for nearly 500 yards in only 12 games. He'd still be on that team if it weren't for the kneeling...and the decision to change coaches a 3rd time to a system that didn't fit him.
Thank you! I was told by the football "experts" on this site that if he were any good he would be playing and that his ouster had nothing to do with kneeling. That's when I stopped posted about this issue.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
His stats and effectiveness did erode over time. Or at least that appeared to be the case if memory serves me right.
But Is there a football reason why Kapernick wouldn't be better than 98% of the back-up qb's on a roster today?
Honestly, I'd rather have him behind KC than what we got. But you'd have to be ready for a media circus, at least for a little while.
Personally, I think he'd be better than a third of the starting QBs in the NFL. But I think it's the circus that has prevented him from joining a team. Even the Vikings, with one of the most progressive FOs in the league, it's tough to see them adding a potential distraction like this to their carefully crafted culture.
I think there’s a lot of QBs that are better than existing
starters because teams want to give their young rookie contract QB every chance
to succeed even if they suck in the short term.
I totally agree that the media circus is the primary problem with Kaepernick,
more so than people not liking him. I
just don’t think the BLM people will be content with him being a backup and just
being on the team. They want/need him to
be heroic. If we signed him as a backup,
it would only be mere moments before we started having to field a constant
stream of questions about if he’s better than Cousins and if maybe now is the
right time to make the switch.
Don't agree with the bold at all. I think people who know football, regardless of their opinion of his cause, think it's an injustice that he's not on an NFL roster. Should he be starting? Yeah, there are probably at least a half dozen teams for whom he would be an upgrade.
We're talking about a guy who was one play away from winning a Super Bowl, two straight appearances in the NFC Championship game, and the 4th best TD/INT ratio in history, prompting a contract extension worth $126 Million. Teams lie all the time, but they don't lie with their checkbooks. Over the next year and a half, despite 4 surgeries and 2 coaching changes that limited his effectiveness, his final season saw him get healthy, throw 16 TDs with only 4 INTs, while rushing for nearly 500 yards in only 12 games. He'd still be on that team if it weren't for the kneeling...and the decision to change coaches a 3rd time to a system that didn't fit him.
what came first, the kneeling or being put to 2nd string and wanting a trade?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
His stats and effectiveness did erode over time. Or at least that appeared to be the case if memory serves me right.
But Is there a football reason why Kapernick wouldn't be better than 98% of the back-up qb's on a roster today?
Honestly, I'd rather have him behind KC than what we got. But you'd have to be ready for a media circus, at least for a little while.
Personally, I think he'd be better than a third of the starting QBs in the NFL. But I think it's the circus that has prevented him from joining a team. Even the Vikings, with one of the most progressive FOs in the league, it's tough to see them adding a potential distraction like this to their carefully crafted culture.
I think there’s a lot of QBs that are better than existing
starters because teams want to give their young rookie contract QB every chance
to succeed even if they suck in the short term.
I totally agree that the media circus is the primary problem with Kaepernick,
more so than people not liking him. I
just don’t think the BLM people will be content with him being a backup and just
being on the team. They want/need him to
be heroic. If we signed him as a backup,
it would only be mere moments before we started having to field a constant
stream of questions about if he’s better than Cousins and if maybe now is the
right time to make the switch.
Don't agree with the bold at all. I think people who know football, regardless of their opinion of his cause, think it's an injustice that he's not on an NFL roster. Should he be starting? Yeah, there are probably at least a half dozen teams for whom he would be an upgrade.
We're talking about a guy who was one play away from winning a Super Bowl, two straight appearances in the NFC Championship game, and the 4th best TD/INT ratio in history, prompting a contract extension worth $126 Million. Teams lie all the time, but they don't lie with their checkbooks. Over the next year and a half, despite 4 surgeries and 2 coaching changes that limited his effectiveness, his final season saw him get healthy, throw 16 TDs with only 4 INTs, while rushing for nearly 500 yards in only 12 games. He'd still be on that team if it weren't for the kneeling...and the decision to change coaches a 3rd time to a system that didn't fit him.
what came first, the kneeling or being put to 2nd string and wanting a trade?
I'm not following. Are you saying that he didn't really believe in what he did. He did it only to stir controversy and force a trade?
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
...
what came first, the kneeling or being put to 2nd string and wanting a trade?
I'm not following. Are you saying that he didn't really believe in what he did. He did it only to stir controversy and force a trade?
How does your brain even convolute itself to come to that interpretation? He's saying "Did the NFL teams decide Kap was a backup caliber QB before or after he started being political in a way that teams couldn't live with?" The entire argument that people are making is that the NFL thinks Kap sucks because of his politics and Jimmy is suggesting the timeline is that he was a backup before his politics became big.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
...
what came first, the kneeling or being put to 2nd string and wanting a trade?
I'm not following. Are you saying that he didn't really believe in what he did. He did it only to stir controversy and force a trade?
How does your brain even convolute itself to come to that interpretation? He's saying "Did the NFL teams decide Kap was a backup caliber QB before or after he started being political in a way that teams couldn't live with?" The entire argument that people are making is that the NFL thinks Kap sucks because of his politics and Jimmy is suggesting the timeline is that he was a backup before his politics became big.
The people who think that are following a narrative and didn't follow what went down. After Harbaugh left, Kaepernick struggled to adjust to Chryst's offense under Jim Tomsula. Both were fired. He was also playing with a torn labrum in his shoulder. He was benched mid-season and immediately had surgery on the shoulder, landing him on IR. The following offseason, given his 3rd different offense in 3 seasons, he had two more surgeries on his knee and thumb and was still recovering at the start of the 2016 season. Fully healthy, he was named the starter again in week 6.
In that 2016 season Gabbert played 5 games and Kaepernick 11. Here's how their numbers breakdown.
Quote:Blaine Gabbert, with the 49ers, 2016 season
91-for-160 (56.9% completion rate)
925 yards, 4.7 yards per attempt
5 TDs, 6 INTs
68.4 passer rating
40 rush attempts, 173 yards, 2 TDs
Colin Kaepernick, with those same 49ers, 2016 season
196-for-331 (59.2% completion rate)
2,241 yards, 6.8 yards per attempt
16 TDs, 4 INTs
90.7 passer rating
69 rush attempts, 468 yards, 2 TDs
Despite these ridiculous stats, Gabbert got a contract with the Cardinals and is still in the league. Kaepernick got nothing and is still out. Despite the fact that, previous to the surgeries and all the coaching changes, this is a guy who went to two straight NFC titles, broke the record for rushing yards in a single game, and has the 4th best TD/INT ratio in history. Tom Brady is 5th. Think a guy like that, at 28 years old, given a string of health and some coaching continuity, might be of value to someone? Of course. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
...
what came first, the kneeling or being put to 2nd string and wanting a trade?
I'm not following. Are you saying that he didn't really believe in what he did. He did it only to stir controversy and force a trade?
How does your brain even convolute itself to come to that interpretation? He's saying "Did the NFL teams decide Kap was a backup caliber QB before or after he started being political in a way that teams couldn't live with?" The entire argument that people are making is that the NFL thinks Kap sucks because of his politics and Jimmy is suggesting the timeline is that he was a backup before his politics became big.
The people who think that are following a narrative and didn't follow what went down. After Harbaugh left, Kaepernick struggled to adjust to Chryst's offense under Jim Tomsula. Both were fired. He was also playing with a torn labrum in his shoulder. He was benched mid-season and immediately had surgery on the shoulder, landing him on IR. The following offseason, given his 3rd different offense in 3 seasons, he had two more surgeries on his knee and thumb and was still recovering at the start of the 2016 season. Fully healthy, he was named the starter again in week 6.
In that 2016 season Gabbert played 5 games and Kaepernick 11. Here's how their numbers breakdown.
Quote:Blaine Gabbert, with the 49ers, 2016 season
91-for-160 (56.9% completion rate)
925 yards, 4.7 yards per attempt
5 TDs, 6 INTs
68.4 passer rating
40 rush attempts, 173 yards, 2 TDs
Colin Kaepernick, with those same 49ers, 2016 season
196-for-331 (59.2% completion rate)
2,241 yards, 6.8 yards per attempt
16 TDs, 4 INTs
90.7 passer rating
69 rush attempts, 468 yards, 2 TDs
Despite these ridiculous stats, Gabbert got a contract with the Cardinals and is still in the league. Kaepernick got nothing and is still out. Despite the fact that, previous to the surgeries and all the coaching changes, this is a guy who went to two straight NFC titles, broke the record for rushing yards in a single game, and has the 4th best TD/INT ratio in history. Tom Brady is 5th. Think a guy like that, at 28 years old, given a string of health and some coaching continuity, might be of value to someone? Of course. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.
You are wasting your time here. They will bring up another bogus excuse like... maybe Gabbert is a better fit in the AZ offense or Gabbert has more upside. You know, those bias cliches that mean absolutely nothing and cant be quantified.
They would give you all sorts of what ifs except looking at the stats you posted.
Quote: @mblack said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
...
what came first, the kneeling or being put to 2nd string and wanting a trade?
I'm not following. Are you saying that he didn't really believe in what he did. He did it only to stir controversy and force a trade?
How does your brain even convolute itself to come to that interpretation? He's saying "Did the NFL teams decide Kap was a backup caliber QB before or after he started being political in a way that teams couldn't live with?" The entire argument that people are making is that the NFL thinks Kap sucks because of his politics and Jimmy is suggesting the timeline is that he was a backup before his politics became big.
The people who think that are following a narrative and didn't follow what went down. After Harbaugh left, Kaepernick struggled to adjust to Chryst's offense under Jim Tomsula. Both were fired. He was also playing with a torn labrum in his shoulder. He was benched mid-season and immediately had surgery on the shoulder, landing him on IR. The following offseason, given his 3rd different offense in 3 seasons, he had two more surgeries on his knee and thumb and was still recovering at the start of the 2016 season. Fully healthy, he was named the starter again in week 6.
In that 2016 season Gabbert played 5 games and Kaepernick 11. Here's how their numbers breakdown.
Quote:Blaine Gabbert, with the 49ers, 2016 season
91-for-160 (56.9% completion rate)
925 yards, 4.7 yards per attempt
5 TDs, 6 INTs
68.4 passer rating
40 rush attempts, 173 yards, 2 TDs
Colin Kaepernick, with those same 49ers, 2016 season
196-for-331 (59.2% completion rate)
2,241 yards, 6.8 yards per attempt
16 TDs, 4 INTs
90.7 passer rating
69 rush attempts, 468 yards, 2 TDs
Despite these ridiculous stats, Gabbert got a contract with the Cardinals and is still in the league. Kaepernick got nothing and is still out. Despite the fact that, previous to the surgeries and all the coaching changes, this is a guy who went to two straight NFC titles, broke the record for rushing yards in a single game, and has the 4th best TD/INT ratio in history. Tom Brady is 5th. Think a guy like that, at 28 years old, given a string of health and some coaching continuity, might be of value to someone? Of course. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.
You are wasting your time here. They will bring up another bogus excuse like... maybe Gabbert is a better fit in the AZ offense or Gabbert has more upside. You know, those bias cliches that mean absolutely nothing and cant be quantified.
They would give you all sorts of what ifs except looking at the stats you posted.
Maybe if I took the names out?
Player A, who has been a complete bust, a career passer rating in the 60s, a .500 TD/INT ratio, a 13-35 career win loss record ...in 2016 for San Fransisco throws 5 TDs and 6 INTs for a 68.4 passer rating. That spring, player A gets a contract with the Cardinals, and is still playing.
Player B, who has taken his team to two straight title games, has an 87.8 career passer rating, 4th highest INT rate in NFL history, a 4-2 playoff record, holder of two NFL records for rushing (which is a thing), in 2016 throws 16 TDs and 4 INT for a 90.7 rating. That spring, player B gets nothing.
Didnt Kapernick win an NFCCG @ Lamblow as part of his resume? Maybe beat the Packers a couple times in those big games?
That's enough for me right there... :p
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ mblack said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
...
what came first, the kneeling or being put to 2nd string and wanting a trade?
I'm not following. Are you saying that he didn't really believe in what he did. He did it only to stir controversy and force a trade?
How does your brain even convolute itself to come to that interpretation? He's saying "Did the NFL teams decide Kap was a backup caliber QB before or after he started being political in a way that teams couldn't live with?" The entire argument that people are making is that the NFL thinks Kap sucks because of his politics and Jimmy is suggesting the timeline is that he was a backup before his politics became big.
The people who think that are following a narrative and didn't follow what went down. After Harbaugh left, Kaepernick struggled to adjust to Chryst's offense under Jim Tomsula. Both were fired. He was also playing with a torn labrum in his shoulder. He was benched mid-season and immediately had surgery on the shoulder, landing him on IR. The following offseason, given his 3rd different offense in 3 seasons, he had two more surgeries on his knee and thumb and was still recovering at the start of the 2016 season. Fully healthy, he was named the starter again in week 6.
In that 2016 season Gabbert played 5 games and Kaepernick 11. Here's how their numbers breakdown.
Quote:Blaine Gabbert, with the 49ers, 2016 season
91-for-160 (56.9% completion rate)
925 yards, 4.7 yards per attempt
5 TDs, 6 INTs
68.4 passer rating
40 rush attempts, 173 yards, 2 TDs
Colin Kaepernick, with those same 49ers, 2016 season
196-for-331 (59.2% completion rate)
2,241 yards, 6.8 yards per attempt
16 TDs, 4 INTs
90.7 passer rating
69 rush attempts, 468 yards, 2 TDs
Despite these ridiculous stats, Gabbert got a contract with the Cardinals and is still in the league. Kaepernick got nothing and is still out. Despite the fact that, previous to the surgeries and all the coaching changes, this is a guy who went to two straight NFC titles, broke the record for rushing yards in a single game, and has the 4th best TD/INT ratio in history. Tom Brady is 5th. Think a guy like that, at 28 years old, given a string of health and some coaching continuity, might be of value to someone? Of course. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.
You are wasting your time here. They will bring up another bogus excuse like... maybe Gabbert is a better fit in the AZ offense or Gabbert has more upside. You know, those bias cliches that mean absolutely nothing and cant be quantified.
They would give you all sorts of what ifs except looking at the stats you posted.
Maybe if I took the names out?
Player A, who has been a complete bust, a career passer rating in the 60s, a .500 TD/INT ratio, a 13-35 career win loss record ...in 2016 for San Fransisco throws 5 TDs and 6 INTs for a 68.4 passer rating. That spring, player A gets a contract with the Cardinals, and is still playing.
Player B, who has taken his team to two straight title games, has an 87.8 career passer rating, 4th highest INT rate in NFL history, a 4-2 playoff record, holder of two NFL records for rushing (which is a thing), in 2016 throws 16 TDs and 4 INT for a 90.7 rating. That spring, player B gets nothing.
What if. a person thinks neither would be a good option for different reasons?
You are pretty insistent that a guy that's been out of the league for several years would step in and be effective at the most difficult position to play well. I dont see that as very likely not worth the distractions to find out, and apparently neither do any of the GMs/owners out there.
Kap kneeled for what he believes, I can respect that, but I can also respect the people running the teams to make the best decisions for their teams as well.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ mblack said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
...
what came first, the kneeling or being put to 2nd string and wanting a trade?
I'm not following. Are you saying that he didn't really believe in what he did. He did it only to stir controversy and force a trade?
How does your brain even convolute itself to come to that interpretation? He's saying "Did the NFL teams decide Kap was a backup caliber QB before or after he started being political in a way that teams couldn't live with?" The entire argument that people are making is that the NFL thinks Kap sucks because of his politics and Jimmy is suggesting the timeline is that he was a backup before his politics became big.
The people who think that are following a narrative and didn't follow what went down. After Harbaugh left, Kaepernick struggled to adjust to Chryst's offense under Jim Tomsula. Both were fired. He was also playing with a torn labrum in his shoulder. He was benched mid-season and immediately had surgery on the shoulder, landing him on IR. The following offseason, given his 3rd different offense in 3 seasons, he had two more surgeries on his knee and thumb and was still recovering at the start of the 2016 season. Fully healthy, he was named the starter again in week 6.
In that 2016 season Gabbert played 5 games and Kaepernick 11. Here's how their numbers breakdown.
Quote:Blaine Gabbert, with the 49ers, 2016 season
91-for-160 (56.9% completion rate)
925 yards, 4.7 yards per attempt
5 TDs, 6 INTs
68.4 passer rating
40 rush attempts, 173 yards, 2 TDs
Colin Kaepernick, with those same 49ers, 2016 season
196-for-331 (59.2% completion rate)
2,241 yards, 6.8 yards per attempt
16 TDs, 4 INTs
90.7 passer rating
69 rush attempts, 468 yards, 2 TDs
Despite these ridiculous stats, Gabbert got a contract with the Cardinals and is still in the league. Kaepernick got nothing and is still out. Despite the fact that, previous to the surgeries and all the coaching changes, this is a guy who went to two straight NFC titles, broke the record for rushing yards in a single game, and has the 4th best TD/INT ratio in history. Tom Brady is 5th. Think a guy like that, at 28 years old, given a string of health and some coaching continuity, might be of value to someone? Of course. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.
You are wasting your time here. They will bring up another bogus excuse like... maybe Gabbert is a better fit in the AZ offense or Gabbert has more upside. You know, those bias cliches that mean absolutely nothing and cant be quantified.
They would give you all sorts of what ifs except looking at the stats you posted.
Maybe if I took the names out?
Player A, who has been a complete bust, a career passer rating in the 60s, a .500 TD/INT ratio, a 13-35 career win loss record ...in 2016 for San Fransisco throws 5 TDs and 6 INTs for a 68.4 passer rating. That spring, player A gets a contract with the Cardinals, and is still playing.
Player B, who has taken his team to two straight title games, has an 87.8 career passer rating, 4th highest INT rate in NFL history, a 4-2 playoff record, holder of two NFL records for rushing (which is a thing), in 2016 throws 16 TDs and 4 INT for a 90.7 rating. That spring, player B gets nothing.
What if. a person thinks neither would be a good option for different reasons?
You are pretty insistent that a guy that's been out of the league for several years would step in and be effective at the most difficult position to play well. I dont see that as very likely not worth the distractions to find out, and apparently neither do any of the GMs/owners out there.
Kap kneeled for what he believes, I can respect that, but I can also respect the people running the teams to make the best decisions for their teams as well.
That's a different argument. My argument is that you can't seriously compare what Kaepernick had accomplished to other players (like Gabbert among others) and say that, based on his performance, he wasn't worthy of getting a shot in 2017. If you're honest with yourself, you can see that this was a glaring injustice.
You can, however, make a legit argument that, after missing three seasons, he may no longer be able to play at that level. I would argue, though, that he, at the very least, deserves a shot to compete on a roster. Even now, he's only 9 months older than Kirk Cousins.
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