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Throwing the baby out with the bath water.
#11
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@BigAl99 said:
Conservatives are turning this into another strawman argument, finding every dingbat statement and associate it with the movement.  What I understood and took it to mean was the reorganization of police forces in to peace keeping organizations designed around community needs, not urban warfare specialists for every situation.  Keeping a record of bad "officers" who shouldn't be in the profession isn't such a reach.  Being able to get more than Police, Fire or EMT when calling 911, majority of them being combat trained.  In the work place it's called "lean" and "continuous improvement".   I sure as hell won't support putting police in dangerous situation's, but every situation shouldn't be treated as dangerous.
Disagree. My EMT buddies have told me about the times theyve had guns and knives pulled on them while doing a call. Every situation where you as a cop are pulled into should be considered dangerous. 99% of the cops out there are decent humans. its figuring out who the scumbags are and getting rid of them. 

Well I have three friends, one an EMT, one a Police officer and one a fireman, and they say your friend is full of crap and disagree with you.  Just saying
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#12
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@BigAl99 said:
Conservatives are turning this into another strawman argument, finding every dingbat statement and associate it with the movement.  What I understood and took it to mean was the reorganization of police forces in to peace keeping organizations designed around community needs, not urban warfare specialists for every situation.  Keeping a record of bad "officers" who shouldn't be in the profession isn't such a reach.  Being able to get more than Police, Fire or EMT when calling 911, majority of them being combat trained.  In the work place it's called "lean" and "continuous improvement".   I sure as hell won't support putting police in dangerous situation's, but every situation shouldn't be treated as dangerous.
Disagree. My EMT buddies have told me about the times theyve had guns and knives pulled on them while doing a call. Every situation where you as a cop are pulled into should be considered dangerous. 99% of the cops out there are decent humans. its figuring out who the scumbags are and getting rid of them. 
wasnt one of the last big race blow ups at the cops in minneapolis last year, where racism and police brutality was cried,  exactly that situation?  If I remember right there was an ambulance called for a woman and the eventual "victim" wouldnt let the EMTs help her,  and when the cops showed up he tried to attack them with a knife or something?   I dont remember the specifics but I think it was a year or so ago.
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#13
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@AGRforever said:
@BigAl99 said:
Conservatives are turning this into another strawman argument, finding every dingbat statement and associate it with the movement.  What I understood and took it to mean was the reorganization of police forces in to peace keeping organizations designed around community needs, not urban warfare specialists for every situation.  Keeping a record of bad "officers" who shouldn't be in the profession isn't such a reach.  Being able to get more than Police, Fire or EMT when calling 911, majority of them being combat trained.  In the work place it's called "lean" and "continuous improvement".   I sure as hell won't support putting police in dangerous situation's, but every situation shouldn't be treated as dangerous.
Disagree. My EMT buddies have told me about the times theyve had guns and knives pulled on them while doing a call. Every situation where you as a cop are pulled into should be considered dangerous. 99% of the cops out there are decent humans. its figuring out who the scumbags are and getting rid of them. 

Well I have three friends, one an EMT, one a Police officer and one a fireman, and they say your friend is full of crap and disagree with you.  Just saying
Im in a rural area. Two of them are my neighbors but it occurred in Atlanta several times for the one and I forget which city for my other neighbor. But...if you know my neighbors better then I do then congratulations......I guess?
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#14
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@BigAl99 said:
Conservatives are turning this into another strawman argument, finding every dingbat statement and associate it with the movement.  What I understood and took it to mean was the reorganization of police forces in to peace keeping organizations designed around community needs, not urban warfare specialists for every situation.  Keeping a record of bad "officers" who shouldn't be in the profession isn't such a reach.  Being able to get more than Police, Fire or EMT when calling 911, majority of them being combat trained.  In the work place it's called "lean" and "continuous improvement".   I sure as hell won't support putting police in dangerous situation's, but every situation shouldn't be treated as dangerous.
Disagree. My EMT buddies have told me about the times theyve had guns and knives pulled on them while doing a call. Every situation where you as a cop are pulled into should be considered dangerous. 99% of the cops out there are decent humans. its figuring out who the scumbags are and getting rid of them. 
I'd say that number's a little high. Most I've encountered have been cool. But I personally only know two cops. One is a cousin I've known all my life and the other is a friend of a friend I've been on camping trips with. Both are kinda douches with big chips on their shoulders. 

Now, since I always make fun of people who use anecdotes to support a point, I won't say that means anything. But I do wonder what kind of person wants to be a cop in the first place. 

Do they want to protect and serve their communities? The money? The pension? Do they think the uniform is sexy? I suspect many of them crave the power, the authority...and that's a dangerous thing, because someone who desires power and authority is exactly the kind of person you don't want having it. 
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#15
Disbanding?? Terrible idea. 
Also so I'd like to add. It's so sad to see what happened in the city I loved living in. Well till December anyhow. I lived in NE Minneapolis for several years before I moved south. I loved the downtown life back then and that city had a great one as I remember.
They can't repeal without a replace. That never works.
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#16
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Do they want to protect and serve their communities? The money? The pension? Do they think the uniform is sexy? I suspect many of them crave the power, the authority...and that's a dangerous thing, because someone who desires power and authority is exactly the kind of person you don't want having it. 
Man, you just described the exact reason I dislike and distrust ALL politicians.
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#17
Might want to peel back that 99% number, that would mean that not only do we have killers in america in the PD, it’s a handful of PD serial killers.

It is an industry (paid for by us btw) that can’t have bad apples, end of story.  If 5% of airplane pilots were bad apples, no one would trust the aviation industry.  

How do we rid of the bad apples?  
(1) Hit the unions in their wallets for bad actors, financial repercussions via liability are mandatory.  No business owner in the US would keep liable risky employees, why do PDs?  No punishment.

(2) longer training programs, it’s remarkable how easy it is to become a cop in America while our counterparts take years, not weeks.  

(3) end the 1033 program, we need more people who want to be Andy Griffith not Call of Duty Superstars.  This America, not fucking Fallujah

(4) End the war on cannabis.  The amount of people who have been arrested in America, where a portion of the country just considered it an ESSENTIAL business, is disgusting.  More arrests means more need for cops right?  That’s how they pitch it to their municipalities when discussing budget needs.  End that offense period.  The War on Drugs has been a disgusting failure on all levels
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#18
Minneapolis business owners: Fix, don't scrap, police department'There needs to be a fix to this,' business owners agree, but there's little support for disbanding the department.
By  Jeffrey Meitrodt Star TribuneJune 11, 2020 — 3:56pm

Small business owners in Minneapolis who lost everything in the riots don’t want to lose their police department, too. But nobody thinks it should be business as usual, either.That view is shared by large and small companies, according to an informal survey conducted by the Star Tribune, which asked dozens of business owners if they support the recent pledge by a City Council majority to dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department in response to public furor over the death of George Floyd.
“What I feel in my heart, and what millions of people feel, is that there is a young girl without a dad who should still be on the planet,” said restaurant owner Charles Stotts, whose Town Talk Diner & Gastropub was destroyed in the riots. “There needs to be a fix to this, whatever that fix is.”
Jonathan Weinhagen, president & CEO of the Minneapolis Regional Chamber, said the group’s members believe that the city must reach out to “communities of color” and deliver “significant reform” to the department. After years of complaints, the Minnesota Department of Human Rights recently launched an investigation of the department to determine if its officers have engaged in discriminatory practices toward people of color.
“We stand with Chief (Medaria) Arradondo and his efforts to hold officers accountable and dramatically overhaul policing in Minneapolis,” Weinghagen said in a statement. “Businesses are concerned about calls for abolishing or eliminating the police department. We believe it is important to maintain and improve public safety. And the necessary changes for the MPD will take consensus from the community and continual work from leaders across Minneapolis.”
The business community was rattled when nine of 12 council members told protesters in Powerderhorn Park this week that they will soon “begin the process of ending the Minneapolis Police Department.” The announcement came one day after Mayor Jacob Frey told a crowd of protesters he does not support abolishing the MPD.
“We recognize that we don’t have all the answers about what a police-free future looks like, but our community does,” the council members said in a joint statement. “We’re committed to engaging with every willing community member in the City of Minneapolis over the next year to identify what safety looks like for you.”
The nine members offered no details on the proposal, but some business owners seized on the phrase “police-free.”
“I was already kind of fed up with a lot of the lunatic ideas that have come out of the City Council, even before this,” said Don Blyly, who is facing $2 million in losses from the destruction of Uncle Hugo’s and Uncle Edgar’s bookstores on Chicago Avenue. “The police department needs to be fixed. But if they do the kind of things they are talking about now, then I will not rebuild in the city of Minneapolis.”
The council’s lack of specifics is infuriating to many business owners, some of whom accused the council of pandering to the mob.
“They are just looking to please some people,” said Khaled Aloul, owner of two GM Tobacco stores that were heavily damaged during the riots. “We don’t even know what it means: dismantle the police department.”
Like other business owners, Aloul was frustrated when he turned to the police for help during the riots. After looters broke into his store on Lake Street, he said he spotted several officers and asked for help.
“They said we have instructions from the mayor not to interfere,” said Aloul, who lost an estimated $800,000 in tobacco products to looters. “I understand they were overwhelmed, but I think if they had fired off a couple of shots they could have scared people off.”
Despite the experience, Aloul doesn’t like the idea of disbanding the department.
“How do you know the new thing is going to be better?” he asked. “Can you imagine a town without police? Look at what happened when the police didn’t come. The whole area is a disaster. It looks like we had a civil war here.”
Some business owners said they would like to see the department relinquish some duties to others, such as dealing with mentally ill individuals or the homeless. The Minneapolis Downtown Council has recommended that mental health professionals “co-respond” to police calls involving emotionally distraught residents.
Some business owners believe that violent outcomes could be avoided if police were better trained. In Floyd’s case, things spiraled out of control when officers responded to a complaint that Floyd passed a counterfeit $20 bill, a minor crime. The Minneapolis Business Partnership, which represents some of the largest companies in the Twin Cities, has called for increased training on “interactions with African Americans and people of color.”
“Getting rid of crime fighters won’t eliminate crime,” said Charlie Weaver, executive director of the Partnership, whose members include U.S. Bank, Wells Fargo and the Star Tribune. “So we support that crime fighters get good training and that they be held accountable if they exceed the rules.”
The partnership is asking state lawmakers to make it easier to get rid of problem cops, including the repeal of laws requiring binding arbitration for law enforcement officers accused of misconduct. The group also is calling for a change in collective bargaining rules that impede discipline of officers who “seriously betray the public trust.”
Still, that doesn’t go far enough for some business owners.
“I definitely want the city to defund them and start over,” said Ray James, whose Fade Factory Barber Shop on West Broadway was destroyed during the rioting. “I think we need to start letting people from our community police our own community, because we all love each other and we kind of know the problem people. And sometimes, problem people ain’t really problem people."
https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-...571195292/
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#19
disbanding and defunding

these are dumb words that will hurt the necessary process of needed reform and restructuring
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#20
Disbanding would be a incredibly dumb thing.  Maybe the threat of disbanding got some attention.

https://m.startribune.com/minneapolis-of...571189142/


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