Quote: @Mattyman said:
The last time the Vikings had this kind of salary cap /UFA massive loss cycle was going into 2011.
2011 was doomed when McNabb showed up looking like a jelly doughnut
This time around the cupboard isn't empty
Cousins QB
Cook/Mattison RB
Kendricks/Barr Nickle LB
H Smith/ Harris Safety
Rudy/I Smith TE
Even a purple shaded kool aid drinking Viking homer, like myself , could make the argument those pairings and positions are Top 5? Top 3? in the NFL.
The Vikings have a Oline coach that is known to quickly fix Olines.
Zimmer is known to develop cornerbacks.
And Patterson has developed Dlines.
Add Kubiak as OC and Capers as Defensive specialist and I believe the Vikings scheme wont be as predictable
Theres lots of questions and areas that need to be developed I get it. , but I don't see why the Vikings coaches and new players can't develop into a competitive team
Massive injuries or Covid 19 are the only thing that will derail their 2020 season.
Bingo! still a lot of talent on this team. Both on the field and on the sidelines. Particulary great coaches with young position groups.
Zim will have this group of CBs ready. I guarentee, the CBs perform this year better than last year. If that happens, it will be a good year
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Sure are a lot of folks picking the Vikings. Heck Steve Smith thinks we're the team most likely to challenge the 49ers. Last week, USA Today's sports betting group picked the Vikings to win the North at 12-4. The analytics people at NFL.com ran 100K simulations and the Vikings came out on top. Fansided picks 'em. I think I've seen at least a half dozen other analysts pick the Vikings in recent weeks.
What's going on? Wasn't it just two weeks ago we had a well respected poster get so angry at the "pollyannas" on the board who thought the Vikings might not suck in 2020 that he had to leave the board? And it wasn't because anyone picked the Vikings to win the North or finish with a better record than '19. Nothing crazy like that. It was because a couple people had the nerve to say that it was possible--POSSIBLE, mind you--that the Vikings might not be so bad next year.
I kind of agree with FSU that we're taking a step back to move two steps forward in 2021 by jettisoning some veterans and inserting a bunch of youth. Where I get lost in his argument is that this isn't a rebuild IMO... it's retooling while we're still a very competitive team.
This team has too much veteran talent to not even be in the playoff mix... especially when the NFL is adding a 7th playoff team. I think the Vikings are still one of the top 7 teams in the conference in terms of talent and coaching.
We have a lot of young guys in Irv, Hughes, Hill, Boyd, Samia, and some of these rookies who may get opportunities to start... but that shouldn't be scary, it should be exciting. I don't get why we cast aside some of these guys because they didn't supplant a starter as a rookie. Development is a good thing, especially when you can afford to let your Day 2 and 3 picks have a season or two to hone their skills, get better, and hopefully be ready when it is their turn.
The only spots on the team that worry me are our interior OL and our pass rush. We need to get better at those spots considering we lost some pass rushers and our interior OL got man handled by any team with a pair of good DTs. Time for Zim to coach em up because we still have the pieces to be a good team this year and an even better team in 2021.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
Honest question...am I the only one who is more worried about Barr and the other LB position over the corners? Barr has been below average the last couple of years and I'm nervous this year wont be any better with the other DT position up for grabs. Overall I still think the defense will be fine, just worried about the LB group as a whole.
I am not worried about the LBers much. I think it’s a solid group with Kendricks, Barr, Wilson, Gideon and the new draftee Dye. Now I don’t think Barr is worth his salary-maybe with Capers on board he will be used more rushing the passer which was one of his best traits coming out of UCLA.
I am definitely more worried about the CBs. Not that they were world beaters, but we did lose our top 3 CBs from the past few years. How many teams have gone through that? I think it’s going to be rough sledding for our new CB group.
I am also worried about our DLine. Losing Griffin and Weatherly will hurt. I like Ifeadi, but I don’t think Wonnum and Lynch will be able to fill those shoes immediately. So if we can’t rush the passer like last year and we have younger, less experienced CBs on the back end......that could spell big trouble. Here’s hoping that Zim and Capers can scheme up some different looks On D this year.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
Honest question...am I the only one who is more worried about Barr and the other LB position over the corners? Barr has been below average the last couple of years and I'm nervous this year wont be any better with the other DT position up for grabs. Overall I still think the defense will be fine, just worried about the LB group as a whole.
I actually really like Barr most of the time, and Kendricks is an All-Pro talent. Between Wilson/Gedeon/or a surprise as the third man, I think the LBs are fine.
DL is by far the biggest concern for me. Griffen, Weatherly, and Joseph were good players. The cupboard isn't totally bare but we're going to be asking a lot from Pierce. He's on a new team, with a short offseason, and he has a track record of weight issues and has been quarantining for 2 months, like the rest of us. There's some yellow-if-not-red flags here. Our other interior options are rookies and 3rd-stringers. I'm much comfier with the LBs than the front 4.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Sure are a lot of folks picking the Vikings. Heck Steve Smith thinks we're the team most likely to challenge the 49ers. Last week, USA Today's sports betting group picked the Vikings to win the North at 12-4. The analytics people at NFL.com ran 100K simulations and the Vikings came out on top. Fansided picks 'em. I think I've seen at least a half dozen other analysts pick the Vikings in recent weeks.
What's going on? Wasn't it just two weeks ago we had a well respected poster get so angry at the "pollyannas" on the board who thought the Vikings might not suck in 2020 that he had to leave the board? And it wasn't because anyone picked the Vikings to win the North or finish with a better record than '19. Nothing crazy like that. It was because a couple people had the nerve to say that it was possible--POSSIBLE, mind you--that the Vikings might not be so bad next year.
I kind of agree with FSU that we're taking a step back to move two steps forward in 2021 by jettisoning some veterans and inserting a bunch of youth. Where I get lost in his argument is that this isn't a rebuild IMO... it's retooling while we're still a very competitive team.
This team has too much veteran talent to not even be in the playoff mix... especially when the NFL is adding a 7th playoff team. I think the Vikings are still one of the top 7 teams in the conference in terms of talent and coaching.
We have a lot of young guys in Irv, Hughes, Hill, Boyd, Samia, and some of these rookies who may get opportunities to start... but that shouldn't be scary, it should be exciting. I don't get why we cast aside some of these guys because they didn't supplant a starter as a rookie. Development is a good thing, especially when you can afford to let your Day 2 and 3 picks have a season or two to hone their skills, get better, and hopefully be ready when it is their turn.
The only spots on the team that worry me are our interior OL and our pass rush. We need to get better at those spots considering we lost some pass rushers and our interior OL got man handled by any team with a pair of good DTs. Time for Zim to coach em up because we still have the pieces to be a good team this year and an even better team in 2021. Balanced take.
I think it's obvious we're going to take a step back in three areas. WR, RDE and CB. And I put them in that order.
Justin Jefferson was my favorite WR in the draft, but he's not going to strike fear into the hearts of defensive coordinators the way Diggs did. Until JJ can prove he can hurt defenses, Thielen's going to get a lot of attention. That could hurt.
I also think people are discounting how much we're going to miss Everson Griffen. IO is promising, but he ain't Everson. That's going to force Hunter into a lot more double teams. That could hurt a lot, too.
We'll also have three rookie corners on our roster, but this doesn't concern me as much as the above. Rhodes was god-awful last year. Waynes only slightly better. The one we'll miss the most is Mac Alexander, but I sort of think that Hughes could be the one who replaces him inside (with Hill, Dantzler and Gladney competing outside). Not sure how it will break down, but I don't think this will be the massive downgrade that people think. Others talk about rookies not getting the pre-season development they'll need, and that's possible, but it's also possible that our two starting corners aren't rookies at all, but 3rd year players, Hughes and Holton Hill.
Now, FSU, and others like him, stop there because they lead sad, pathetic lives and can't have anything nice (kidding!). But it's true they tend not to consider areas where we could actually IMPROVE. NT for example. Linval was a good player for us. Three years ago. He was terrible last year. Michael Pierce is an upgrade from Linval-19.
Another upgrade should be IDL pass rush. Stephen was a disciplined player, but offered nothing in the pass rush. He will be replaced by a pass rusher. I don't know whether it will be Lynch or Watts or whoever, but it will be a pass rusher, a label no one would use for Shamar Stephen.
TE should be better. TEs struggle to have any kind of impact as rookies. By rookie TE standards, ISJ had a great rookie season. He is going to be huge for us in '20, and might even take more heat off of Thielen than Jefferson does.
A few more areas I see getting better are Cousins (3rd year in system, better protection), Kubiak (philosophy and execution connected), OL (particularly Bradbury, O'Neal and whoever among Reiff or Cleveland starts at LG).
Will we take the North? Hell if I know. Too early to say. But I'll say it again at the risk of pissing everyone off. It's possible.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
Honest question...am I the only one who is more worried about Barr and the other LB position over the corners? Barr has been below average the last couple of years and I'm nervous this year wont be any better with the other DT position up for grabs. Overall I still think the defense will be fine, just worried about the LB group as a whole.
I actually really like Barr most of the time, and Kendricks is an All-Pro talent. Between Wilson/Gedeon/or a surprise as the third man, I think the LBs are fine.
DL is by far the biggest concern for me. Griffen, Weatherly, and Joseph were good players. The cupboard isn't totally bare but we're going to be asking a lot from Pierce. He's on a new team, with a short offseason, and he has a track record of weight issues and has been quarantining for 2 months, like the rest of us. There's some yellow-if-not-red flags here. Our other interior options are rookies and 3rd-stringers. I'm much comfier with the LBs than the front 4.
I understand the concern for DL as well, but Barr graded pretty poorly last year and hasnt really graded that well since his awesome 2015 season. Kendricks is obviously great, but Barr cannot cover at all and that worries me. I like Wilson's athleticism but he's still pretty young so I'm nervous because i feel we only have one good player in our LB group. I hope that changes this year and hopefully Barr has been working on quickness
1-6-1 against the Bears and Packers last couple years. Division champs? Doubt it. Go ahead and crown 'em if you like a team that lost 4 in a row to Mitch Trubisky.
Vikings won 10 games last year. That didn't win the division. How is Minnesota better than 10 wins this year? They lost Stefon Diggs. Lost a bunch of players on D. See the logic? The winner of the NFCN last year went to the NFCC game. What have the Vikings done to leapfrog them?
It is homerism. But the team has talent for sure. And that's why they play the games. But there's a handful of posters here that every year overvalue the Vikings and undervalue the Packers. Like clockwork regardless. I'm not saying Minnesota can't win the NFCN, I'm saying the odds are against it.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
Vikings won 10 games last year. That didn't win the division. How is Minnesota better than 10 wins this year? They lost Stefon Diggs. Lost a bunch of players on D. See the logic? The winner of the NFCN last year went to the NFCC game. What have the Vikings done to leapfrog them?
It is homerism. But the team has talent for sure. And that's why they play the games. But there's a handful of posters here that every year overvalue the Vikings and undervalue the Packers. Like clockwork regardless. I'm not saying Minnesota can't win the NFCN, I'm saying the odds are against it.
I understand your logic, but also remember the Packers were playing teams who finished third in their division last year while the Vikes were playing teams who finished second. This year, the Packers are now playing teams who finished first, making this year a lot tougher for them. The Vikes schedule is definitely a tough one this year, but Green Bay's schedule is going to be quite difficult. One way the Vikes have improved is we don't have a bottom feeder starting for us at corner in Rhodes. Sure, we lost Diggs, but Irv will greatly improve, hopefully Thielen is healthy all year, and then Jefferson steps up along with Bisi and others.
Our division has had a different winner in three straight years...let's play the games first.
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