True leadership

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:
Here PF,  this pretty much sums it up...

True in many ways...

That said, (as much as I grew-up a conservative republican in my younger years)  its a clear choice for me today for which party best represents my own personal values and priorities...

I was a republican as well. Voted for Reagan in '84. I stopped being a republican when it started taking its cues from asshats like Rush Limbaugh in the 90s. Since then it's become a caricature of itself. The Democratic Party is not without its flaws, but at least it's not home to juvenile Trumpism, antiscience and white nationalism. Comparing the two parties like the meme above, as if the Dems are just as bad, is fucking ridiculous. 

I went along the opposite path.  I used to be more aligned with the anti-war
liberals against the Bush Jr. regime, which led me into the world of conspiracies,
and then the democrats went astray.  So
now I feel like I’m some bizarre combination of progressive (for change),
anti-establishment, and with conservative values.  The left fully lost me a while ago.  I just am incompatible with their guilt and
shame strategies.  I just don’t need
people who don’t know me telling me all the different ways I’m bad based on my
race and gender.  I think there’s a lot
in the modern day left that is the same as the religious right from the Bush
era.  There’s a lot of elitism, tribalism,
and we know what’s right for you, etc. that I can’t stand for the life of
me.  I used to think that conservatives
never travelled outside the USA and this stunted their worldviews, but now I
think liberals have never left the city or worked a hard job.


I just don’t understand how liberals can look at how
ineffective our government is, but then beg them to install more restrictions
on everyone they don’t like.  I don’t
like the hypocrisy of the left.  It’s
just way too obvious.  Trump can’t talk
about grabbing women by the pussy, but then Biden is accused by a women of him
literally grabbing her by the pussy, and it’s like their brain blanks out the
whole discussion.  They’ve tried to
establish themselves as the moral high ground, just like the religious right
did year ago, but then they ignore it any time it happens to their team.
I don't think republicans are great, but they're at least 4 years ahead of the democrats in their quest towards doing the will of their constituents.  The Democrats have spent that whole time just being anti-Trump, and it's cost them everything.

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@MaroonBells said:

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:
Here PF,  this pretty much sums it up...

True in many ways...

That said, (as much as I grew-up a conservative republican in my younger years)  its a clear choice for me today for which party best represents my own personal values and priorities...

I was a republican as well. Voted for Reagan in '84. I stopped being a republican when it started taking its cues from asshats like Rush Limbaugh in the 90s. Since then it's become a caricature of itself. The Democratic Party is not without its flaws, but at least it's not home to juvenile Trumpism, antiscience and white nationalism. Comparing the two parties like the meme above, as if the Dems are just as bad, is fucking ridiculous. 

The left fully lost me a while ago.  I just am incompatible with their guilt and
shame strategies.  I just don’t need
people who don’t know me telling me all the different ways I’m bad based on my
race and gender. 

Sounds like you needed therapy more than a new political party. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@medaille said:

@MaroonBells said:

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:
Here PF,  this pretty much sums it up...

True in many ways...

That said, (as much as I grew-up a conservative republican in my younger years)  its a clear choice for me today for which party best represents my own personal values and priorities...

I was a republican as well. Voted for Reagan in '84. I stopped being a republican when it started taking its cues from asshats like Rush Limbaugh in the 90s. Since then it's become a caricature of itself. The Democratic Party is not without its flaws, but at least it's not home to juvenile Trumpism, antiscience and white nationalism. Comparing the two parties like the meme above, as if the Dems are just as bad, is fucking ridiculous. 

The left fully lost me a while ago.  I just am incompatible with their guilt and
shame strategies.  I just don’t need
people who don’t know me telling me all the different ways I’m bad based on my
race and gender. 

Sounds like you needed therapy more than a new political party. 

I didn't get a new political party.  I have no political party.  I don't need a political party, because I can think for myself.  I know you think that only the republicans are racist and sexist, but you just can't smell your own shit.  Everyone else can.

[Guest]

@SFVikeFan said:
Havoc nearly everything you wrote is a fairy tale of bullshit and utter lies.

Read the Mueller report, it debunks most of the nonsense you wrote.

I’m not sure if you were the one who about 6 months ago went on a long ass rant about the DNC wasn’t hacked because the download speeds were too fast and no way it was Russians because it had to have been an inside job? 

Except that whole fucking lie was debunked by Mueller Report?

- DNC was hacked, and it was the Russians, not some inside job.  It was proven.  Read Mueller Report.

You need to keep up with the declassification news.  Per the declassified records via Shifty Schiff's committee hearings:  
Under oath, the head of Crowdstrike (Henry) admitted they had NO CONCRETE EVIDENCE of a Russian hack.  
Henry personally led the remediation and forensics analysis of the DNC server after being warned of a breach in late April 2016; his work was paid for by the DNC, which refused to turn over its server to the FBI. Asked for the date when alleged Russian hackers stole data from the DNC server, Henry testified that CrowdStrike did not in fact know if such a theft occurred at all: "We did not have concrete evidence that the data was exfiltrated [moved electronically] from the DNC, but we have indicators that it was exfiltrated," Henry said.
Henry reiterated his claim on multiple occasions: 

• "There are times when we can see data exfiltrated, and we can say conclusively. But in this case it appears it was set up to be exfiltrated, but we just don’t have the evidence that says it actually left."

• "There’s not evidence that they were actually exfiltrated. There's circumstantial evidence but no evidence that they were actually exfiltrated."

• "There is circumstantial evidence that that data was exfiltrated off the network. … We didn't have a sensor in place that saw data leave. We said that the data left based on the circumstantial evidence. That was the conclusion that we made."

• "Sir, I was just trying to be factually accurate, that we didn't see the data leave, but we believe it left, based on what we saw."
• Asked directly if he could "unequivocally say" whether "it was or was not exfiltrated out of DNC," Henry told the committee: "I can't say based on that." 

Henry’s recently released testimony does not mean that Russia did not hack the DNC. What it does make clear is that Obama administration officials, the DNC and others have misled the public by presenting as fact information that they knew was uncertain.  The fact that the Democratic Party employed the two private firms that generated the core allegations at the heart of Russiagate -- Russian email hacking and Trump-Russia collusion – suggests that the federal investigation was compromised from the start.

What would have been nice, is if the DNC had turned over the servers to the FBI to begin with.  Wonder why they didn't?  


- Flynn got caught talking to Russians, the ambassador - who we ALWAYS surveil.  True.  The FBI showed someone was talking to the Russian ambassador on the SAME DAY OBAMA PUT SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA FOR ELECTION INTERFERENCE, FLYNN CALLED THEM - but had no title and no role in our government at the time - a violation of the Logan Act.  That is FACT.

Flynn was the incoming NSA.  It is wholly proper/time-honored for incoming admin's to correspond to foreign leaders.  Actually, that was one of his LEGAL DUTIES.  
Violation of the Logan Act?  LOL.  200 yo statute prosecuted twice...lost twice and last 120 yrs ago.  Why?  Deemed unconstitutional.  
Were you similarly outraged when recent Americans ventured out into foreign relations, on 'their own'?  
Americans such as Jesse Jackson, Danny Glover, Sean Penn, Dennis Rodman, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry?  
Indeed, the Logan Act was used by Yates as a 'predicate' for the suspect FBI interview of Flynn...but was not included in the final 'charges'.  



That is how Flynn ended up being unmasked and for damn good reason.  

Unmasking by itself is not a crime, when done properly. 
What was egregious was the sheer volume/number of Flynn requests (by Obama-ites)  for unmasking.  Unprecedented. 
& what crossed the line was the leaking of the unmasked material to a news-agency.  A felony sentence @ minimum 10 years.  
ONE (at least) of the unmaskers is a FELON.  We know what the FBI can do to Flynn...how is the FBI coming on the felony leaker investigation?  Mr Wray?  

Why is Flynn so eager to let Russia off the hook after Russia helped Trump win the election??   Answer that one.  Entrapment my ass, being a traitor is more like it.

Why did the first set of FBI investigators (after the first Flynn interview) conclude that Flynn WAS NOT LYING....suggested to CLOSE THE CASE?  
Only to have agent Strzok revive the investigation 3 weeks later, after receiving that directive "from the 7th floor" (leadership) of the FBI?  
THEN, re-"invite" Flynn back for a casual voluntary subsequent interview ("you can have counsel, but really just a chat")....which led to indictment?  
BTW, calling an honorably-served 3-star General a "traitor", from the cheap seats?  That takes some chutzpah.  

- Flynn had multiple chances to come clean about discussing sanctions with Russia’s ambassador before Trump was sworn in and lied about it.  That’s a crime - both the discussion of sanctions as a private citizen AND lying to the FBI about the conversation.  Stop supporting traitorous pieces of shit and blaming Obama for trying to protect the country from Russian interference while Republicans are eager to welcome their help.

[Guest]

@SFVikeFan said:

Let me ask you this:

You are being tabbed to be the next Director of National Security for the USA.


Why do you need a lawyer to talk to the FBI?  Why would you lie to the FBI in the first place?  

Are you kidding me?  What is the FBI's charter?  They investigate crimes.  Isn't the better question, "why would anyone talk to the FBI, WITHOUT a lawyer?"  
It's well-established that Flynn agreed to "the lie" after his son was threatened with prosecution, if he didn't plea, as pumpf mentioned earlier.    
A plea deal Flynn's first team of lawyers/FBI  kept hidden from the court.  


Unless you have something to hide ... which tells me you’re completely unfit for the job to begin with, unless you’re joining the most corrupt administration in history, then it seems more like a prerequisite ...

Conversely, why would a 3-star General agree with two voluntary, non-protocol sit-downs with the FBI (sans counsel), if he DID "have something to hide"?  
When Bill Clinton was deposed by prosecutors, he had his attorney present (David Kendall).  Why would a POTUS need an attorney?  Especially when he (Clinton) is one, himself?  
Flynn isn't a lawyer, he's a warrior.  



Can someone please answer:  
1). When we discovered Russians helped Trump win by interfering in our elections, why were Republicans so eager to dismiss the sanctions that Obama put in place in retaliation for the interference? 

     Repubs aren't allowed a "Re-Set"?   B) 
     https://images.app.goo.gl/fBwfkYcYVqw5NmE67

2). And why now won’t Republicans do anything to safeguard this election?  

     OK, let's make voter ID mandatory!  

[Guest]

3 liberals/civil libertarians, I can agree/have a beer/have honest disagreements  with.  
(maybe this belongs in the 'all or nothing' thread.)

SFVF, you won't listen to me.  But maybe listen to your fellow travelers, that never voted/would vote for Trump.  

Dersh,  Taibbi, and Turley.  Fellow libs that never voted for Trump, all 3.  But still recognize & believe in  civil liberties/justice, uber alles.  





https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2...212869002/

[Guest]

@purplefaithful said:
It's a shame team blue cannot come-up with better candidates than what they've put forward this time and Hilary too.

Someone who can appeal to those "in the middle" and some of the Bernie bros and Trump base. 

I dont think Biden is that candidate and its going to be the swing-states that will decide the electoral vote. Places like No. Carolina etc.

There's an imbecile currently in the Whitehouse. I'm pretty sure anyone not recommending huffing Clorox would be an upgrade.

But, maybe that's just me.

[Guest]

@savannahskol said:
3 liberals/civil libertarians, I can agree/have a beer/have honest disagreements  with.  
(maybe this belongs in the 'all or nothing' thread.)

SFVF, you won't listen to me.  But maybe listen to your fellow travelers, that never voted/would vote for Trump.  

Dersh,  Taibbi, and Turley.  Fellow libs that never voted for Trump, all 3.  But still recognize & believe in  civil liberties/justice, uber alles.  





https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2...212869002/

Your insistence on calling Dershowitz a liberal is comical.  He can label himself a liberal on Fox News so they can all pretend to have an opposing ideology under the guise of fair and balanced but he’s not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination.  

Jonathan Turley is a joke.  I read that article he wrote in the last week and it’s a trash-heap Op-Ed.  

Posting videos ofnpartisan dingbats sharing their biased opinions does not sway me in the least or help your cause.

[Guest]

@SFVikeFan said:


Your insistence on calling Dershowitz a liberal is comical.  He can label himself a liberal on Fox News so they can all pretend to have an opposing ideology under the guise of fair and balanced.

Reminds me of when Fox used to trot out Dick Morris to provide a view from the "other side." LOL

[Guest]

Thank you, Mark Cuban. Been saying this about Trump, in fact most conservatives, for years. The party of self-reliance has turned into the victim party. White victimization, the war on Christmas, the war on Christianity (aka persecution), the War on Easter, conservative college students needing "safe" spaces.  Trump plays this group like a fiddle. 

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/12632851...93184?s=20