Just a little devils advocate:
LT - Reiff most of us think is average and some think below average. I am in the average scale. Cleveland is a rookie who plays the most difficult position on the OL at LT. He played in the Mountain West so not a powerhouse conference. He may not be ready to start until late this year or maybe after. Probably needs to gain some weight.
LG - Elflein - below average and not on a positive trend. A. Collins has appeared in 2 games over the years. Missed all of 2018 with preseason injury. Was injured a lot in college as well.
C - Bradburry - most analyst indicate Bradburry had an average rookie year. I thought Elflein had a better rookie year at Center and then the injury bug sent him into a spiral.
RG - Dozier - played in all 16 games for us last season with 4 starts. We cut Kline who started most of the season with a few missed for injuries. Samia appeared in 2 games last year as a rookie.
RT - O'Neill - I think is an above average RT but some think just average. R. Hill a good veteran swing tackle who can fill in at either R or L. Udoh a 6th rounder last year appeared in 1 game last year.
Sprinkle in some of our late rounders this year and I just don't see a OL that is even average. Reiff is another year older, and also was not a very good Guard 4 years ago with the Lions, Cleveland might not be ready, Elf needs to be replaced, Bradburry needs to progress in year 2, Dozier is a vet but could not beat out Kline who we cut, is Samia ready after having a few good snap highlights against the Bears, and RT with O'Neill and Hill is all set and above average with a chance to be really good if O'Neill keeps taking steps.
I think we should be looking very hard at any veteran Guards that are cut. Warford, I'm told mostly on here, may not be a perfect fit for our ZBS but I am pretty sure the Saints played some ZBS over his 3 years and he was an all pro all 3 years which is 3 more than the rest of the OL. We have about 12.5 million in cap space. I would like it spent on the interior OL.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
What if Gabe Jackson from the Raiders becomes available? Would there be any takers, he's a potential cut and a true left guard.
I think we're done, honestly. If Collins is ready to start, we wouldn't want Jackson delaying his development. Same with Kline. Between Reiff, Elflein, Collins, Dozier, Samia, and Udoh, Vikings probably think they have enough competition to forge a couple of pretty good starters.
Of course, that may not be the case. It's possible that we won't find a player worthy of starting. But I don't think we'll bring in a vet until we know that. Vikings probably don't want to be forced to cut a young, promising player like Collins or Udoh to bring in a stop gap.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ BigAl99 said:
What if Gabe Jackson from the Raiders becomes available? Would there be any takers, he's a potential cut and a true left guard.
I think we're done, honestly. If Collins is ready to start, we wouldn't want Jackson delaying his development. Same with Kline. Between Reiff, Elflein, Collins, Dozier, Samia, and Udoh, Vikings probably think they have enough competition to forge a couple of pretty good starters.
Of course, that may not be the case. It's possible that we won't find a player worthy of starting. But I don't think we'll bring in a vet until we know that. Vikings probably don't want to be forced to cut a young, promising player like Collins or Udoh to bring in a stop gap. I just can't count Collins as part of our guard solution. He has appeared in 2 regular season games and has been injured mostly the rest in 3 seasons. He was also an injury risk coming out of college. Udoh is a Tackle who appeared in that meaningless Bears game along with our other supposed starting Guard Samia. I think we are pretty good at Tackle if Cleveland develops as expected. It is the Guard's that are the BIG problem and question mark - IMO. Your probably right Maroon but I don't want to wait until we see how things shake-out and then react late into the preseason to then scramble and pick up scraps.
Elflein needs to backup if even that. Collins needs to get out of the tent. Samia has about 3 great highlight plays and a few miscues in the only game he appeared in vs the meaningless Bears. Dozier is a decent vet that could not beat out Kline who we cut.
I just want our little remaining resources focused at Guard. I am extremely surprised that we did not address earlier in the draft (meaning late 3rd or 4th round). Obviously we valued other players over that position and the coaches now way more then any of us. But as an armchair analyst I am very worried about our interior OL. Bradbury wasn't exactly lights out either. Our interior was manhandled by teams with a good interior DL. Of course the 49'ers but they are not alone. Both interior OL and DL were played with vs the 49'ers.
Again, I would make a play for Warford. I don't expect a 3X pro bowl Guard to become available again who is 28 years old. He would allow the odds of the mix of Samia, Dozier, Collins to fight and develop for the other Guard position. It would be nice to have one side of the OL set for years to come.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ BigAl99 said:
What if Gabe Jackson from the Raiders becomes available? Would there be any takers, he's a potential cut and a true left guard.
I think we're done, honestly. If Collins is ready to start, we wouldn't want Jackson delaying his development. Same with Kline. Between Reiff, Elflein, Collins, Dozier, Samia, and Udoh, Vikings probably think they have enough competition to forge a couple of pretty good starters.
Of course, that may not be the case. It's possible that we won't find a player worthy of starting. But I don't think we'll bring in a vet until we know that. Vikings probably don't want to be forced to cut a young, promising player like Collins or Udoh to bring in a stop gap. I just can't count Collins as part of our guard solution. He has appeared in 2 regular season games and has been injured mostly the rest in 3 seasons. He was also an injury risk coming out of college. Udoh is a Tackle who appeared in that meaningless Bears game along with our other supposed starting Guard Samia. I think we are pretty good at Tackle if Cleveland develops as expected. It is the Guard's that are the BIG problem and question mark - IMO. Your probably right Maroon but I don't want to wait until we see how things shake-out and then react late into the preseason to then scramble and pick up scraps.
Elflein needs to backup if even that. Collins needs to get out of the tent. Samia has about 3 great highlight plays and a few miscues in the only game he appeared in vs the meaningless Bears. Dozier is a decent vet that could not beat out Kline who we cut.
I just want our little remaining resources focused at Guard. I am extremely surprised that we did not address earlier in the draft (meaning late 3rd or 4th round). Obviously we valued other players over that position and the coaches now way more then any of us. But as an armchair analyst I am very worried about our interior OL. Bradbury wasn't exactly lights out either. Our interior was manhandled by teams with a good interior DL. Of course the 49'ers but they are not alone. Both interior OL and DL were played with vs the 49'ers.
Again, I would make a play for Warford. I don't expect a 3X pro bowl Guard to become available again who is 28 years old. He would allow the odds of the mix of Samia, Dozier, Collins to fight and develop for the other Guard position. It would be nice to have one side of the OL set for years to come.
I think the only guard we might consider is Kline, and only then if one of the following happens: 1. Cleveland beats out Reiff at LT (the calculation being that Kline would be as good if not better than Reiff at LG, and we could save $8M or so by cutting Reiff. Hill is a good backup. 2. Collins gets hurt again or just isn't ready. 3. Elflein doesn't improve at all and his released.
The most improvement we're going to see from the OL in '20 is probably going to be at center and right tackle. Those two guys should improve a lot in their 2nd and 3rd seasons, respectively. Samia (or possibly Udoh) is your RG. That should be an upgrade as well, although there could be growing pains. I keep hearing that we should've drafted a guard in the 3rd or 4th round this year. It seems people would have more confidence in the middle round guard we didn't take this year (in a bad IOL class), than the one we did take last year (in a good IOL class).
There are 2 questions to answer:
1.Are the Vikings interested in Warford?
2.Will Warford play for what the Vikings have in cap room?
The Vikings waiting until 2 picks before Mister Irrelevant to draft a guard indicates "No" to #1.
Warford being a 3-time Pro Bowler in his prime at 28 makes #2 unlikely as well. He'll deservedly want to be one of the highest paid guards and the Vikings don't have the room for that.
Dare to dream, but don't hold your breath for it.
Well, I understand there's less major bleeding with Warford.
Warford is 28 (29 next month) and has been let go by 2 teams. Not saying he's horrible, but...why?
Quote: @StickyBun said:
Warford is 28 (29 next month) and has been let go by 2 teams. Not saying he's horrible, but...why?
First team - Lions - can't develop players
Second team - Saints - can develop players and are very very tight against the Cap = needed space. They drafted Ruiz in the first round and project him at Guard and can't afford first round capital + plus Warford. They also have a couple of other Guards prospects in development.
Quote: @RS Express said:
There are 2 questions to answer:
1.Are the Vikings interested in Warford?
2.Will Warford play for what the Vikings have in cap room?
The Vikings waiting until 2 picks before Mister Irrelevant to draft a guard indicates "No" to #1.
Warford being a 3-time Pro Bowler in his prime at 28 makes #2 unlikely as well. He'll deservedly want to be one of the highest paid guards and the Vikings don't have the room for that.
Dare to dream, but don't hold your breath for it.
Read today that Warford wants about the same money he was supposed to get - around 7 or 8 million. We have 12.3 space right now. I would look very hard at Warford and then maybe cut Elf which would save around 2 million. So solidify one Guard spot with a youngish Pro Bowler for about 8. Space: 12.3 - less 8 + 2 = 6.3 remaining.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ RS Express said:
There are 2 questions to answer:
1.Are the Vikings interested in Warford?
2.Will Warford play for what the Vikings have in cap room?
The Vikings waiting until 2 picks before Mister Irrelevant to draft a guard indicates "No" to #1.
Warford being a 3-time Pro Bowler in his prime at 28 makes #2 unlikely as well. He'll deservedly want to be one of the highest paid guards and the Vikings don't have the room for that.
Dare to dream, but don't hold your breath for it.
Read today that Warford wants about the same money he was supposed to get - around 7 or 8 million. We have 12.3 space right now. I would look very hard at Warford and then maybe cut Elf which would save around 2 million. So solidify one Guard spot with a youngish Pro Bowler for about 8. Space: 12.3 - less 8 + 2 = 6.3 remaining.
how much of the $13.77 million in rookie contracts will end up counting against the cap?
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