Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
Warford has some NFL starts under his belt at left guard and even left tackle. So it's not like the left side is completely new for him.
The Saints started running zone blocking concepts 6 years ago.
This is what Saints Wire had to say after signing Devine Ozigbo:
He flourished in an offense that leaned heavily on outside zone blocking, which the Saints also use to great effectiveness.
I wouldn't mind seeing Kline resigned, but that hasn't happened yet and may not. Rieff's cap hit next year is a big problem.
Ezra Cleveland is one of the strongest guys in his class and Boise State runs a similar system. He is one of our top 5 OL right now!
It doesn't make sense to start Cleveland at left guard for one year? Or does it?
I will admit Warford is probably not the answer,.. but the Vikings have a couple question marks on the OL that need answered.
I guess I will just need to be patient.
You say Cleveland is one of the strongest in this class, yet, iirc, so many predraft analysis of him talked about the need to add core strength to play at the next level, suggesting that he is not yet strong enough for the NFL.
The Vikes are currently under their cap with enough to cover their draft picks and then some, Reiffs contract is only an issue for those that think there is a better answer at LT on the roster or somebody that can come in and do the job better for less, I havent seen that player yet. Hes still the second best OL we have on the roster and plays the most important position outside of QB in the game..
With 30, Cleveland had the most bench reps among all the tackles at the combine. Of course it takes more than pecs to manage Za'darius Smith and Khalil Mack.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
Warford has some NFL starts under his belt at left guard and even left tackle. So it's not like the left side is completely new for him.
The Saints started running zone blocking concepts 6 years ago.
This is what Saints Wire had to say after signing Devine Ozigbo:
He flourished in an offense that leaned heavily on outside zone blocking, which the Saints also use to great effectiveness.
I wouldn't mind seeing Kline resigned, but that hasn't happened yet and may not. Rieff's cap hit next year is a big problem.
Ezra Cleveland is one of the strongest guys in his class and Boise State runs a similar system. He is one of our top 5 OL right now!
It doesn't make sense to start Cleveland at left guard for one year? Or does it?
I will admit Warford is probably not the answer,.. but the Vikings have a couple question marks on the OL that need answered.
I guess I will just need to be patient.
You say Cleveland is one of the strongest in this class, yet, iirc, so many predraft analysis of him talked about the need to add core strength to play at the next level, suggesting that he is not yet strong enough for the NFL.
The Vikes are currently under their cap with enough to cover their draft picks and then some, Reiffs contract is only an issue for those that think there is a better answer at LT on the roster or somebody that can come in and do the job better for less, I havent seen that player yet. Hes still the second best OL we have on the roster and plays the most important position outside of QB in the game..
Yes, I'm seeing those evaluations.
Lance Zierlein NFL Analyst:
Athletic left tackle able to make all outside zone blocks in the run game, but in dire need of additional mass and functional strength. Tape work can be tricky as Cleveland suffered a turf toe injury in his second game of the 2019 season and was unable to practice for much of the year. Issues anchoring and redirecting edge pressure are independent from his injury, but determining the impact of that injury on his play is challenging. He plays with patience and technique but lacks base width and contact balance. Cleveland has the athleticism to play swing tackle for a zone-based offense but needs to get much stronger to hold up as a starter.
Cleveland checks in at 310 pounds and was the #1 OL in 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle. Was #3 in the 40 and #5 in the bench. He checks all the boxes and looked very good at the Senior bowl.
Jimmy keep in mind, functional strength seen on tape has a lot to do with technique. I have heard that a turf toe injury can be very painful. Cleveland did not practice all season yet still played in the games. Coaches rarely allow that to happen. Most coaches have a rule of thumb... if you can't practice you can't play!
I don't know that much about Cleveland,.. but I think if Brian O'Neil could step in and start as an NFL rookie, I see no reason why Cleveland can't do the same.
Now, even though Cleveland has never played guard, many analysts project him as a very good starting caliber guard at the next level.
My problem with that is he has great lateral quickness and is a very good pass blocker against speed rushers, plus 33 3/8 arms (all the traits you look for in a left tackle). The Vikings drafted him as a tackle, have him listed as a tackle on the official roster... and he was unquestionably ranked as a top 50 tackle prospect.
Yet our #1 need right now is probably to "improve" our pass blocking at left guard. IMO, Rieff, Kline and Cleveland can answer that problem in the short term (which the Vikings might do in an abbreviated offseason), but are those options (at left guard) good for the Vikings over the long haul looking forward to the next three or four years? Keep in mind those three guys have not really been focused on the left guard spot.
Jimmy who would your starting five be right now?
Vikings did not even bother addressing the guard position in the draft until the 7th round when they took an FCS left tackle, Kyle Hinton.
It's hard to imagine they are interested in any free agent to be honest.
I fear that they actually believe they are SET at guard for the upcoming season.
I would really want us to kick the tires on Warford. Our interior OL improvement was our biggest need going into and now coming out of the draft - IMO. Bradburry was an OK rookie and both Guards were average to below average all year. So we have the likes of Elf, Samia, Dozier, udoh, Hinton....competing at Guard right now. That is not a very solid group at all.
Like someone else said, signing Warford makes him our best OL as soon as the ink dries.
I have been reading about hopeful optimism regarding Samia stepping in and starting at RG next year after a rookie year of playing in 2 games. Would be great but I would prefer to sign a sure thing and groom the likes of Samia and the others listed above. Even if we sign Warford at RG then our next biggest weakness (on the whole team - IMO) is Elf at LG.
Quote: @Carl Knowles said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
Warford has some NFL starts under his belt at left guard and even left tackle. So it's not like the left side is completely new for him.
The Saints started running zone blocking concepts 6 years ago.
This is what Saints Wire had to say after signing Devine Ozigbo:
He flourished in an offense that leaned heavily on outside zone blocking, which the Saints also use to great effectiveness.
I wouldn't mind seeing Kline resigned, but that hasn't happened yet and may not. Rieff's cap hit next year is a big problem.
Ezra Cleveland is one of the strongest guys in his class and Boise State runs a similar system. He is one of our top 5 OL right now!
It doesn't make sense to start Cleveland at left guard for one year? Or does it?
I will admit Warford is probably not the answer,.. but the Vikings have a couple question marks on the OL that need answered.
I guess I will just need to be patient.
You say Cleveland is one of the strongest in this class, yet, iirc, so many predraft analysis of him talked about the need to add core strength to play at the next level, suggesting that he is not yet strong enough for the NFL.
The Vikes are currently under their cap with enough to cover their draft picks and then some, Reiffs contract is only an issue for those that think there is a better answer at LT on the roster or somebody that can come in and do the job better for less, I havent seen that player yet. Hes still the second best OL we have on the roster and plays the most important position outside of QB in the game..
Yes, I'm seeing those evaluations.
Lance Zierlein NFL Analyst:
Athletic left tackle able to make all outside zone blocks in the run game, but in dire need of additional mass and functional strength. Tape work can be tricky as Cleveland suffered a turf toe injury in his second game of the 2019 season and was unable to practice for much of the year. Issues anchoring and redirecting edge pressure are independent from his injury, but determining the impact of that injury on his play is challenging. He plays with patience and technique but lacks base width and contact balance. Cleveland has the athleticism to play swing tackle for a zone-based offense but needs to get much stronger to hold up as a starter.
Cleveland checks in at 310 pounds and was the #1 OL in 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle. Was #3 in the 40 and #5 in the bench. He checks all the boxes and looked very good at the Senior bowl.
Jimmy keep in mind, functional strength seen on tape has a lot to do with technique. I have heard that a turf toe injury can be very painful. Cleveland did not practice all season yet still played in the games. Coaches rarely allow that to happen. Most coaches have a rule of thumb... if you can't practice you can't play!
I don't know that much about Cleveland,.. but I think if Brian O'Neil could step in and start as an NFL rookie, I see no reason why Cleveland can't do the same.
Now, even though Cleveland has never played guard, many analysts project him as a very good starting caliber guard at the next level.
My problem with that is he has great lateral quickness and is a very good pass blocker against speed rushers, plus 33 3/8 arms (all the traits you look for in a left tackle). The Vikings drafted him as a tackle, have him listed as a tackle on the official roster... and he was unquestionably ranked as a top 50 tackle prospect.
Yet our #1 need right now is probably to "improve" our pass blocking at left guard. IMO, Rieff, Kline and Cleveland can answer that problem in the short term (which the Vikings might do in an abbreviated offseason), but are those options (at left guard) good for the Vikings over the long haul looking forward to the next three or four years? Keep in mind those three guys have not really been focused on the left guard spot.
Jimmy who would your starting five be right now?
Reiff, Collins, Bradbury, Kline/Samia, ONeill
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
Warford has some NFL starts under his belt at left guard and even left tackle. So it's not like the left side is completely new for him.
The Saints started running zone blocking concepts 6 years ago.
This is what Saints Wire had to say after signing Devine Ozigbo:
He flourished in an offense that leaned heavily on outside zone blocking, which the Saints also use to great effectiveness.
I wouldn't mind seeing Kline resigned, but that hasn't happened yet and may not. Rieff's cap hit next year is a big problem.
Ezra Cleveland is one of the strongest guys in his class and Boise State runs a similar system. He is one of our top 5 OL right now!
It doesn't make sense to start Cleveland at left guard for one year? Or does it?
I will admit Warford is probably not the answer,.. but the Vikings have a couple question marks on the OL that need answered.
I guess I will just need to be patient.
You say Cleveland is one of the strongest in this class, yet, iirc, so many predraft analysis of him talked about the need to add core strength to play at the next level, suggesting that he is not yet strong enough for the NFL.
The Vikes are currently under their cap with enough to cover their draft picks and then some, Reiffs contract is only an issue for those that think there is a better answer at LT on the roster or somebody that can come in and do the job better for less, I havent seen that player yet. Hes still the second best OL we have on the roster and plays the most important position outside of QB in the game..
Yes, I'm seeing those evaluations.
Lance Zierlein NFL Analyst:
Athletic left tackle able to make all outside zone blocks in the run game, but in dire need of additional mass and functional strength. Tape work can be tricky as Cleveland suffered a turf toe injury in his second game of the 2019 season and was unable to practice for much of the year. Issues anchoring and redirecting edge pressure are independent from his injury, but determining the impact of that injury on his play is challenging. He plays with patience and technique but lacks base width and contact balance. Cleveland has the athleticism to play swing tackle for a zone-based offense but needs to get much stronger to hold up as a starter.
Cleveland checks in at 310 pounds and was the #1 OL in 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle. Was #3 in the 40 and #5 in the bench. He checks all the boxes and looked very good at the Senior bowl.
Jimmy keep in mind, functional strength seen on tape has a lot to do with technique. I have heard that a turf toe injury can be very painful. Cleveland did not practice all season yet still played in the games. Coaches rarely allow that to happen. Most coaches have a rule of thumb... if you can't practice you can't play!
I don't know that much about Cleveland,.. but I think if Brian O'Neil could step in and start as an NFL rookie, I see no reason why Cleveland can't do the same.
Now, even though Cleveland has never played guard, many analysts project him as a very good starting caliber guard at the next level.
My problem with that is he has great lateral quickness and is a very good pass blocker against speed rushers, plus 33 3/8 arms (all the traits you look for in a left tackle). The Vikings drafted him as a tackle, have him listed as a tackle on the official roster... and he was unquestionably ranked as a top 50 tackle prospect.
Yet our #1 need right now is probably to "improve" our pass blocking at left guard. IMO, Rieff, Kline and Cleveland can answer that problem in the short term (which the Vikings might do in an abbreviated offseason), but are those options (at left guard) good for the Vikings over the long haul looking forward to the next three or four years? Keep in mind those three guys have not really been focused on the left guard spot.
Jimmy who would your starting five be right now?
Reiff, Collins, Bradbury, Kline/Samia, ONeill
Collins is such a tease...I'd really like Kline back on the roster asap...he has plenty of experience at LG, so if Samia is really all that, BAM, suddenly we are up to mediocre to average on the OL...rare air for this franchise...
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
Warford has some NFL starts under his belt at left guard and even left tackle. So it's not like the left side is completely new for him.
The Saints started running zone blocking concepts 6 years ago.
This is what Saints Wire had to say after signing Devine Ozigbo:
He flourished in an offense that leaned heavily on outside zone blocking, which the Saints also use to great effectiveness.
I wouldn't mind seeing Kline resigned, but that hasn't happened yet and may not. Rieff's cap hit next year is a big problem.
Ezra Cleveland is one of the strongest guys in his class and Boise State runs a similar system. He is one of our top 5 OL right now!
It doesn't make sense to start Cleveland at left guard for one year? Or does it?
I will admit Warford is probably not the answer,.. but the Vikings have a couple question marks on the OL that need answered.
I guess I will just need to be patient.
You say Cleveland is one of the strongest in this class, yet, iirc, so many predraft analysis of him talked about the need to add core strength to play at the next level, suggesting that he is not yet strong enough for the NFL.
The Vikes are currently under their cap with enough to cover their draft picks and then some, Reiffs contract is only an issue for those that think there is a better answer at LT on the roster or somebody that can come in and do the job better for less, I havent seen that player yet. Hes still the second best OL we have on the roster and plays the most important position outside of QB in the game..
Yes, I'm seeing those evaluations.
Lance Zierlein NFL Analyst:
Athletic left tackle able to make all outside zone blocks in the run game, but in dire need of additional mass and functional strength. Tape work can be tricky as Cleveland suffered a turf toe injury in his second game of the 2019 season and was unable to practice for much of the year. Issues anchoring and redirecting edge pressure are independent from his injury, but determining the impact of that injury on his play is challenging. He plays with patience and technique but lacks base width and contact balance. Cleveland has the athleticism to play swing tackle for a zone-based offense but needs to get much stronger to hold up as a starter.
Cleveland checks in at 310 pounds and was the #1 OL in 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle. Was #3 in the 40 and #5 in the bench. He checks all the boxes and looked very good at the Senior bowl.
Jimmy keep in mind, functional strength seen on tape has a lot to do with technique. I have heard that a turf toe injury can be very painful. Cleveland did not practice all season yet still played in the games. Coaches rarely allow that to happen. Most coaches have a rule of thumb... if you can't practice you can't play!
I don't know that much about Cleveland,.. but I think if Brian O'Neil could step in and start as an NFL rookie, I see no reason why Cleveland can't do the same.
Now, even though Cleveland has never played guard, many analysts project him as a very good starting caliber guard at the next level.
My problem with that is he has great lateral quickness and is a very good pass blocker against speed rushers, plus 33 3/8 arms (all the traits you look for in a left tackle). The Vikings drafted him as a tackle, have him listed as a tackle on the official roster... and he was unquestionably ranked as a top 50 tackle prospect.
Yet our #1 need right now is probably to "improve" our pass blocking at left guard. IMO, Rieff, Kline and Cleveland can answer that problem in the short term (which the Vikings might do in an abbreviated offseason), but are those options (at left guard) good for the Vikings over the long haul looking forward to the next three or four years? Keep in mind those three guys have not really been focused on the left guard spot.
Jimmy who would your starting five be right now?
Reiff, Collins, Bradbury, Kline/Samia, ONeill
Collins is such a tease...I'd really like Kline back on the roster asap...he has plenty of experience at LG, so if Samia is really all that, BAM, suddenly we are up to mediocre to average on the OL...rare air for this franchise...
Collins has to pay off eventually, he has looked so good but then keeps getting hurt, that cant continue can it? I'm hoping for a Sidney Rice type turn around for him except with a longer career.
If Collins can stay healthy, the sky is the limit. I think his best football is still ahead of him.
Quote: @Carl Knowles said:
If Collins can stay healthy, the sky is the limit. I think his best football is still ahead of him.
agreed. I believe you have 4 of the 5 starters of a talented line on the roster
ONeill, Bradburry, Collins, Udoh
Cleveland becoming ONeil 2020 and a slide of Udoh inside would give you the line of youth and promise
Cleveland-Collins-Bradburry-Udoh-ONeil
What if Gabe Jackson from the Raiders becomes available? Would there be any takers, he's a potential cut and a true left guard.
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