Do we need WR's that badly that we need to have one in the first 2 rounds? Having the kind of depth that exists at the position, what would happen if we went in another direction at #58... and waited to pick a WR later? Would the drop-off be that much?
What would you think of selling out to move up to #9 to grab Kinlaw if he was available. Jags are another team looking to trade down.
The impact of a legit 3T just cascades all throughout the defense. 3 new CBs are going to need all the help they can get, especially with no OTAs.
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
What would you think of selling out to move up to #9 to grab Kinlaw if he was available. Jags are another team looking to trade down.
The impact of a legit 3T just cascades all throughout the defense. 3 new CBs are going to need all the help they can get, especially with no OTAs.
I wouldn't go all the way into the top 10 for Kinlaw. I actually don't like him nearly as much as the media. He'll be very good, but don't see the elite pass rushing upside.
If you are going into the top 10 I think it would likely be Wirfs. He is one of the best O-lineman I've ever graded. He's not a finished product but if you look at his improvements between 2018 & 19 he is just scratching the surface and his film already wasn't an issue.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
What would you think of selling out to move up to #9 to grab Kinlaw if he was available. Jags are another team looking to trade down.
The impact of a legit 3T just cascades all throughout the defense. 3 new CBs are going to need all the help they can get, especially with no OTAs.
I wouldn't go all the way into the top 10 for Kinlaw. I actually don't like him nearly as much as the media. He'll be very good, but don't see the elite pass rushing upside.
If you are going into the top 10 I think it would likely be Wirfs. He is one of the best O-lineman I've ever graded. He's not a finished product but if you look at his improvements between 2018 & 19 he is just scratching the surface and his film already wasn't an issue.
Just stay put and take Raekwon Davis who is just as good as Kinlaw in not better IMHO.
Davis was pre-season All American on several lists. He was rated #25 by drafttek in late December.
He has fallen in the rankings despite only playing one bowl game.
Amazing what the pre-draft crapola does to internet big boards and thus, fan opinions.
Davis is a beast!
The dude returned to school to graduate and completed that task as the first in his family.
He was the only upperclassman on the defensive line last year and was their leader.
I would not be surprised in the slightest to see him go in the late first and then have folks say it was a reach.
Quote: @pumpf said:
Do we need WR's that badly that we need to have one in the first 2 rounds? Having the kind of depth that exists at the position, what would happen if we went in another direction at #58... and waited to pick a WR later? Would the drop-off be that much?
Stefon Diggs was Top 5 in 4 different categories regarding the passes that travelled over 20 Air Yards last year.
In other words, he was an Elite Deep Threat. And Cousins was very, very good when targeting Diggs deep.
Diggs was much more than just a deep threat. But just that facet alone is tremendously important to a team that wants to rely heavily on the run.
Thielen is great. Going deep is a capability he has. But that's not his best use. No one disagrees with that take. So where does the deep threat that is so needed to keep teams from loading the box and doubling Adam every single play come from?
Sharpe has never shown that trait in any consistent way. And he's a WR3 at best. Bisi actually looks to be very similar to Sharpe as a Player. And profiles as a WR4. So who's left?
I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. This Reciever Class is so deep you can probably find a guy to challenge the back end of the Defense into the 3rd Round. But it's hard to argue against someone saying it's a need that has to get filled earlier than that.
If this Offense walks into the next season with no option to legitimately, consistently take the top off of Defenses things will not go well unless they have an Elite O-Line.
Quote: @pumpf said:
Do we need WR's that badly that we need to have one in the first 2 rounds? Having the kind of depth that exists at the position, what would happen if we went in another direction at #58... and waited to pick a WR later? Would the drop-off be that much?
I think so. I think there is a misconception that this draft has 1st and 2nd round receivers running into the 4th and 5th round. I don't think that's the case.
This WR class is special because there will be a record number of them taken in the top, say, 75. After that, it's just like any other receiver class. Yeah, some good players will get pushed down as teams fill other needs, but to get the best value from this class, you really gotta tap into the top 15 to 20 receivers.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
Do we need WR's that badly that we need to have one in the first 2 rounds? Having the kind of depth that exists at the position, what would happen if we went in another direction at #58... and waited to pick a WR later? Would the drop-off be that much?
I think so. I think there is a misconception that this draft has 1st and 2nd round receivers running into the 4th and 5th round. I don't think that's the case.
This WR class is special because there will be a record number of them taken in the top, say, 75. After that, it's just like any other receiver class. Yeah, some good players will get pushed down as teams fill other needs, but to get the best value from this class, you really gotta tap into the top 15 to 20 receivers.
Exactly. The excuse that "a draft class is deep so you can wait" is mind boggling to me.
It is like going to see a bunch of models and some of them are super models and then saying you can pass on those and just get another one later.
Wait. Bad analogy.
I'd rather get one of the best ones early and that likely is in the first round.
Then, get another later just because.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
What would you think of selling out to move up to #9 to grab Kinlaw if he was available. Jags are another team looking to trade down.
The impact of a legit 3T just cascades all throughout the defense. 3 new CBs are going to need all the help they can get, especially with no OTAs.
I wouldn't go all the way into the top 10 for Kinlaw. I actually don't like him nearly as much as the media. He'll be very good, but don't see the elite pass rushing upside.
If you are going into the top 10 I think it would likely be Wirfs. He is one of the best O-lineman I've ever graded. He's not a finished product but if you look at his improvements between 2018 & 19 he is just scratching the surface and his film already wasn't an issue.
Just stay put and take Raekwon Davis who is just as good as Kinlaw in not better IMHO.
Davis was pre-season All American on several lists. He was rated #25 by drafttek in late December.
He has fallen in the rankings despite only playing one bowl game.
Amazing what the pre-draft crapola does to internet big boards and thus, fan opinions.
Davis is a beast!
The dude returned to school to graduate and completed that task as the first in his family.
He was the only upperclassman on the defensive line last year and was their leader.
I would not be surprised in the slightest to see him go in the late first and then have folks say it was a reach.
I think that's a pretty bold take. I think the media has over-hyped Davis all the way back to when he was recruited. The stagnant/downward trajectory of his on-field performance is very concerning too. Has the size/length/measurable's you look for but hasn't been overly explosive and needs quite a bit of pass rush development. The concerning part about that is that Alabama is one of the better schools at developing that in guys, so why did that not turn out for him? It's a question he'll need to answer to get teams to buy in.
I personally have him on a list of guys who could fall significantly. So I would be in the group saying he was a reach in late round 1. I don't even know if I would take him in round 2.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
What would you think of selling out to move up to #9 to grab Kinlaw if he was available. Jags are another team looking to trade down.
The impact of a legit 3T just cascades all throughout the defense. 3 new CBs are going to need all the help they can get, especially with no OTAs.
I wouldn't go all the way into the top 10 for Kinlaw. I actually don't like him nearly as much as the media. He'll be very good, but don't see the elite pass rushing upside.
If you are going into the top 10 I think it would likely be Wirfs. He is one of the best O-lineman I've ever graded. He's not a finished product but if you look at his improvements between 2018 & 19 he is just scratching the surface and his film already wasn't an issue.
Just stay put and take Raekwon Davis who is just as good as Kinlaw in not better IMHO.
Davis was pre-season All American on several lists. He was rated #25 by drafttek in late December.
He has fallen in the rankings despite only playing one bowl game.
Amazing what the pre-draft crapola does to internet big boards and thus, fan opinions.
Davis is a beast!
The dude returned to school to graduate and completed that task as the first in his family.
He was the only upperclassman on the defensive line last year and was their leader.
I would not be surprised in the slightest to see him go in the late first and then have folks say it was a reach.
I think that's a pretty bold take. I think the media has over-hyped Davis all the way back to when he was recruited. The stagnant/downward trajectory of his on-field performance is very concerning too. Has the size/length/measurable's you look for but hasn't been overly explosive and needs quite a bit of pass rush development. The concerning part about that is that Alabama is one of the better schools at developing that in guys, so why did that not turn out for him? It's a question he'll need to answer to get teams to buy in.
I personally have him on a list of guys who could fall significantly. So I would be in the group saying he was a reach in late round 1. I don't even know if I would take him in round 2.
That is fair. However, how do you explain those 8.5 sacks in 2017? That is pretty dang good for a DT. Did he just luck into those?
I think that showed he could get after the passer.
What happened the last two years is he was double teamed incessantly.
A few scouting reports even made a comment about him "wearing down" without any mention of getting doubled.
I think you are way off on Davis.
Kinlaw had 35 tackles (15 solo), 6 tackles for loss, and 6 sacks in 2019.
He had 38 tackles (21 solo), 10 tackles for loss, and 4 sacks in 2018.
He had 20 tackles (12 solo), 2 tackles for loss, and 0 sacks in 2017.
Davis had 47 tackles (18 solo), 3 tackles for loss, and .5 sacks in 2019.
He had 55 tackles (24 solo), 5.5 tackles for loss, and 1.5 sacks in 2018.
He had 69 tackles (24 solo), 10 tackles for loss, and 8.5 sacks in 2017.
Davis already plays the run better and getting double teamed does have an effect on those counting stats.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
What would you think of selling out to move up to #9 to grab Kinlaw if he was available. Jags are another team looking to trade down.
The impact of a legit 3T just cascades all throughout the defense. 3 new CBs are going to need all the help they can get, especially with no OTAs.
I wouldn't go all the way into the top 10 for Kinlaw. I actually don't like him nearly as much as the media. He'll be very good, but don't see the elite pass rushing upside.
If you are going into the top 10 I think it would likely be Wirfs. He is one of the best O-lineman I've ever graded. He's not a finished product but if you look at his improvements between 2018 & 19 he is just scratching the surface and his film already wasn't an issue.
Just stay put and take Raekwon Davis who is just as good as Kinlaw in not better IMHO.
Davis was pre-season All American on several lists. He was rated #25 by drafttek in late December.
He has fallen in the rankings despite only playing one bowl game.
Amazing what the pre-draft crapola does to internet big boards and thus, fan opinions.
Davis is a beast!
The dude returned to school to graduate and completed that task as the first in his family.
He was the only upperclassman on the defensive line last year and was their leader.
I would not be surprised in the slightest to see him go in the late first and then have folks say it was a reach.
I think that's a pretty bold take. I think the media has over-hyped Davis all the way back to when he was recruited. The stagnant/downward trajectory of his on-field performance is very concerning too. Has the size/length/measurable's you look for but hasn't been overly explosive and needs quite a bit of pass rush development. The concerning part about that is that Alabama is one of the better schools at developing that in guys, so why did that not turn out for him? It's a question he'll need to answer to get teams to buy in.
I personally have him on a list of guys who could fall significantly. So I would be in the group saying he was a reach in late round 1. I don't even know if I would take him in round 2.
Spot on regarding Davis, Geoff. Watched him weekly for years - personally would not take him until 4th or later, if then. Alabama defense as a whole underperformed, not sure how much of that was new DC Pete Golding. Constantly out of position to make plays. Will be interesting to see how a couple of the players pan out. McKinney , Lewis & Jennings all showed flashes of NFL quality. Not a fan of Davis or Diggs.
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