Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ greediron said:
@ FSUVike said:
And it gets worse. Only 20 Rookies WRs in the entire history of the League have eclipsed 1,000 yards. So even if Minnesota could somehow pick the best of Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs, none of whom they will have a shot at, the odds of that Rookie replacing Diggs' production is extremely low.
But hey, at least you guys who spend all day on Twitter won't have anything to get cranky about any more!
You don't have to replace Diggs, just draft someone that can pair with AT. It was obvious last year that Adam is the better WR. Our offense missed him badly. Diggs? Not so much.
This! let's not forget the Vikes beat the heavy favorite Saints with Diggs having two catches for 19 yards. Diggs is a good player, but let's not overreact and think this team is incapable of torching defenses through the air. There's a lot of time until the season starts...
The Defense had as much or more to do with the win than the Offense. And Adam was the Reciever that was benefitting from the Saints either putting their best Corner on Diggs or doubling him.
The defense was great yes, but he also didnt produce vs SF. Not trying to nitpick your argument as I think Diggs is a good receiver, but using an excuse that someone's best corner defending him leads to minimal production only strengthens the argument that he's not an elite receiver. If they hit on the first round pick we receive then this will be classified as a great pick, so i'm not going to be overly pessimistic about our situation until the draft is over.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Some of you guys are calling this "a haul"...seriously? I see exactly ONE premium draft pick, the first rounder (and it ain't a top 10 pick). After that we have a couple of late picks, which are a crapshoot, and a 4th rounder - next year. Great, a 4th round pick , where the Vikings have recently acquired such contributors as Jalyn Holmes, Willie Beavers, TJ Clemmings, and Jaleel Johnson. But hey, maybe we'll strike gold with that pick and get someone on the level of Ben Gedeon!
The Bills just acquired one of the 10 (maybe 5) best WRs in the NFL, only 26 years old, and will pair him with John Brown, who caught 72 passes for over 1,000 yards as a rookie. We received the 22nd pick (yay, 1 pick higher than we picked Laquon Treadwell!), and our #2 WR is now Bisi Johnson.
Unless Diggs was a genuine locker-room cancer far beyond anything reported and will melt down in Antonio Brown style within a year, this trade is a tragedy for the Vikings.
Agree. There is one winner here: The Bills. And two losers: the Vikings and Diggs.
All picks after the 4th round are guesses, and all picks next year are mostly meaningless. Grains of sand to balance a scale. So this is essentially Diggs for the 22nd pick. I don't think anyone got fleeced here--it's fair value in the market of capital and services.
But when you factor in just how much Diggs meant to this offense, and how difficult that will be to replace, considering all the other needs, the Vikings have definitely taken a step backward.
I think the best thing the Vikings can do right now is sign a low-cost veteran receiver who can step into the #2 role and draft another receiver in either rounds 1 or 2 to compete with him. We absolutely cannot count on a rookie receiver to come in and contribute, much less replace the kind of attention that Diggs drew from defenses.
There is an argument to be made from a best-use-of-resources perspective. Vikings were a running team spending nearly $30M on its wide receivers. THAT, I get. But in order for this to work, the Vikings have to turn this transaction into one HELL of a running game, despite the fact that, right now anyway, the key to beating the Vikings is simple: double Thielen and stack the box.
I would be curious to know what you think another team would have realistically offered where you would pull the trigger?
Two starters. So either a 1st and a player or a 1st and a 3rd--a player who should eventually start. Even then I'm not sure I do it. Yesterday, we were a team with a bunch of holes to fill on defense, but an offense that could conceivably become elite with better protection, or at least good enough to render a further downgrade on defense somewhat tolerable.
Today, we're a team who just took a significant blow to that offense...and the holes on defense are still there, too. Can we replace Diggs? Of course. We'll replace his spot on the roster. But I think people are underestimating just how hard it is to find a receiver of that caliber.
Go ahead, look at all the 1st round receivers at the link below...if you dare. It's not a pretty picture. Notice how many of them had little or no impact their rookie season, about 90%. Go back a decade, two decades. It's a parade of busts. No, you strike gold on a receiver like Diggs, you find a way to keep him. Oh, but those "cryptic tweets." LOL. People react as if he PERSONALLY offended them in some way. I'll show you, Diggs! SMH
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/wr
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Some of you guys are calling this "a haul"...seriously? I see exactly ONE premium draft pick, the first rounder (and it ain't a top 10 pick). After that we have a couple of late picks, which are a crapshoot, and a 4th rounder - next year. Great, a 4th round pick , where the Vikings have recently acquired such contributors as Jalyn Holmes, Willie Beavers, TJ Clemmings, and Jaleel Johnson. But hey, maybe we'll strike gold with that pick and get someone on the level of Ben Gedeon!
The Bills just acquired one of the 10 (maybe 5) best WRs in the NFL, only 26 years old, and will pair him with John Brown, who caught 72 passes for over 1,000 yards as a rookie. We received the 22nd pick (yay, 1 pick higher than we picked Laquon Treadwell!), and our #2 WR is now Bisi Johnson.
Unless Diggs was a genuine locker-room cancer far beyond anything reported and will melt down in Antonio Brown style within a year, this trade is a tragedy for the Vikings.
Agree. There is one winner here: The Bills. And two losers: the Vikings and Diggs.
All picks after the 4th round are guesses, and all picks next year are mostly meaningless. Grains of sand to balance a scale. So this is essentially Diggs for the 22nd pick. I don't think anyone got fleeced here--it's fair value in the market of capital and services.
But when you factor in just how much Diggs meant to this offense, and how difficult that will be to replace, considering all the other needs, the Vikings have definitely taken a step backward.
I think the best thing the Vikings can do right now is sign a low-cost veteran receiver who can step into the #2 role and draft another receiver in either rounds 1 or 2 to compete with him. We absolutely cannot count on a rookie receiver to come in and contribute, much less replace the kind of attention that Diggs drew from defenses.
There is an argument to be made from a best-use-of-resources perspective. Vikings were a running team spending nearly $30M on its wide receivers. THAT, I get. But in order for this to work, the Vikings have to turn this transaction into one HELL of a running game, despite the fact that, right now anyway, the key to beating the Vikings is simple: double Thielen and stack the box.
I would be curious to know what you think another team would have realistically offered where you would pull the trigger?
Two starters. So either a 1st and a player or a 1st and a 3rd--a player who should eventually start. Even then I'm not sure I do it. Yesterday, we were a team with a bunch of holes to fill on defense, but an offense that could conceivably become elite with better protection, or at least good enough to render a further downgrade on defense somewhat tolerable.
Today, we're a team who just took a significant blow to that offense...and the holes on defense are still there, too. Can we replace Diggs? Of course. We'll replace his spot on the roster. But I think people are underestimating just how hard it is to find a receiver of that caliber.
Go ahead, look at all the 1st round receivers at the link below...if you dare. It's not a pretty picture. Notice how many of them had little or no impact their rookie season, about 90%. Go back a decade, two decades. It's a parade of busts. No, you strike gold on a receiver like Diggs, you find a way to keep him. Oh, but those "cryptic tweets." LOL. People react as if he PERSONALLY offended them in some way. I'll show you, Diggs! SMH
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/wr
do you honestly think it was the tweets alone that pushed Rick to accept this offer? it certainly wasnt the offer that blew his skirt up, its not bad, but its not that earth shattering, just because the dirt wasnt reaching the fans doesnt mean there wasnt more to this trade than a kid on a cell phone.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ greediron said:
@ FSUVike said:
And it gets worse. Only 20 Rookies WRs in the entire history of the League have eclipsed 1,000 yards. So even if Minnesota could somehow pick the best of Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs, none of whom they will have a shot at, the odds of that Rookie replacing Diggs' production is extremely low.
But hey, at least you guys who spend all day on Twitter won't have anything to get cranky about any more!
You don't have to replace Diggs, just draft someone that can pair with AT. It was obvious last year that Adam is the better WR. Our offense missed him badly. Diggs? Not so much.
When Thielen sees the attention Diggs got when he was out and fails to exceed it remind me to revisit this quote.
2 things. Who got the attention when both were on the field? And who still produced when Diggs was out every year prior to last year?
AT was our #1 WR and it wasn't that close.
Thielen without Diggs:
2016
Game 11 - 8 catches for 53 yards
Game 15 - 12 catches for 202 yards and 2 TDs
Game 16 - 1 catch for 7 yards
2017
Game 15 - 2 catches for 24 yards
Game 16 - 6 catches for 61 yards
2018
Game 9 - 4 catches for 22 yards and a TD
Diggs without Thielen:
2019
Game 8 - 7 receptions for 143 yards
Game 10 - 3 receptions for 49 yards
Game 11 - 5 receptions for 121 yards and a TD
Game 12 - 4 receptions for 25 yards
Game 13 - 6 receptions for 92 yards
Quote:
2 things. Who got the attention when both were on the field? And who still produced when Diggs was out every year prior to last year?
AT was our #1 WR and it wasn't that close.
Thielen doesn't get the full amount of respect he deserves from game commentators or many fans... for some reason. I still recall Collinsworth saying in '18 that "he's not the most athletic guy," which is an absurd statement. Teams and players seem to give it to him (such as being 33 & 36 on the NFL top 100 the last two years). Still, no matter how often he scores, how many diving 3rd down or in-traffic catches he makes he's still never praised as much as several others seem to be handed for less.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Some of you guys are calling this "a haul"...seriously? I see exactly ONE premium draft pick, the first rounder (and it ain't a top 10 pick). After that we have a couple of late picks, which are a crapshoot, and a 4th rounder - next year. Great, a 4th round pick , where the Vikings have recently acquired such contributors as Jalyn Holmes, Willie Beavers, TJ Clemmings, and Jaleel Johnson. But hey, maybe we'll strike gold with that pick and get someone on the level of Ben Gedeon!
The Bills just acquired one of the 10 (maybe 5) best WRs in the NFL, only 26 years old, and will pair him with John Brown, who caught 72 passes for over 1,000 yards as a rookie. We received the 22nd pick (yay, 1 pick higher than we picked Laquon Treadwell!), and our #2 WR is now Bisi Johnson.
Unless Diggs was a genuine locker-room cancer far beyond anything reported and will melt down in Antonio Brown style within a year, this trade is a tragedy for the Vikings.
Agree. There is one winner here: The Bills. And two losers: the Vikings and Diggs.
All picks after the 4th round are guesses, and all picks next year are mostly meaningless. Grains of sand to balance a scale. So this is essentially Diggs for the 22nd pick. I don't think anyone got fleeced here--it's fair value in the market of capital and services.
But when you factor in just how much Diggs meant to this offense, and how difficult that will be to replace, considering all the other needs, the Vikings have definitely taken a step backward.
I think the best thing the Vikings can do right now is sign a low-cost veteran receiver who can step into the #2 role and draft another receiver in either rounds 1 or 2 to compete with him. We absolutely cannot count on a rookie receiver to come in and contribute, much less replace the kind of attention that Diggs drew from defenses.
There is an argument to be made from a best-use-of-resources perspective. Vikings were a running team spending nearly $30M on its wide receivers. THAT, I get. But in order for this to work, the Vikings have to turn this transaction into one HELL of a running game, despite the fact that, right now anyway, the key to beating the Vikings is simple: double Thielen and stack the box.
I would be curious to know what you think another team would have realistically offered where you would pull the trigger?
Two starters. So either a 1st and a player or a 1st and a 3rd--a player who should eventually start. Even then I'm not sure I do it. Yesterday, we were a team with a bunch of holes to fill on defense, but an offense that could conceivably become elite with better protection, or at least good enough to render a further downgrade on defense somewhat tolerable.
Today, we're a team who just took a significant blow to that offense...and the holes on defense are still there, too. Can we replace Diggs? Of course. We'll replace his spot on the roster. But I think people are underestimating just how hard it is to find a receiver of that caliber.
Go ahead, look at all the 1st round receivers at the link below...if you dare. It's not a pretty picture. Notice how many of them had little or no impact their rookie season, about 90%. Go back a decade, two decades. It's a parade of busts. No, you strike gold on a receiver like Diggs, you find a way to keep him. Oh, but those "cryptic tweets." LOL. People react as if he PERSONALLY offended them in some way. I'll show you, Diggs! SMH
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/wr
do you honestly think it was the tweets alone that pushed Rick to accept this offer? it certainly wasnt the offer that blew his skirt up, its not bad, but its not that earth shattering, just because the dirt wasnt reaching the fans doesnt mean there wasnt more to this trade than a kid on a cell phone. I think the whole issue with his Twits (  ) was only the symptom, not the cause. He...for his reasons, true or not...wanted to be a larger focus of the team. I don't think he dislikes KC or necessarily the coaches but the cryptic social media posts regarding his role in the offense afforded him this diva-like attitude. He wasn't happy so something had to be done. He'll be the #1 receiver in Buffalo and with NE possibly taking a step back, it sure as heck won't be Miami or the Jets running away with the AFC Least.
Diggs with Thielen AND Cook (Eagles). 450 yards of offense, 38 points, 5 TDs between the three.
Diggs 7 for 167, 3 TDs
Thielen 6 for 57, 1 TD
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Some of you guys are calling this "a haul"...seriously? I see exactly ONE premium draft pick, the first rounder (and it ain't a top 10 pick). After that we have a couple of late picks, which are a crapshoot, and a 4th rounder - next year. Great, a 4th round pick , where the Vikings have recently acquired such contributors as Jalyn Holmes, Willie Beavers, TJ Clemmings, and Jaleel Johnson. But hey, maybe we'll strike gold with that pick and get someone on the level of Ben Gedeon!
The Bills just acquired one of the 10 (maybe 5) best WRs in the NFL, only 26 years old, and will pair him with John Brown, who caught 72 passes for over 1,000 yards as a rookie. We received the 22nd pick (yay, 1 pick higher than we picked Laquon Treadwell!), and our #2 WR is now Bisi Johnson.
Unless Diggs was a genuine locker-room cancer far beyond anything reported and will melt down in Antonio Brown style within a year, this trade is a tragedy for the Vikings.
Agree. There is one winner here: The Bills. And two losers: the Vikings and Diggs.
All picks after the 4th round are guesses, and all picks next year are mostly meaningless. Grains of sand to balance a scale. So this is essentially Diggs for the 22nd pick. I don't think anyone got fleeced here--it's fair value in the market of capital and services.
But when you factor in just how much Diggs meant to this offense, and how difficult that will be to replace, considering all the other needs, the Vikings have definitely taken a step backward.
I think the best thing the Vikings can do right now is sign a low-cost veteran receiver who can step into the #2 role and draft another receiver in either rounds 1 or 2 to compete with him. We absolutely cannot count on a rookie receiver to come in and contribute, much less replace the kind of attention that Diggs drew from defenses.
There is an argument to be made from a best-use-of-resources perspective. Vikings were a running team spending nearly $30M on its wide receivers. THAT, I get. But in order for this to work, the Vikings have to turn this transaction into one HELL of a running game, despite the fact that, right now anyway, the key to beating the Vikings is simple: double Thielen and stack the box.
I would be curious to know what you think another team would have realistically offered where you would pull the trigger?
Two starters. So either a 1st and a player or a 1st and a 3rd--a player who should eventually start. Even then I'm not sure I do it. Yesterday, we were a team with a bunch of holes to fill on defense, but an offense that could conceivably become elite with better protection, or at least good enough to render a further downgrade on defense somewhat tolerable.
Today, we're a team who just took a significant blow to that offense...and the holes on defense are still there, too. Can we replace Diggs? Of course. We'll replace his spot on the roster. But I think people are underestimating just how hard it is to find a receiver of that caliber.
Go ahead, look at all the 1st round receivers at the link below...if you dare. It's not a pretty picture. Notice how many of them had little or no impact their rookie season, about 90%. Go back a decade, two decades. It's a parade of busts. No, you strike gold on a receiver like Diggs, you find a way to keep him. Oh, but those "cryptic tweets." LOL. People react as if he PERSONALLY offended them in some way. I'll show you, Diggs! SMH
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/wr
do you honestly think it was the tweets alone that pushed Rick to accept this offer? it certainly wasnt the offer that blew his skirt up, its not bad, but its not that earth shattering, just because the dirt wasnt reaching the fans doesnt mean there wasnt more to this trade than a kid on a cell phone.
Of course not. I was mocking everyone who got upset by them.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Some of you guys are calling this "a haul"...seriously? I see exactly ONE premium draft pick, the first rounder (and it ain't a top 10 pick). After that we have a couple of late picks, which are a crapshoot, and a 4th rounder - next year. Great, a 4th round pick , where the Vikings have recently acquired such contributors as Jalyn Holmes, Willie Beavers, TJ Clemmings, and Jaleel Johnson. But hey, maybe we'll strike gold with that pick and get someone on the level of Ben Gedeon!
The Bills just acquired one of the 10 (maybe 5) best WRs in the NFL, only 26 years old, and will pair him with John Brown, who caught 72 passes for over 1,000 yards as a rookie. We received the 22nd pick (yay, 1 pick higher than we picked Laquon Treadwell!), and our #2 WR is now Bisi Johnson.
Unless Diggs was a genuine locker-room cancer far beyond anything reported and will melt down in Antonio Brown style within a year, this trade is a tragedy for the Vikings.
Agree. There is one winner here: The Bills. And two losers: the Vikings and Diggs.
All picks after the 4th round are guesses, and all picks next year are mostly meaningless. Grains of sand to balance a scale. So this is essentially Diggs for the 22nd pick. I don't think anyone got fleeced here--it's fair value in the market of capital and services.
But when you factor in just how much Diggs meant to this offense, and how difficult that will be to replace, considering all the other needs, the Vikings have definitely taken a step backward.
I think the best thing the Vikings can do right now is sign a low-cost veteran receiver who can step into the #2 role and draft another receiver in either rounds 1 or 2 to compete with him. We absolutely cannot count on a rookie receiver to come in and contribute, much less replace the kind of attention that Diggs drew from defenses.
There is an argument to be made from a best-use-of-resources perspective. Vikings were a running team spending nearly $30M on its wide receivers. THAT, I get. But in order for this to work, the Vikings have to turn this transaction into one HELL of a running game, despite the fact that, right now anyway, the key to beating the Vikings is simple: double Thielen and stack the box.
I would be curious to know what you think another team would have realistically offered where you would pull the trigger?
Two starters. So either a 1st and a player or a 1st and a 3rd--a player who should eventually start. Even then I'm not sure I do it. Yesterday, we were a team with a bunch of holes to fill on defense, but an offense that could conceivably become elite with better protection, or at least good enough to render a further downgrade on defense somewhat tolerable.
Today, we're a team who just took a significant blow to that offense...and the holes on defense are still there, too. Can we replace Diggs? Of course. We'll replace his spot on the roster. But I think people are underestimating just how hard it is to find a receiver of that caliber.
Go ahead, look at all the 1st round receivers at the link below...if you dare. It's not a pretty picture. Notice how many of them had little or no impact their rookie season, about 90%. Go back a decade, two decades. It's a parade of busts. No, you strike gold on a receiver like Diggs, you find a way to keep him. Oh, but those "cryptic tweets." LOL. People react as if he PERSONALLY offended them in some way. I'll show you, Diggs! SMH
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/wr
I do think that would be "ideal" but I do think the package we got has some overlooked aspects to it. The 1st round pick #22 is higher than most other WR trades outside of OBJ. Assuming they were going to trade Diggs out of the NFC this off-season in a WR heavy draft class the only other two teams that made any sense were the Broncos or Raiders. Denver would have been an interesting destination and maybe you could have gotten #15 out of them. But there is no precedence for them to include that pick with anything additional.
But if you look at only the late round picks and 2021 4th we got back, the net value of those picks equal a mid-3rd. So in a round about way they got a 1st and 3rd valuation through quantity.
I am very confident they wouldn't have gotten a better offer for Diggs this off-season. They could have kept him, the team had all the leverage. But if things digressed or he refused to show up his value would have decreased anyways. So moving him for a strong package now is a hedge and allows them time to fill the void he created.
30 TDs in 5 seasons played. Averaging just over 5 a season. I don't think his numbers are so high they can't be replaced. Only 2 1,000 yard seasons and just barely above 1,000.
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