Well we are certainly more than a QB from being the chiefs since we couldn't beat them with their stud QB on the sidelines.
It's easy to look at the playoff win and say how close this team is, but that is forgetting the dismal losses that this team had as well. Honestly I think we have a decent team with a couple ready good pieces, bit we are certainly not a quick or cheap fix IMO. It's going to take some serious draft day luck and a few other things to get this team to where the niners are.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
We're a lot closer to a 49ers type team than Chiefs...
Exactly. The Chiefs model is this: Get lucky on a QB in the draft. Great! When do we start? No, the Vikings are already the 49ers with a few tweaks.
We'll see how the Chefs handle Mahomes' first "$200 million break-the-bank" contract and what positions they sacrifice. A small market team from Kansas City should have no problem with that, right?
Quote: @Ralphie said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
We're a lot closer to a 49ers type team than Chiefs...
Exactly. The Chiefs model is this: Get lucky on a QB in the draft. Great! When do we start? No, the Vikings are already the 49ers with a few tweaks.
We'll see how the Chefs handle Mahomes' first "$200 million break-the-bank" contract and what positions they sacrifice. A small market team from Kansas City should have no problem with that, right?
What does their small market have to do with anything? The league has a salary cap and over time all teams are using their salary cap.
The only teams that won a SB with a mediocre QB on a rookie contract was the Eagles, but you could also include Flacco and Eli Manning before the rookie wage scale. The Seahawks and Chiefs won having elite QBs on rookie contracts which is huge. You can throw in Eli Manning and maybe Peyton Manning as non-elite QBs on veteran contracts winning the SB. The list of mediocre QBs making but not winning the SB expands on that list.
I think the evidence is pretty clear in that Elite QBs are much more likely to win the SB than mediocre QBs. That said Elite QBs aren't readily available many years. I think if you ever have the chance of drafting a potential elite QB, like a Rodgers, Wilson, or Lamar Jackson with later draft picks you should 100% do it. The payoff for hitting on the QB is immense and is worth all the costs. That said I don't think we're very far from being in the conversation as one of the few teams that could get lucky with a mediocre QB. I think regardless of who our QB is, we'll need to upgrade our OLine. Bad OLines and young/mediocre QBs is not a plan that is likely to succeed. I think we need an OLine upgrade a DT upgrade and some luck fixing our CBs.
Quote: @medaille said:
The only teams that won a SB with a mediocre QB on a rookie contract was the Eagles, but you could also include Flacco and Eli Manning before the rookie wage scale. The Seahawks and Chiefs won having elite QBs on rookie contracts which is huge. You can throw in Eli Manning and maybe Peyton Manning as non-elite QBs on veteran contracts winning the SB. The list of mediocre QBs making but not winning the SB expands on that list.
I think the evidence is pretty clear in that Elite QBs are much more likely to win the SB than mediocre QBs. That said Elite QBs aren't readily available many years. I think if you ever have the chance of drafting a potential elite QB, like a Rodgers, Wilson, or Lamar Jackson with later draft picks you should 100% do it. The payoff for hitting on the QB is immense and is worth all the costs. That said I don't think we're very far from being in the conversation as one of the few teams that could get lucky with a mediocre QB. I think regardless of who our QB is, we'll need to upgrade our OLine. Bad OLines and young/mediocre QBs is not a plan that is likely to succeed. I think we need an OLine upgrade a DT upgrade and some luck fixing our CBs.
with this said, I think instead of letting a mediocre or slightly above average veteran QB contract cripple the ability to improve other positions, we should focus our cap on improving the entire roster and make those positions pay more commensurate with their abilities and use veteran QBs that are willing to play at a wage more inline with what they bring to the team, in the mean time we need to be continually drafting early to mid round QBs until we hit on one and then keep drafting mid round QBs to try and keep that pipeline full. IMO we should be focusing our early draft picks on players that hit the cap hardest once they come off their rookie deals (ie QBs, OTs,WR, 3TDT, LB, DE) so that we dont end up having to overpay for a mediocre veteran in the future.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ Ralphie said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
We're a lot closer to a 49ers type team than Chiefs...
Exactly. The Chiefs model is this: Get lucky on a QB in the draft. Great! When do we start? No, the Vikings are already the 49ers with a few tweaks.
We'll see how the Chefs handle Mahomes' first "$200 million break-the-bank" contract and what positions they sacrifice. A small market team from Kansas City should have no problem with that, right?
What does their small market have to do with anything? The league has a salary cap and over time all teams are using their salary cap.
You are correct sir. I sit corrected! 
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
Well we are certainly more than a QB from being the chiefs since we couldn't beat them with their stud QB on the sidelines.
It's easy to look at the playoff win and say how close this team is, but that is forgetting the dismal losses that this team had as well. Honestly I think we have a decent team with a couple ready good pieces, bit we are certainly not a quick or cheap fix IMO. It's going to take some serious draft day luck and a few other things to get this team to where the niners are.
The Chiefs loss was Coaching. Plain and simple. Refused to do anything pre-snap to confuse a journeyman Backup QB who was out of football the previous season. Refuse to double Hill and Kelce. Refuse to give Elf help against Jones.
Bad Coaching. We saw it against Chicago and in both Green Bay games as well. And the 9ers. But we also saw good Coaching too. Mike's plan to shut down Zeke. The gameplan to shut down a red hot New Orleans Offense. Rebounding after the 3 quick scores in the 1st Packers game.
Where we didn't see much of was in-game adjustments by Barely Legal OC #2. Really, only Shumer has shown any ability to switch things up when the gameplan isn't working. Norv was all '7 Step Drop or Die'. Barely Legal OC #1 didn't appear to have a consistent plan ever.
Gary Kubiak is NOT D-Floppo or Stefanski. He's a proven commodity. That's turned no-name O-Linemen and RBs into winners. That's handled having 2 Stud Receivers. And gotten big production out of QBs that nobody else could.
Even if Mike continues to call the Defense I think you will see more adjustments as he is tasked with doing more with less instead of just trotting out his All Star Lineup and playing vanilla all day. And he's got new voices in his ear in the form of Dre and Baby Zimmer.
This Roster has holes. Just like the 9ers and Chiefs are facing. But let's not forget that the freaking backups nearly beat a Bears team that had found something late last season and played it's Starters the entire game. A .500 team needed a last second FG to beat Minnesota's backups.
Left Guards are not hard to find. Especially with great Coaches in Kubiak and Dennison helping the search. Zone Cornerbacks are apparently readily available at the nearest convenience store. It would be hard to get worse 3T play and yet the Defense was still Top 5.
I know you disagree and that's your prerogative. I just don't see this insurmountable hill and lack of talent you do. And I need to see what Cousins can do with the right Coaching in place. If he chokes under optimal conditions then it's time to think about moving up to get a QB. This Draft doesn't have it and I don't believe in forcing the issue unless someone falls in their lap.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Well we are certainly more than a QB from being the chiefs since we couldn't beat them with their stud QB on the sidelines.
It's easy to look at the playoff win and say how close this team is, but that is forgetting the dismal losses that this team had as well. Honestly I think we have a decent team with a couple ready good pieces, bit we are certainly not a quick or cheap fix IMO. It's going to take some serious draft day luck and a few other things to get this team to where the niners are.
The Chiefs loss was Coaching. Plain and simple. Refused to do anything pre-snap to confuse a journeyman Backup QB who was out of football the previous season. Refuse to double Hill and Kelce. Refuse to give Elf help against Jones.
Bad Coaching. We saw it against Chicago and in both Green Bay games as well. And the 9ers. But we also saw good Coaching too. Mike's plan to shut down Zeke. The gameplan to shut down a red hot New Orleans Offense. Rebounding after the 3 quick scores in the 1st Packers game.
Where we didn't see much of was in-game adjustments by Barely Legal OC #2. Really, only Shumer has shown any ability to switch things up when the gameplan isn't working. Norv was all '7 Step Drop or Die'. Barely Legal OC #1 didn't appear to have a consistent plan ever.
Gary Kubiak is NOT D-Floppo or Stefanski. He's a proven commodity. That's turned no-name O-Linemen and RBs into winners. That's handled having 2 Stud Receivers. And gotten big production out of QBs that nobody else could.
Even if Mike continues to call the Defense I think you will see more adjustments as he is tasked with doing more with less instead of just trotting out his All Star Lineup and playing vanilla all day. And he's got new voices in his ear in the form of Dre and Baby Zimmer.
This Roster has holes. Just like the 9ers and Chiefs are facing. But let's not forget that the freaking backups nearly beat a Bears team that had found something late last season and played it's Starters the entire game. A .500 team needed a last second FG to beat Minnesota's backups.
Left Guards are not hard to find. Especially with great Coaches in Kubiak and Dennison helping the search. Zone Cornerbacks are apparently readily available at the nearest convenience store. It would be hard to get worse 3T play and yet the Defense was still Top 5.
I know you disagree and that's your prerogative. I just don't see this insurmountable hill and lack of talent you do. And I need to see what Cousins can do with the right Coaching in place. If he chokes under optimal conditions then it's time to think about moving up to get a QB. This Draft doesn't have it and I don't believe in forcing the issue unless someone falls in their lap.
but then they cant extend Cousins to create cap space this year as many are calling for or what would be the point in taking a gift QB if one were to fall into their lap, or at least drop far enough to where they are able to move up and grab one.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Well we are certainly more than a QB from being the chiefs since we couldn't beat them with their stud QB on the sidelines.
It's easy to look at the playoff win and say how close this team is, but that is forgetting the dismal losses that this team had as well. Honestly I think we have a decent team with a couple ready good pieces, bit we are certainly not a quick or cheap fix IMO. It's going to take some serious draft day luck and a few other things to get this team to where the niners are.
The Chiefs loss was Coaching. Plain and simple. Refused to do anything pre-snap to confuse a journeyman Backup QB who was out of football the previous season. Refuse to double Hill and Kelce. Refuse to give Elf help against Jones.
Bad Coaching. We saw it against Chicago and in both Green Bay games as well. And the 9ers. But we also saw good Coaching too. Mike's plan to shut down Zeke. The gameplan to shut down a red hot New Orleans Offense. Rebounding after the 3 quick scores in the 1st Packers game.
Where we didn't see much of was in-game adjustments by Barely Legal OC #2. Really, only Shumer has shown any ability to switch things up when the gameplan isn't working. Norv was all '7 Step Drop or Die'. Barely Legal OC #1 didn't appear to have a consistent plan ever.
Gary Kubiak is NOT D-Floppo or Stefanski. He's a proven commodity. That's turned no-name O-Linemen and RBs into winners. That's handled having 2 Stud Receivers. And gotten big production out of QBs that nobody else could.
Even if Mike continues to call the Defense I think you will see more adjustments as he is tasked with doing more with less instead of just trotting out his All Star Lineup and playing vanilla all day. And he's got new voices in his ear in the form of Dre and Baby Zimmer.
This Roster has holes. Just like the 9ers and Chiefs are facing. But let's not forget that the freaking backups nearly beat a Bears team that had found something late last season and played it's Starters the entire game. A .500 team needed a last second FG to beat Minnesota's backups.
Left Guards are not hard to find. Especially with great Coaches in Kubiak and Dennison helping the search. Zone Cornerbacks are apparently readily available at the nearest convenience store. It would be hard to get worse 3T play and yet the Defense was still Top 5.
I know you disagree and that's your prerogative. I just don't see this insurmountable hill and lack of talent you do. And I need to see what Cousins can do with the right Coaching in place. If he chokes under optimal conditions then it's time to think about moving up to get a QB. This Draft doesn't have it and I don't believe in forcing the issue unless someone falls in their lap.
but then they cant extend Cousins to create cap space this year as many are calling for or what would be the point in taking a gift QB if one were to fall into their lap, or at least drop far enough to where they are able to move up and grab one.
I'm not calling for extending Cousins. 1 Tier 2 OG or a 3rd or 2nd Round Draft Pick fills the most glaring hole. 1 Tier 2 CB and/or a 1st or 2nd Round Draft Pick addresses another need. I believe the 3T can be fixed with a 2nd Round selection of Elliott or Madubuike.
That can all be accomplished without extending Cousins.
As for the QB, if they truly believe in say Jordan Love and he slides to 20 then go up and get him. I don't see it with him and highly doubt he falls that far but go for it. Might have to lean more on Tier 2 or Tier 3 Free Agents instead of high round Rookies but they should still field a better supporting cast so they can make a truly informed decision on Cousins.
If we can't follow the Chiefs model (betting the farm to try to get an elite QB)... maybe we can follow the 49ers model: have our dream QB be a bust, lose alot of games for a few years, and then use all those high draft picks to do a quick makeover and become a contender again.
I just wonder how many fans would be willing to suck for half a decade, just for the chance of starting over with a bunch of young, cheap, highly-drafted players.
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