Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Is anyone wishing we had drafted OL differently last spring? I liked Bradbury but TBH, as I was listening to the draft, when Andre Dillard was still on the board I thought we would take him. My primary reasoning was essentially, "LT is the hardest position to fill on the line and if you can get a good one you take him." Dillard sat for his rookie season so maybe he was a disappointment, but can't help wish we had a young prospect to step in for Reiff. Would Elflein have played as badly at C as he did at LG? How much better was Bradbury at C than Elf? I know the idea was that the Bradbury pick would improve 2 positions, C and LG, but that didn't work. Now we're looking for an LT at the 25th pick and still need LG and about to discard Elflein.
I know it's all moot and hindsight now but interested in others' thoughts on the prospects involved, in 2019 and 2020.
I was surprised Dillard was still there, but taking him would've been complicated. He was undersized, a developmental guy, someone who probably wouldn't be able to help us right away, especially considering that Reiff had just finished the 2nd year of a 5-year contract, and the Vikings were in peak window.
Bradbury was the prototypical zone center we could plug into Kubiak's wide zone right away and he could execute all the necessary reach blocks to make the run game go, which we saw early on. The biggest problem for Elf was that he missed so many of the line calls last year. I think that improved a lot this year with Brad making them.
I think the Vikings made the right decision. It improved our line right away and Bradbury's upside is huge (as is Dillards). I keep thinking that it might make sense to bring in an old guy for 1 year--a Peters or a Whitworth--and draft our own developmental tackle in the 2nd or 3rd round.
I was surprised Jeffrey Simmons was there. That is who I wanted.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
If the 2019 draft proved anything, they value O-line positions evenly. Some teams would never pass of an OT for an interior O-lineman. .
It might also indicate that our GM tends to get a bit "locked in" at a position for round 1. In 2011 he was picking a QB no matter how many went ahead of us, and in 2016 nothing was stopping us from taking a WR first - was he dead set on taking Interior OL in 2019? It was definitely a need last spring but maybe you shift the plan if a LT slides to you.
And I know you prescribe leaving O'Neill at RT but the Vikings seem to scheme a lot of "add one player and move another to fix 2 positions" ideas intended to improve the OL. I think they see Udoh as a late-round gem and unless they think he can play LT I think O'Neill will be moved to clear the way for Oli.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
If the 2019 draft proved anything, they value O-line positions evenly. Some teams would never pass of an OT for an interior O-lineman. .
It might also indicate that our GM tends to get a bit "locked in" at a position for round 1. In 2011 he was picking a QB no matter how many went ahead of us, and in 2016 nothing was stopping us from taking a WR first - was he dead set on taking Interior OL in 2019? It was definitely a need last spring but maybe you shift the plan if a LT slides to you.
And I know you prescribe leaving O'Neill at RT but the Vikings seem to scheme a lot of "add one player and move another to fix 2 positions" ideas intended to improve the OL. I think they see Udoh as a late-round gem and unless they think he can play LT I think O'Neill will be moved to clear the way for Oli.
Even in a worst case scenario, wherein we don't add anyone at all in free agency or the draft, the line has some low-key promise....
LT- O'Neill, Hill
LG- Reiff, Samia, Elf
C- Bradbury, Elf
RG-Kline, Samia
RT - Odoh, Collins
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
If the 2019 draft proved anything, they value O-line positions evenly. Some teams would never pass of an OT for an interior O-lineman. .
It might also indicate that our GM tends to get a bit "locked in" at a position for round 1. In 2011 he was picking a QB no matter how many went ahead of us, and in 2016 nothing was stopping us from taking a WR first - was he dead set on taking Interior OL in 2019? It was definitely a need last spring but maybe you shift the plan if a LT slides to you.
And I know you prescribe leaving O'Neill at RT but the Vikings seem to scheme a lot of "add one player and move another to fix 2 positions" ideas intended to improve the OL. I think they see Udoh as a late-round gem and unless they think he can play LT I think O'Neill will be moved to clear the way for Oli.
That could be the case when it comes to Udoh. I think they probably slot him into Rashod Hill's role as a swing tackle until we see more. But the FO has more film on him than us. If they are extremely confident in Udoh (which they may be) it could make MN a player in the guard market since they could dump Reiff. I probably wouldn't foresee going after Scherff or Thuney, but someone like McGovern or Glasgow would make some sense. Then you play around with O'Neill / Hill / Udoh to see which combination you like best. I'll say this about Hill, they liked him enough in 2018 to walk into TC with him as the starting RT.
Circling back to being "locked in" while drafting. I think a lot of teams are like that. You want to fill your largest needs early when you still have the pick of the litter. In the Vikings case they didn't choose the right players at the positions they were targeting. Using hindsight in 2011 they should have chosen Dalton over Ponder and in 2016 Michael Thomas over Treadwell. The narrative changes if they swap the players.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
If the 2019 draft proved anything, they value O-line positions evenly. Some teams would never pass of an OT for an interior O-lineman. .
It might also indicate that our GM tends to get a bit "locked in" at a position for round 1. In 2011 he was picking a QB no matter how many went ahead of us, and in 2016 nothing was stopping us from taking a WR first - was he dead set on taking Interior OL in 2019? It was definitely a need last spring but maybe you shift the plan if a LT slides to you.
And I know you prescribe leaving O'Neill at RT but the Vikings seem to scheme a lot of "add one player and move another to fix 2 positions" ideas intended to improve the OL. I think they see Udoh as a late-round gem and unless they think he can play LT I think O'Neill will be moved to clear the way for Oli.
Even in a worst case scenario, wherein we don't add anyone at all in free agency or the draft, the line has some low-key promise....
LT- O'Neill, Hill
LG- Reiff, Samia, Elf
C- Bradbury, Elf
RG-Kline, Samia
RT - Odoh, Collins
It is times better than they've had in the past. At a minimum they can at least focus on starting the best 5 lineman vs. the only 5 starting quality guys we have. Yes, that is Mike Remmers playing guard (a position he's never played).
what is the story with Collins? his first year he looked like a candidate for LT of the future, then they moved him inside to OG prior to 2018 and he was looking pretty good at LG before getting hurt, he comes back this year at OT and is playing behind Reiff and Hill, do they still think they have something in this kid or has his injury history made him to much of a liability to count on as a candidate to compete for a starting roll?
I don't think you mess with O'Neill at RT after thinking about it some. If you draft a true RT and the move to LT doesn't work for O'Neill... Then we truly are not in any better position than we started. I think you look for LT's only and leave well enough alone at RT.
Short answer... I now agree with Geoff lol
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