Quote: @greediron said:
@ Mattyman said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Bullazin said:
You wanna really stir shit up hire Wade Phillips, I would love that move personally. No clue on the offense but Mike McCoy needs a job. Just wild speculation
One thing is for certain if you hire Wade...Barr would be worth his contract...
How they use Barr gets a C grade from me most games. That dude should have 10-12 sacks per year.
How is it that fans say with certainty that Barr should have 10+ sacks a year and yet Zimmer doesn't see it or use him in that way?
Non-rhetorical question.
If Barr is a a skilled pass rusher, why'd he resign for less money, so his talents and abilities can be misused or even wasted?
Doesn't make sense to me.
In the SF it was apparent that both lines were not good enough to advance. No amount of scheme or play calling can overcome the lack of ability.
Leaving Patterson and Dennison to focus on their core competency makes more sense to me.
Because Barr is not Mack. Yes he could pressure the QB, but can he play the run and hold up in all phases of the game on the DLine? Doubt it. He is a critical piece in the D. Anyone remember the NO game? How many big plays did Thomas have? Guess why? Barr was covering Thomas in the slot part of the time. Name another LB that can do that? name another team that has tried that.
Kamara was rather silent that game as well. Wonder why? Because our LBs rocked that game. Just like SF's LBs were the difference last week against us. Their coverage killed us and made Cousins hold the ball.
Even in the SF game, there is one play that stood out when talking about Barr. SF was able to pound the ball and so the play action was working. Barr and EK reacted to the PA, but Barr also read the pass and sprinted about 15 yards down the field to cover a WR/TE. I remember it because he recovered so well, but the pass was perfect and the receiver made an incredible catch with Barr so close to knocking it away.
That is what he does, he covers lots of field with a large frame, speed and agility. Same things that would make him a good pass rusher (burst, cutting ability) make him a serious weapon to take away so much of the field.
The problem with our D this year wasn't Barr. It was no threat at 3T.
I 100% agree with this. Barr does so much for our defense and he does the things many LBs can't do due to his speed and movement. He does so much dirty work that Zimmer asks of him. Zimmer wouldn't have paid him that much money if he was just an average player in his role.
The 3T is a major issue and that is a must in Zimmers defense. It sucks we had Floyd and we passed on Donald because of it. Or that is what I think anyways.
Quote: @Mattyman said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Bullazin said:
You wanna really stir shit up hire Wade Phillips, I would love that move personally. No clue on the offense but Mike McCoy needs a job. Just wild speculation
One thing is for certain if you hire Wade...Barr would be worth his contract...
How they use Barr gets a C grade from me most games. That dude should have 10-12 sacks per year.
How is it that fans say with certainty that Barr should have 10+ sacks a year and yet Zimmer doesn't see it or use him in that way?
Non-rhetorical question.
If Barr is a a skilled pass rusher, why'd he resign for less money, so his talents and abilities can be misused or even wasted?
Doesn't make sense to me.
In the SF it was apparent that both lines were not good enough to advance. No amount of scheme or play calling can overcome the lack of ability.
Leaving Patterson and Dennison to focus on their core competency makes more sense to me.
As for why Barr re-signed here knowing he might get better stats elsewhere - man, I know a lot of people with tremendous talent in their careers who could get jobs with more prestige and money and such, but choose to stay at a smaller company forever. Hell, I am tempted to say that the ones who are most eager to move around and seek more glory are often those who are less talented.
They are human and sometimes just want familiarity and comfort. Move to New York, new city, new coach, new teammates, new scheme and role - vs. stay with friends, coach who loves him, city he knows. IDK if Barr spends offseason time here but he established a nonprofit in Minnesota so he's setting some roots. The offer to stay wasn't that much less, and Barr will be 32 when this contract is over, so he probably isn't building big stats for a 3rd contract.
And "familiarity" is a motivator for why the team kept Barr, too. It might be happening too often. They like Everson Griffen personally and really wanted to support him after his personal troubles of 2018 - but should they have let him go, saved his salary, and given Weatherly a full season as starter before they have to decide whether to re-sign him? There are going to be more decisions like that now, around Griffen, Rhodes, Joseph, maybe others on the defense. Even Stefon Diggs might be benefitting from sentiment in decision-making - he's a great WR, I love him, would hate to lose him, but if we want to be a run-heavy offense, do we pay 2 WRs top 15 salaries?
Spielman has been pretty successful acquiring talented players and done well keeping them signed, but I don't yet know if he knows when and how to part ways with them.
How about some more wild speculation- hire Mike LaFleur from the 49ers as OC. He fits the system perfectly and would be a dagger to the fudge, LOL
Quote: @Bullazin said:
How about some more wild speculation- hire Mike LaFleur from the 49ers as OC. He fits the system perfectly and would be a dagger to the fudge, LOL
That is actually not a bad idea lol.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ Mattyman said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Bullazin said:
You wanna really stir shit up hire Wade Phillips, I would love that move personally. No clue on the offense but Mike McCoy needs a job. Just wild speculation
One thing is for certain if you hire Wade...Barr would be worth his contract...
How they use Barr gets a C grade from me most games. That dude should have 10-12 sacks per year.
How is it that fans say with certainty that Barr should have 10+ sacks a year and yet Zimmer doesn't see it or use him in that way?
Non-rhetorical question.
If Barr is a a skilled pass rusher, why'd he resign for less money, so his talents and abilities can be misused or even wasted?
Doesn't make sense to me.
In the SF it was apparent that both lines were not good enough to advance. No amount of scheme or play calling can overcome the lack of ability.
Leaving Patterson and Dennison to focus on their core competency makes more sense to me.
Spielman has been pretty successful acquiring talented players and done well keeping them signed, but I don't yet know if he knows when and how to part ways with them.
You put it kindly but I think it's fairly definitive that up to this point, he does not know how to part ways with players. This offseason will be very interesting.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ Mattyman said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Bullazin said:
You wanna really stir shit up hire Wade Phillips, I would love that move personally. No clue on the offense but Mike McCoy needs a job. Just wild speculation
One thing is for certain if you hire Wade...Barr would be worth his contract...
How they use Barr gets a C grade from me most games. That dude should have 10-12 sacks per year.
How is it that fans say with certainty that Barr should have 10+ sacks a year and yet Zimmer doesn't see it or use him in that way?
Non-rhetorical question.
If Barr is a a skilled pass rusher, why'd he resign for less money, so his talents and abilities can be misused or even wasted?
Doesn't make sense to me.
In the SF it was apparent that both lines were not good enough to advance. No amount of scheme or play calling can overcome the lack of ability.
Leaving Patterson and Dennison to focus on their core competency makes more sense to me.
Spielman has been pretty successful acquiring talented players and done well keeping them signed, but I don't yet know if he knows when and how to part ways with them.
I think that's fair. I think Rick is proud of the fact that the Vikings have been so successful (much more successful than most) at drafting, developing and finding ways to keep their talent, and the good will that it generates, that it's hard for him to let them go when it's time. I think of Jared Allen and how we kept him maybe a season longer than we should have. Fans of Brian Robison might have something to say about that though.
I think we can all agree that Rhodes, Joseph, Griffen and Reiff (in that order) are on the bubble. But there are a couple more harder to swallow names who might be on the bubble depending on how heavy the axe falls. Thinking Rudy and Harry, for example. Cutting Rudy only nets you $3M, but in terms of depth chart, his loss isn't felt as much as others would be. Losing Harry would suck, but it saves $8M. Teams can't typically have two safeties of that quality (and cost). Harris is younger...and probably better. Hard to fathom the team moving on from Harry though.
Barr is a lot like Jaylon Smith IMO. Smith doesn't get huge stats or a lot of splash plays but his versatility allows Vanderwhatever and the other LBs to shine. Kendricks is currently the best LB in the League and I bet he'd be the first to tell you he couldn't be as successful without Barr.
Cutting Rudy would be tough. Just had his best season as a blocker, which is the teams biggest weakness. And he's still a big RedZone threat. Cutting Smith also hurts. He's not quite the cover guy he used to be but his presence in the box drives QBs nuts trying to figure out if he's blitzing or not.
When Harry fakes the blitz but can't get back in coverage fast enough then his time will have come. Just don't think it's now.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ Mattyman said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Bullazin said:
You wanna really stir shit up hire Wade Phillips, I would love that move personally. No clue on the offense but Mike McCoy needs a job. Just wild speculation
One thing is for certain if you hire Wade...Barr would be worth his contract...
How they use Barr gets a C grade from me most games. That dude should have 10-12 sacks per year.
How is it that fans say with certainty that Barr should have 10+ sacks a year and yet Zimmer doesn't see it or use him in that way?
Non-rhetorical question.
If Barr is a a skilled pass rusher, why'd he resign for less money, so his talents and abilities can be misused or even wasted?
Doesn't make sense to me.
In the SF it was apparent that both lines were not good enough to advance. No amount of scheme or play calling can overcome the lack of ability.
Leaving Patterson and Dennison to focus on their core competency makes more sense to me.
Spielman has been pretty successful acquiring talented players and done well keeping them signed, but I don't yet know if he knows when and how to part ways with them.
I think that's fair. I think Rick is proud of the fact that the Vikings have been so successful (much more successful than most) at drafting, developing and finding ways to keep their talent, and the good will that it generates, that it's hard for him to let them go when it's time. I think of Jared Allen and how we kept him maybe a season longer than we should have. Fans of Brian Robison might have something to say about that though.
I think we can all agree that Rhodes, Joseph, Griffen and Reiff (in that order) are on the bubble. But there are a couple more harder to swallow names who might be on the bubble depending on how heavy the axe falls. Thinking Rudy and Harry, for example. Cutting Rudy only nets you $3M, but in terms of depth chart, his loss isn't felt as much as others would be. Losing Harry would suck, but it saves $8M. Teams can't typically have two safeties of that quality (and cost). Harris is younger...and probably better. Hard to fathom the team moving on from Harry though.
Doubt them move on from Harry. He and Barr are the quiet centerpieces of this D.
Sadly, Rudy may be another lifelong Viking that gets the business end of the axe. I hope not as I think he has tremendous value that most fans don't see. Not sure what Joseph's contract is, but I hope we can get another year out of him. He seemed not as effective, but some of that may be lack of a good 3T next to him this year. But it could be injuries as well.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ Mattyman said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Bullazin said:
You wanna really stir shit up hire Wade Phillips, I would love that move personally. No clue on the offense but Mike McCoy needs a job. Just wild speculation
One thing is for certain if you hire Wade...Barr would be worth his contract...
How they use Barr gets a C grade from me most games. That dude should have 10-12 sacks per year.
How is it that fans say with certainty that Barr should have 10+ sacks a year and yet Zimmer doesn't see it or use him in that way?
Non-rhetorical question.
If Barr is a a skilled pass rusher, why'd he resign for less money, so his talents and abilities can be misused or even wasted?
Doesn't make sense to me.
In the SF it was apparent that both lines were not good enough to advance. No amount of scheme or play calling can overcome the lack of ability.
Leaving Patterson and Dennison to focus on their core competency makes more sense to me.
Spielman has been pretty successful acquiring talented players and done well keeping them signed, but I don't yet know if he knows when and how to part ways with them.
I think that's fair. I think Rick is proud of the fact that the Vikings have been so successful (much more successful than most) at drafting, developing and finding ways to keep their talent, and the good will that it generates, that it's hard for him to let them go when it's time. I think of Jared Allen and how we kept him maybe a season longer than we should have. Fans of Brian Robison might have something to say about that though.
I think we can all agree that Rhodes, Joseph, Griffen and Reiff (in that order) are on the bubble. But there are a couple more harder to swallow names who might be on the bubble depending on how heavy the axe falls. Thinking Rudy and Harry, for example. Cutting Rudy only nets you $3M, but in terms of depth chart, his loss isn't felt as much as others would be. Losing Harry would suck, but it saves $8M. Teams can't typically have two safeties of that quality (and cost). Harris is younger...and probably better. Hard to fathom the team moving on from Harry though.
Doubt them move on from Harry. He and Barr are the quiet centerpieces of this D.
Sadly, Rudy may be another lifelong Viking that gets the business end of the axe. I hope not as I think he has tremendous value that most fans don't see. Not sure what Joseph's contract is, but I hope we can get another year out of him. He seemed not as effective, but some of that may be lack of a good 3T next to him this year. But it could be injuries as well.
I could see Rudy a Patriot for sure. Especially if Brady comes back.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
I think we can all agree that Rhodes, Joseph, Griffen and Reiff (in that order) are on the bubble. But there are a couple more harder to swallow names who might be on the bubble depending on how heavy the axe falls. Thinking Rudy and Harry, for example. Cutting Rudy only nets you $3M, but in terms of depth chart, his loss isn't felt as much as others would be. Losing Harry would suck, but it saves $8M. Teams can't typically have two safeties of that quality (and cost). Harris is younger...and probably better. Hard to fathom the team moving on from Harry though.
Although I'm in favor of seeing more aggressive changes with regards to finding a different QB than some others here, my plan B is what some of you guys are saying: improve the OL, get younger. I see that as a bandaid, but at least it would give me some hope.
Absolute doomsday/break the glass scenario is the Vikings extend Zimmer and Rick, retain 90% of the players you just mentioned with re-structured deals, and then also go defense in the Draft. They couldn't possibly do this to us... could they? *gulp*
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