Quote: @holmanjp said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Its going to be interesting to see how this plays-out...
10/6 isn't that terribly disappointing...But yet I'll bet Zygi and Mark aren't terribly impressed either.
I wonder if the Wilfs have a good system in place to "measure what matters" as they assess the year whenever/however the season ends?
I dont think Zimmer has to win in NOLA to keep his job. But a playoff melt-down? On top of getting swept by GB and Chicago? Thats not a good year - on top of last season too.
Its going to uncomfortable hellos in the hallowed Eagan Palace hallways in 2020...
Agree. I don't think he has to win necessarily. But if the Vikings get embarrassed, ala two weeks ago or week 17 last year or in Philly two years ago, things are gonna get dicey in Eagan.
No 11-10 win coach deserves a pink slip, especially one who has taken his team to the playoffs 3 out of the last 5 6 years. (you could have said 2 of 3 sounds better yet)
FIFY
Sure, it will go down in history as 10 wins and no one will remember that the Vikings didn't play to win their final game. But for purposes of team and coach evaluation, this was an 11-win team.
It's a shame we lost on a last second field goal, considering how our 3rd string very clearly outplayed the Bears starters.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Its going to be interesting to see how this plays-out...
10/6 isn't that terribly disappointing...But yet I'll bet Zygi and Mark aren't terribly impressed either.
I wonder if the Wilfs have a good system in place to "measure what matters" as they assess the year whenever/however the season ends?
I dont think Zimmer has to win in NOLA to keep his job. But a playoff melt-down? On top of getting swept by GB and Chicago? Thats not a good year - on top of last season too.
Its going to uncomfortable hellos in the hallowed Eagan Palace hallways in 2020...
Agree. I don't think he has to win necessarily. But if the Vikings get embarrassed, ala two weeks ago or week 17 last year or in Philly two years ago, things are gonna get dicey in Eagan.
No 11-win coach deserves a pink slip, especially one who has taken his team to the playoffs 3 out of the last 5 years. But if you look at this thing objectively, and in proper perspective of the rest of the NFL, you see a roster stacked with talent, but who has a handful of games every season where they just seem out-smarted, out-schemed...where the game plan the Vikings drew up was just completely wrong.
I go back and forth on this...
All Pro Potential:
AT/Diggs
Cook
Hunter
Pro-Bowl
Kendricks
Cousins (maybe)
DL Rotation as a whole
Better than Avg
Lacks superior talent @ RDE and 3t
OL
Poor
Dbackfield
Over-rated as a unit
Dirty Harry wrong side of 30, not as dominant any more
ST's
Avg
Key Positions:
QB: > Avg
LT: < Poor
RDE: Avg, wrong side of 30
I dont net out as a stacked roster underperforming. I net-out as a slightly above avg roster that has key positions the wrong side of 30 - and some nice pieces here and there.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ holmanjp said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Its going to be interesting to see how this plays-out...
10/6 isn't that terribly disappointing...But yet I'll bet Zygi and Mark aren't terribly impressed either.
I wonder if the Wilfs have a good system in place to "measure what matters" as they assess the year whenever/however the season ends?
I dont think Zimmer has to win in NOLA to keep his job. But a playoff melt-down? On top of getting swept by GB and Chicago? Thats not a good year - on top of last season too.
Its going to uncomfortable hellos in the hallowed Eagan Palace hallways in 2020...
Agree. I don't think he has to win necessarily. But if the Vikings get embarrassed, ala two weeks ago or week 17 last year or in Philly two years ago, things are gonna get dicey in Eagan.
No 11-10 win coach deserves a pink slip, especially one who has taken his team to the playoffs 3 out of the last 5 6 years. (you could have said 2 of 3 sounds better yet)
FIFY
Sure, it will go down in history as 10 wins and no one will remember that the Vikings didn't play to win their final game. But for purposes of team and coach evaluation, this was an 11-win team.
It's a shame we lost on a last second field goal, considering how our 3rd string very clearly outplayed the Bears starters.
Maybe,
In 2018 (had MN already been in the playoffs)
Week 17 against the Bears.
Had they rested the starters then and lost would you assume Mn was an 9-6-1 team?
Because you think the starters would have won? They did not when it mattered most.
You can speculate starters might have won this year all you want. I would not put it past
then to have lost also.
Minnesota played its 2nd & 3rd string against Chicago's Starters and lost on a late field goal. The Starters would have won this game. Period. No matter anyone's issues with Cousins he would have played better than Mannion.
I'll say it again. Brees is more reliant on Thomas and Kamara then ever before and the stats show it. If Zimmer finds a way to slow them down there's a real chance here.
I think it is the way we played in the games we lost that really have taken the excitement out of this team. Had we lost the way the Seahawks did last week, fighting all the way through the game and playing hard, then I think there would be a lot of optimism, but in our big games we come out like we did against GB, which was a carbon copy of the game we played against the Bears last year. I am grateful we get an extra game and I do believe we have the talent to win and can win, but I expect the more likely scenario will be to see the team that showed up (or didn't show up) against GB.
I definitely think the Saints are better than the Vikings, but it's the NFL so we absolutely have a chance.
What's curious to me is the idea that the team will "go for broke/play all out/throw everything at them", etc.
1. Zimmer almost never does this, so he probably won't.2. Going "all out" = greater chance of getting blown out. If Zim gets blown out, he might get fired. It's smart for him to reduce that possibility.
I agree with everyone that I'd like to see us go all out. I just don't think we will see that.
I don't know, Patt. Zimmer typically only schemes for QBs he respects. Seems to have a specific plan to slow down Rodgers, Brees and Wilson. The 1st GB game he played Vanilla so he could see what their Offense looked like under LeFleur. But they were prepared the second time and did pretty good until they got gassed.
He's had specific plans in the past that have slowed Brees down for stretches. The problem is that Payton adjusts and Mike can't counter.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Its going to be interesting to see how this plays-out...
10/6 isn't that terribly disappointing...But yet I'll bet Zygi and Mark aren't terribly impressed either.
I wonder if the Wilfs have a good system in place to "measure what matters" as they assess the year whenever/however the season ends?
I dont think Zimmer has to win in NOLA to keep his job. But a playoff melt-down? On top of getting swept by GB and Chicago? Thats not a good year - on top of last season too.
Its going to uncomfortable hellos in the hallowed Eagan Palace hallways in 2020...
Agree. I don't think he has to win necessarily. But if the Vikings get embarrassed, ala two weeks ago or week 17 last year or in Philly two years ago, things are gonna get dicey in Eagan.
No 11-win coach deserves a pink slip, especially one who has taken his team to the playoffs 3 out of the last 5 years. But if you look at this thing objectively, and in proper perspective of the rest of the NFL, you see a roster stacked with talent, but who has a handful of games every season where they just seem out-smarted, out-schemed...where the game plan the Vikings drew up was just completely wrong.
I go back and forth on this...
All Pro Potential:
AT/Diggs
Cook
Hunter
Pro-Bowl
Kendricks
Cousins (maybe)
DL Rotation as a whole
Better than Avg
Lacks superior talent @ RDE and 3t
OL
Poor
Dbackfield
Over-rated as a unit
Dirty Harry wrong side of 30, not as dominant any more
ST's
Avg
Key Positions:
QB: > Avg
LT: < Poor
RDE: Avg, wrong side of 30
I dont net out as a stacked roster underperforming. I net-out as a slightly above avg roster that has key positions the wrong side of 30 - and some nice pieces here and there.
Now compare it to other teams in the NFL and how they have acquired talent over the same time period.
Trust me, it's not typical in NFL to have TWO safeties like Harry and Harris. It's not typical to have TWO linebackers like Barr and Kendricks. It's not typical to have two edge rushers like Griff and Hunter, two wideouts like Thielen and Diggs, two RBs like Cook and Mattison. It's not typical to have all that and also have a Pro Bowl level QB running it all.
It's not a biased view at all to say that this is a very talented roster. It's frequently among the top 10, if not top 5 rosters when the media ranks them. Subjective, of course, but I think the Vikings #3 PFF team grade supports that as well. If you pay close attention to the draft, you tend to get a pretty good feel for where talent is distributed across the NFL. And the Vikings are loaded with it.
I wish the problem were as simple as a lack of talent. That's easy to fix: get more talent. But the problem, IMO, is more complex. It's tied up in game planning, preparedness, inconsistent line play, a QB who, while very talented, has occasional "IT" problems, a former shut down CB the defense relied upon who is no longer that.
|
