Lack of Play Action on Monday's debacle

[TBro]

For those of you that don't subscribe to the Athletic, Arif Hassan does some great breakdowns after Vikings games including his Vikings Mailbag section. 

Vikings normally run play action on 32.8% of their drop backs. Against Green Bay, that percentage shrunk to 13.9% which was clear to all of us and commented on multiple times by media and VikeFans members. 

Arif's summary is quite concerning and seems to keep repeating itself when we go against good teams during the Zimmer era. 

"The issue isn’t that they abandoned play-action. The issue is that they didn’t have a response to the scenario where Green Bay took away play-action — something they should have anticipated because Green Bay did the exact same thing the last time they played. Even if this had been the first matchup against the Packers, offenses simply need an answer to what happens when the primary strategy is taken away. The Vikings either didn’t have one or couldn’t execute one." Arif Hassan

So that begs the question, if Play Action is taken away by the opponent, do we have an alternative strategy we can execute to effectively move the ball and score points? I have yet to see one displayed this year, but I'm sure someone will remind me of one if there was one. 

[Guest]

I think he answered his own question.  We dont have the answer and I susupect it has something to do with the lack of quality OL play against defenses that have the skill and size to collapse the interior of our line and still the athleticism to come off the edges.  strong/quick DT play has been this OLs achilles this year and unfortunately I dont think that is a 1 player fix,  or one that will easily fit in our zone blocking scheme,  I think to find OGs that can stonewall these fast and strong DTs we are going to need to sacrifice some of the athleticism for pulling that we seem to be favoring these days.  (not saying there arent strong athletic OGs that can get out on sweeps and stuff,  but they are certainly harder to find,  but if they are going to stay with this scheme and Cousins as the QB,  they better fix this issue because we play at least 4 games every year where this issue is going to get exposed.

[Guest]

Bingo Jimmy...

KS should have had a plan B that was more creative, but the Vikings OL talent isn't there to counter what personnel like GB on D can do to an outside zone. 

Last year the OL let us down @ home vs Chicago (the D too for that matter). They may still do that on top of being beaten soundly by GB. 

As much as the NFL has evolved, the game is still won/lost in the trenches. 

FSU is right, RS better double-down on OL this off-season. Especially with KC @ QB. 

Something really lacking with the mental fortitude of this team @ times, key times. That comes from Zimmer on down. 

[Guest]

Stefanski had a Grand Plan to show Playoff Teams that Minnesota was tired of seeing stacked boxes and were going to come out, Pass Protect, and attack Green Bay in the intermediate and deep parts of the field and he would do the same to any opponents who tried the same thing. It would have been a good plan except he apparently hasn't been watching any replays of the 2nd half of the season cuz the Pukers didn't even need to do anything special scheme-wise to stuff the run or harass the QB,

The Vikings O-Line has struggled to get the run going since Dallas. Denver and Detroit were stout on the interior. Seattle had the crowd noise. The Chargers were mostly about their edge rushers and you can scheme around that with screens, misdirection and all the other stuff teams do to mitigate Hunter and Griff cuz they have zero fear of Joseph and Shamar.

But GB had both speed (Smith) and power (Clark) in the middle AND off the edges. Really, they didn't even need the edge pressure. Kirk Cousins simply can't handle interior pressure. Period. And it's not a knock on him. Even Elite QBs hate interior pressure. But Ben is big enough to shake off a tackler and still throw the ball. Brady & Brees are the best lateral movers in the pocket of all time. Rodgers and the New Era kids (Mahomes/Watson/Jackson) simply scramble away from it. Kirk doesn't have the pocket movement skills and obviously doesn't have the athleticism.

As soon as it became painfully obvious that the interior couldn't open holes OR Pass Protect Stefanski should have gone Shotgun. But that's easier said than done. Zimmer wants to run the ball. Kubiak wants to run the ball. Cousins wants to run the ball. As soon as you go Shotgun or Hurry Up you're making a tacit admission that you can't run the ball. And you take away Kirk's #1 asset: Play Action Passing.

Shorgun. 3 Wides plus Rudy & Irv. No Fullback. Boone gets a few draws or inside hand offs and occasionally floats out into the flat as a relief valve but 90% of the time he's in there for extra blocking. And you dink and dunk your way down the damn field. Minnesota did it on the last drive of the 1st Half of the Dallas game. They did it for huge chunks of the 2nd Half against Denver. They did it most of the 4th Quarter in Seattle. 

Kevin is young. He's got to learn to adjust faster in-game. You can go Shotgun for a drive or two and then go back under Center and see if you've got the Defense to back off. You could also try a 6th Lineman like Seattle. There are ways to shake things up. Philly Fucking Specials and McVay Jet Sweeps reeks of desperation one-off calls instead of a wholehearted commitment to changing up the scheme.

It's all just band aids to give you a chance to eek out a win, though. It's the wound you're trying to cover up that needs the healing. Reiff is too slow to block speed rushers. Elf can't handle speed or power. Most Guards can handle one or the other. Pat can't handle either which makes him a lethal liability. Kline is ok. Despite recent slippage there are at least 25 teams that would kill to have O'Neill.

Bradbury needs to be locked in a weight room the entire offseason so he can get stronger and improve his anchor. The kid has the smarts and work ethic to get it done. There's a higher percentage chance of him not just making small progress before next season but actually making a significant jump. He's got the skill and speed already. Just needs more size.

Fixing this entire team starts at LG. Minnesota likely can't afford Scherf or Thuney. I haven't poked around enough to see if there's a Brandon Brooks-type who will be available. For now the solution needs to come from the Draft via an early pick. Personally, I'd like to see a kid that has primarily played Tackle that Scouts project to the interior. Let him duke it out with Reiff. If he wins, Riley either kicks inside or is gone. Reiff has ten thousand percent better odds to convert to Guard than Remmers because he's flat out a better athlete.

Worst Case Scenario is that Reiff wins the LT job and needs TE help when Minnesota faces speedy Edge Rushers while the Draft Pick is a big improvement over Elf.

The problem is Zimmer. He will be pounding the table for a 3T, DE and CB. And rightfully so. But no matter who he gets in the 1st that Player can't fix BOTH the D-Line and the Secondary unless it's Aaron Donald or Deion Sanders. And he's yet to show that he can take that much Draft Capital and turn it into an Elite Defense capable of carrying an Offense to a Superbowl victory.

If BOTH the 1st and 2nd Round picks are Defense and Rick doesn't manage to magically acquire a significant upgrade at either LG or LT I will know once and for all that they just don't get it and need to go.

[Guest]

No running game (i.e. "no Cook") = no success with play-action 

[Guest]

I was listening to Mike Boone on SkorNorth radio the other day.

While far from a fan favorite, he does have a unique perspective on OL play and he didnt hold back on this years OL.

From how sloppily they line-up at the LOS, body language during the game, technique and lack of talent and leadership.

It was pretty eye opening to hear it just put out there like that.  The left side of this OL (and 3t) are 70% of whats wrong with this team.

Oh for the days of Hutch in his prime - sigh.

[Guest]

@TBro said:
For those of you that don't subscribe to the Athletic, Arif Hassan does some great breakdowns after Vikings games including his Vikings Mailbag section. 

Vikings normally run play action on 32.8% of their drop backs. Against Green Bay, that percentage shrunk to 13.9% which was clear to all of us and commented on multiple times by media and VikeFans members. 

Arif's summary is quite concerning and seems to keep repeating itself when we go against good teams during the Zimmer era. 

"The issue isn’t that they abandoned play-action. The issue is that they didn’t have a response to the scenario where Green Bay took away play-action — something they should have anticipated because Green Bay did the exact same thing the last time they played. Even if this had been the first matchup against the Packers, offenses simply need an answer to what happens when the primary strategy is taken away. The Vikings either didn’t have one or couldn’t execute one." Arif Hassan

So that begs the question, if Play Action is taken away by the opponent, do we have an alternative strategy we can execute to effectively move the ball and score points? I have yet to see one displayed this year, but I'm sure someone will remind me of one if there was one. 

This is 100% truth (what Arif wrote).  Everyone wants to pin this loss on Zimmer, but his defense came to play.  In a game where the defense handed the Vikings offense the ball in Green Bay territory, not once, not twice, but three times and all we get is 10 points...  frustrating. 

We didn't have a counter to what Green Bay did defensively and I would put the majority of the blame on Stefanski and Kubiak in this one.  It should have been plain to see from the booth what Green Bay was doing (lining up their LBs out wide to take away bootlegs and designed roll outs)...  that is the benefit of having Kubiak up there instead of on the sidelines.

The offensive line didn't do us much favors either with Reiff, Elflein, and even Bradbury failing to block Zadarius (and a couple times it was only 3 rushers to 5 pass blockers).  Just a complete melt down by the offense and offensive coaching staff...  then you throw in the Diggs overthrow that should have been a huge play if he just lobs it to Cousins, the Reiff hold on the Bisi TD catch, Thielen dropping a long throw on the sidelines, and the long throw to Diggs that was intercepted...  the couple times we had an opportunity for a big play and some momentum, we came up empty.

I don't think you can harp on Zimmer too much on this one...  that is the reason we have Kubiak here is to be a mentor for Stefanski and take care of that side of the ball.  It's no different than McVay hiring Wade Phillips to coach his defense so he can focus on the Rams offense.  A good HC gets coordinators he can trust to get his guys ready and unfortunately, Kubiak and Stefanski had a bad day.