Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
For HC or draft pick?
shouldnt we discuss GM before HC? of course that will then possibly give a new direction for a draft pick as well. B)
We need to be able to intelligently and reasonably determine what is wrong with the organization and what is right. Have any of you run an organization? A company? A staff of any kind? Just because you didn't meet certain metrics doesn't mean you throw out everything. You could be throwing out the one or two things that kept you competitive in the first place.
I have a few problems with Zimmer (pre-game planning for one) and he would definitely be among those I would put under a microscope. But any conversation about Rick Spielman is ridiculous in my opinion. He's not perfect, but more than anyone else, he is responsible for compiling, and keeping together, what is recognized league-wide as one of the most talented teams in the NFL.
If we miss the playoffs, the prevailing question at the end of the year should not be "how do we draft better and acquire more talent?" It should be "how does a roster with THIS much talent under-perform so often?"
I would tend to agree. The two biggest factors in outcomes on the field to me are qb and coach and both have some shortcomings. Primarily the coach has stated he doesn't like gameday and it shows a lot of the time, particularly on the road outdoors against winning teams (1-12-1 since 2014). I think the narrative would be different if we had an elite qb. We left so many plays on the field in the losses, with a qb like Brees or Rodgers we'd probably be 9-0. What we have instead is a guy with arm talent but glaring mental flaws and our strategy is to put great pieces around him and a good defense and hope it works out. 6-3 is not terrible but a) it could be much better as we've seen and b) the schedule is a lot tougher the rest of the way.
But the defense is faltering this year in some ways and that has also led to at least 2 of the 3 losses - Green Bay and KC. Obviously Kirk's faults have been on display and a part of all the losses as well but it's kind of pointless to huff and puff about him endlessly, he is what he is and they have to make the rest of the formula work to win. If Zimmer can't keep the D with all this high $ talent in the top 5 and follow the stated formula, which has been get 21 points and the D will do the rest (didn't happen in KC where 23 should have been enough) then probably Zimmer is gone this January after a one and done.
As for Spielman, I doubt Wilf is going to switch gears based on the talent level acquired as you pointed out. We can also note that he found and hired Zimmer, a big improvement over Chili and Les who were hand picked by Zygmunt during his idiot fantasy owner without a real g.m. phase. So we can hope he finds another good coach if that is the route they go.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
We need to be able to intelligently and reasonably determine what is wrong with the organization and what is right. Have any of you run an organization? A company? A staff of any kind? Just because you didn't meet certain metrics doesn't mean you throw out everything. You could be throwing out the one or two things that kept you competitive in the first place.
I have a few problems with Zimmer (pre-game planning for one) and he would definitely be among those I would put under a microscope. But any conversation about Rick Spielman is ridiculous in my opinion. He's not perfect, but more than anyone else, he is responsible for compiling, and keeping together, what is recognized league-wide as one of the most talented teams in the NFL.
If we miss the playoffs, the prevailing question at the end of the year should not be "how do we draft better and acquire more talent?" It should be "how does a roster with THIS much talent under-perform so often?"
Starting point is the coaches known expertise. IMO it's the secondary. The draft picks and talent are there but the results aren't and haven't been the last 18 games.
I don't have the answers and don't have valid excuses, but something isn't right.
Quote: @Mattyman said:
@ MaroonBells said:
We need to be able to intelligently and reasonably determine what is wrong with the organization and what is right. Have any of you run an organization? A company? A staff of any kind? Just because you didn't meet certain metrics doesn't mean you throw out everything. You could be throwing out the one or two things that kept you competitive in the first place.
I have a few problems with Zimmer (pre-game planning for one) and he would definitely be among those I would put under a microscope. But any conversation about Rick Spielman is ridiculous in my opinion. He's not perfect, but more than anyone else, he is responsible for compiling, and keeping together, what is recognized league-wide as one of the most talented teams in the NFL.
If we miss the playoffs, the prevailing question at the end of the year should not be "how do we draft better and acquire more talent?" It should be "how does a roster with THIS much talent under-perform so often?"
Starting point is the coaches known expertise. IMO it's the secondary. The draft picks and talent are there but the results aren't and haven't been the last 18 games.
I don't have the answers and don't have valid excuses, but something isn't right.
I see several factors that could be leading to the decline of the secondary. I think Rhodes is fading, whether it's age, injuries, scheme or a combination all I don't know. I've never been a big Waynes fan, he seems to usually be ok in coverage but his ball skills downright suck. Harry has lost a step, seems to be out of position more than he used to be. Alexander has struggled with injury issues. Hill, obviously hasn't been available. Harris and Kearse flash but aren't consistent. Add all this together and I believe you have a pretty pedestrian secondary on the whole.
Bottom line, I believe the expectations for the collective group are too high. They are not the elite group they were a couple of years ago.
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
Irv had a nice screen called back, he'll house one before the year is over...
I'd target this guy at least 8-t0 times a game. He's a mismatch on most linebackers and safeties.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
For HC or draft pick?
shouldnt we discuss GM before HC? of course that will then possibly give a new direction for a draft pick as well. B)
We need to be able to intelligently and reasonably determine what is wrong with the organization and what is right. Have any of you run an organization? A company? A staff of any kind? Just because you didn't meet certain metrics doesn't mean you throw out everything. You could be throwing out the one or two things that kept you competitive in the first place.
I have a few problems with Zimmer (pre-game planning for one) and he would definitely be among those I would put under a microscope. But any conversation about Rick Spielman is ridiculous in my opinion. He's not perfect, but more than anyone else, he is responsible for compiling, and keeping together, what is recognized league-wide as one of the most talented teams in the NFL.
If we miss the playoffs, the prevailing question at the end of the year should not be "how do we draft better and acquire more talent?" It should be "how does a roster with THIS much talent under-perform so often?"
I know how I would run a team, but that doesnt mean much. typically when a GM has had a decade of question marks, a HC that seems to be getting declining returns on his high draft picks, and a roster that is on the verge of tipping over due to cap issues and not seeing the return on those high contracts... there is a big swing by ownership to get it fixed. I am not saying I would scrap it all, but I wouldnt be surprised if the Wilfs were to make that move. remember that the RS and Zim are on the last year of their contracts, there is a reason for Wilfs not extending them prior to this year.
Actually they gave them both 1 more year...
Quote: @Ralphie said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Irv had a nice screen called back, he'll house one before the year is over...
I'd target this guy at least 8-t0 times a game. He's a mismatch on most linebackers and safeties.
Especially with Thielen out...
2019 Vikings are:4-0 against teams that are likely bottom 10 (Falcons, Redskins, Giants, Lions)2-1 against teams that are about .500 (Raiders, Eagles, Bears) - and the above correlates to home field advantage
0-2 against teams that are leading their divisions (Packers, Chiefs)
That suggests 3 more wins (Lions, Broncos, and Bears at USB) and 4 more losses (Cowboys, Seahawks, Chargers on road and Packers at home). 9-7 unless they buck the trend. But the Vikings also have a history of surprise home defeats (Bills and Bears last year, Colts in 2016), so it will be worse if one of those pops up. Denver might not be the "gimme" everyone has penciled in: Broncos coming off a bye, we will be looking ahead to Seattle, and Zimmer struggles with QBs like Brandon Allen more than he would with Flacco.
Quote: @Kentis said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
For HC or draft pick?
shouldnt we discuss GM before HC? of course that will then possibly give a new direction for a draft pick as well. B)
We need to be able to intelligently and reasonably determine what is wrong with the organization and what is right. Have any of you run an organization? A company? A staff of any kind? Just because you didn't meet certain metrics doesn't mean you throw out everything. You could be throwing out the one or two things that kept you competitive in the first place.
I have a few problems with Zimmer (pre-game planning for one) and he would definitely be among those I would put under a microscope. But any conversation about Rick Spielman is ridiculous in my opinion. He's not perfect, but more than anyone else, he is responsible for compiling, and keeping together, what is recognized league-wide as one of the most talented teams in the NFL.
If we miss the playoffs, the prevailing question at the end of the year should not be "how do we draft better and acquire more talent?" It should be "how does a roster with THIS much talent under-perform so often?"
I know how I would run a team, but that doesnt mean much. typically when a GM has had a decade of question marks, a HC that seems to be getting declining returns on his high draft picks, and a roster that is on the verge of tipping over due to cap issues and not seeing the return on those high contracts... there is a big swing by ownership to get it fixed. I am not saying I would scrap it all, but I wouldnt be surprised if the Wilfs were to make that move. remember that the RS and Zim are on the last year of their contracts, there is a reason for Wilfs not extending them prior to this year.
Actually they gave them both 1 more year...
thank you, i stand corrected... but hardly a ringing endorsement or any lock that the ownership is happy with their performance to date or not considering another option.
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