Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
again, cant really pre-decide what it will take can we? it really has to be an in the moment type of decision IMO based on what else was happening at the time. I am not really remembering the play you are talking about, is that the one the Kalil completely was made to look the fool by freeny? if thats the play I think the blame is a bit arguable.
I would say it can be pre determined. I know he's got the backup QB label, but that's like saying Big Ben should have been permanently benched after the Jags game because he was god awful. I know the equity/history of the QB's is different, but Case has been statistically just as good as big ben if not better this year.
Just seems like Zim's got an itchy trigger finger for bridgewater... when our team has won 6 games in a row, and our QB mostly playing lights out and the team is behind Case. makes zero sense to me. every QB has WTF moments, or bad passes throughout the course of the game, and that seems to be the biggest argument against him, that he's not PERFECT.
so is it a WTF moment or is a string of poor moments with a really WTF moment? like I said, it cant be predetermined. would I let him take the second half if he shit the bed in a first half and the game was within 1 score... maybe, 2 scores probably not, 3 scores probably as I wouldnt put Teddy into a shit situation. it really depends the overall picture surrounding the situation.
in the past 9 games, how many times has this happened? i guess it's plausible, but not likely? other than the skins game with two bad passes (in a game he passed for 300 yards and 4td's on the road for the first time since Daunte) he's been pretty damn solid for our team.
uhm... second half of the redskins game. if he had played like that in the first half it would have been Teddys game in the second half I am pretty sure. but he didnt play like that in the first half and that bought him some lee way. he followed it up with a pretty good outing this week so he gets more leash. if he continues to grow and minimize the WTF moments it will be tough to remove him, but it remains to be seen what it would ultimately take.
right- so this entire discussion is based on a game where he had 300 yards and 4 TD's on the road. yes i know the TD's were short, but he still executed them..
because he had two bad passes?
2? Sometimes I wonder if people actually watch the game.
exaclty. I will have these conversations with anybody, but when they try to twist shit, or prove that they are blinded by their desires to "win the internet" well then its not worth my time. have fun with this one, I think I may take another break from the QB discussion as there really is no discussing it.
agreed Jimmy. Willful dishonesty or twisting words or stats just to win their point.
I have said all I need to say on this, onto Detroit. I suspect the week will be too short to drum up much "controversy" this week.
I dont know... Weatherly looked pretty good in his limited opportunities.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ Mike Olson said:
How fair would it be to Bridgewater to ask him to come in after not playing a meaningful football game since Jan 2016 and not screw up the current trajectory? That's a lot of time that he hasn't led a team. And that's a lot of pressure to welcome him back under. If it doesn't work you have a whole locker room full of folks that are going to ask why you went away from a guy that basically saved your season at the QB position. I just don't think we will see Teddy again this year.
Bridgewater is a NFL QB, if he can't hack it, so be it and go back to Keenum. Again, if Zimmer feels Bridgewater is the best option, he should go with him. Play the best talent. To paraphrase Zimmer, good enough is the enemy of great.
Isn't a little insulting to the rest of the team to say that Keenum saved the season? I would guess the defense feels like they're a part of the success of the team.
Maybe you should read my post a little closer... I read it. Not really sure what that means. Has Hill saved the season at RT? Harris at S? Backups are suppose to come in and play well, otherwise they shouldn't be the backup.
LOL, that's hilarious. C'mon now, this is where a team's depth comes into play....and it varies greatly. Tell that to Dallas with backup RBs and OTs are sinking their season. Green Bay. Arizona. They are backups because their level of play is substantially lower than the starters otherwise they'd be starters on teams like Cleveland.
Rashod Hill, Case Keenum, Anthony Harris, Danny Isidora, etc. have stepped up. More so than other team's backups and they are the reason the team is 8-2. Of course that's where team depth comes in. That's why a team needs to make good signings and draft picks. I don't think any team drafts a player hoping their talent level means they're going to sit on the bench. Every year teams overcome injuries. How'd Dallas do last year with their backup QB? It happens every year. This seems to be a good year for the Vikings backups. Kudos.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
again, cant really pre-decide what it will take can we? it really has to be an in the moment type of decision IMO based on what else was happening at the time. I am not really remembering the play you are talking about, is that the one the Kalil completely was made to look the fool by freeny? if thats the play I think the blame is a bit arguable.
I would say it can be pre determined. I know he's got the backup QB label, but that's like saying Big Ben should have been permanently benched after the Jags game because he was god awful. I know the equity/history of the QB's is different, but Case has been statistically just as good as big ben if not better this year.
Just seems like Zim's got an itchy trigger finger for bridgewater... when our team has won 6 games in a row, and our QB mostly playing lights out and the team is behind Case. makes zero sense to me. every QB has WTF moments, or bad passes throughout the course of the game, and that seems to be the biggest argument against him, that he's not PERFECT.
so is it a WTF moment or is a string of poor moments with a really WTF moment? like I said, it cant be predetermined. would I let him take the second half if he shit the bed in a first half and the game was within 1 score... maybe, 2 scores probably not, 3 scores probably as I wouldnt put Teddy into a shit situation. it really depends the overall picture surrounding the situation.
in the past 9 games, how many times has this happened? i guess it's plausible, but not likely? other than the skins game with two bad passes (in a game he passed for 300 yards and 4td's on the road for the first time since Daunte) he's been pretty damn solid for our team.
uhm... second half of the redskins game. if he had played like that in the first half it would have been Teddys game in the second half I am pretty sure. but he didnt play like that in the first half and that bought him some lee way. he followed it up with a pretty good outing this week so he gets more leash. if he continues to grow and minimize the WTF moments it will be tough to remove him, but it remains to be seen what it would ultimately take.
right- so this entire discussion is based on a game where he had 300 yards and 4 TD's on the road. yes i know the TD's were short, but he still executed them..
because he had two bad passes?
2? Sometimes I wonder if people actually watch the game.
exaclty. I will have these conversations with anybody, but when they try to twist shit, or prove that they are blinded by their desires to "win the internet" well then its not worth my time. have fun with this one, I think I may take another break from the QB discussion as there really is no discussing it.
lol ok.... i disagree with you and i try to "win the internet" and then they ask me if i even watch the games. cause that's not twisting shit. it's hilarious the pompous attitude of the regulars here now a days. i even said multiple times it's ok to have different opinions on the subject.
holy frustrating.
and i asked for examples, tangible examples of multiple WTF moments, and you gave me 1Q of a game where the offense scored 38 points, and our QB had a rating over 100 and 300+ passing yards, and 4 TD's. and then because i bring up the two INT's which clearly is what you're talking about because they threw an entire 4 times after that, so it had to be THAT MOMENT. you ask if fucking watch the games, then call me smug.
feels great to be back!
@ FSUVike said: More likely scenario because, you know, it's the Minnesota Vikings? Case plays all the snaps the rest of the way, losing a close game in the NFCCG through no fault of his own, is inked as the Franchise QB and turms into a pumpkin while Bridgewater gets signed elsewhere and turns into a Franchise QB.
I think this is what we all fear. It happened in 98/99 when we gave Cunningham a big contract and traded away Johnson. Cunningham turned into a pumpkin, like many of us knew he would, and Johnson went on to win a Super Bowl. I remember hearing so many of the same things. "Well, you can at least understand it after the season Cunningham has had. How could you take out a QB who's playing that well?" And so maybe that's what scares me so much about this. That we're going to again get seduced by another Cinderella.
But, to his credit, so far anyway, Zimmer seems to get it.
Quote: @golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
again, cant really pre-decide what it will take can we? it really has to be an in the moment type of decision IMO based on what else was happening at the time. I am not really remembering the play you are talking about, is that the one the Kalil completely was made to look the fool by freeny? if thats the play I think the blame is a bit arguable.
I would say it can be pre determined. I know he's got the backup QB label, but that's like saying Big Ben should have been permanently benched after the Jags game because he was god awful. I know the equity/history of the QB's is different, but Case has been statistically just as good as big ben if not better this year.
Just seems like Zim's got an itchy trigger finger for bridgewater... when our team has won 6 games in a row, and our QB mostly playing lights out and the team is behind Case. makes zero sense to me. every QB has WTF moments, or bad passes throughout the course of the game, and that seems to be the biggest argument against him, that he's not PERFECT.
so is it a WTF moment or is a string of poor moments with a really WTF moment? like I said, it cant be predetermined. would I let him take the second half if he shit the bed in a first half and the game was within 1 score... maybe, 2 scores probably not, 3 scores probably as I wouldnt put Teddy into a shit situation. it really depends the overall picture surrounding the situation.
in the past 9 games, how many times has this happened? i guess it's plausible, but not likely? other than the skins game with two bad passes (in a game he passed for 300 yards and 4td's on the road for the first time since Daunte) he's been pretty damn solid for our team.
uhm... second half of the redskins game. if he had played like that in the first half it would have been Teddys game in the second half I am pretty sure. but he didnt play like that in the first half and that bought him some lee way. he followed it up with a pretty good outing this week so he gets more leash. if he continues to grow and minimize the WTF moments it will be tough to remove him, but it remains to be seen what it would ultimately take.
right- so this entire discussion is based on a game where he had 300 yards and 4 TD's on the road. yes i know the TD's were short, but he still executed them..
because he had two bad passes?
2? Sometimes I wonder if people actually watch the game.
exaclty. I will have these conversations with anybody, but when they try to twist shit, or prove that they are blinded by their desires to "win the internet" well then its not worth my time. have fun with this one, I think I may take another break from the QB discussion as there really is no discussing it.
lol ok.... i disagree with you and i try to "win the internet" and then they ask me if i even watch the games. cause that's not twisting shit. it's hilarious the pompous attitude of the regulars here now a days. i even said multiple times it's ok to have different opinions on the subject.
holy frustrating.
and i asked for examples, tangible examples of multiple WTF moments, and you gave me 1Q of a game where the offense scored 38 points, and our QB had a rating over 100 and 300+ passing yards, and 4 TD's. and then because i bring up the two INT's which clearly is what you're talking about because they threw an entire 4 times after that, so it had to be THAT MOMENT. you ask if fucking watch the games, then call me smug.
feels great to be back!
i am not going to rehash the last 9 weeks, just because you havent been here doesnt mean the conversation hasnt taken place. I gave you a quick example and you became a smart ass and made your comment that my position is based off of those 2 passes alone. or that somehow what Teddy did 2 years ago with a completely different offense and supporting cast is somehow relevant in a discussion about today. we were talking about situations that would dictate him getting pulled. I said it depends on the situation that he goes to shit, if that 3rd quarter had taken place in the first quarter... you can bet your ass he should have been pulled. but it didnt and he wasnt.
like I said, enjoy your day. i am not going to get into a pissing match over this. been there done that and its just not very rewarding.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
again, cant really pre-decide what it will take can we? it really has to be an in the moment type of decision IMO based on what else was happening at the time. I am not really remembering the play you are talking about, is that the one the Kalil completely was made to look the fool by freeny? if thats the play I think the blame is a bit arguable.
I would say it can be pre determined. I know he's got the backup QB label, but that's like saying Big Ben should have been permanently benched after the Jags game because he was god awful. I know the equity/history of the QB's is different, but Case has been statistically just as good as big ben if not better this year.
Just seems like Zim's got an itchy trigger finger for bridgewater... when our team has won 6 games in a row, and our QB mostly playing lights out and the team is behind Case. makes zero sense to me. every QB has WTF moments, or bad passes throughout the course of the game, and that seems to be the biggest argument against him, that he's not PERFECT.
so is it a WTF moment or is a string of poor moments with a really WTF moment? like I said, it cant be predetermined. would I let him take the second half if he shit the bed in a first half and the game was within 1 score... maybe, 2 scores probably not, 3 scores probably as I wouldnt put Teddy into a shit situation. it really depends the overall picture surrounding the situation.
in the past 9 games, how many times has this happened? i guess it's plausible, but not likely? other than the skins game with two bad passes (in a game he passed for 300 yards and 4td's on the road for the first time since Daunte) he's been pretty damn solid for our team.
uhm... second half of the redskins game. if he had played like that in the first half it would have been Teddys game in the second half I am pretty sure. but he didnt play like that in the first half and that bought him some lee way. he followed it up with a pretty good outing this week so he gets more leash. if he continues to grow and minimize the WTF moments it will be tough to remove him, but it remains to be seen what it would ultimately take.
right- so this entire discussion is based on a game where he had 300 yards and 4 TD's on the road. yes i know the TD's were short, but he still executed them..
because he had two bad passes?
2? Sometimes I wonder if people actually watch the game.
exaclty. I will have these conversations with anybody, but when they try to twist shit, or prove that they are blinded by their desires to "win the internet" well then its not worth my time. have fun with this one, I think I may take another break from the QB discussion as there really is no discussing it.
lol ok.... i disagree with you and i try to "win the internet" and then they ask me if i even watch the games. cause that's not twisting shit. it's hilarious the pompous attitude of the regulars here now a days. i even said multiple times it's ok to have different opinions on the subject.
holy frustrating.
and i asked for examples, tangible examples of multiple WTF moments, and you gave me 1Q of a game where the offense scored 38 points, and our QB had a rating over 100 and 300+ passing yards, and 4 TD's. and then because i bring up the two INT's which clearly is what you're talking about because they threw an entire 4 times after that, so it had to be THAT MOMENT. you ask if fucking watch the games, then call me smug.
feels great to be back!
i am not going to rehash the last 9 weeks, just because you havent been here doesnt mean the conversation hasnt taken place. I gave you a quick example and you became a smart ass and made your comment that my position is based off of those 2 passes alone. or that somehow what Teddy did 2 years ago with a completely different offense and supporting cast is somehow relevant in a discussion about today. we were talking about situations that would dictate him getting pulled. I said it depends on the situation that he goes to shit, if that 3rd quarter had taken place in the first quarter... you can bet your ass he should have been pulled. but it didnt and he wasnt.
like I said, enjoy your day. i am not going to get into a pissing match over this. been there done that and its just not very rewarding.
i was relating Teddy's ability to make some WTF moments in relation to Case now, and in relation to the quick trigger nature of pulling Case Vs pulling Teddy (theoretically)
and i was not meaning to be an ass, that is the moment you gave me so that's what i reacted too, and then got told i dont watch the games and somehow his stat line was twisting the narrative or whatever you called it.
no pissing match man, it's why i said it's ok to have different opinions. It's over and done with agreed
Quote: @SFVikingFan said:
@ FSUVike said:
So riddle me this: Teddy takes an AP-centric, archaic Norvel-schemed Offense with a bad Offensive Line and no WRs to 11-5.
But some of you think Zimmer is nuts for wanting to see what he can do with all this talent....
The offensive line wasn't great in 2015, but it was much better than last year's squad. AD didn't lead the league in rushing all by himself. And a rookie Diggs, Wright, Wallace, and Rudolph is not exactly "no WRs". Plus you aren't giving any credit to the defense, which was the 5th ranked scoring defense that year. The offense ranked 16th in points scored.
And I do think he's nuts if he wants to replace a QB who is playing very well and has the team on a 6 game win streak for a QB who hasn't played in a real game in 22 months and in his first two years in the league averaged 212 yards and just under 1 TD per game.
Rookie Diggs that played what, half the year does not equal 2017 Diggs. Thielen >Wallace by a factor of 3, minimum. Johnson was the other main target but Teddy had better rapport with Wright from their time as backups.
So Rudolph, Wright and Baby Diggs. Yep, that's not too good and not even remotely comparable to what the Team has now.
And while that Line could run block, at times (a lot of that was when AP was still AP), they sucked at pass pro, which is where this Line excels.
And Uncle Norv was calling runs up the gut every stinking 1st and 2nd Down and then dialing up 7 Steo Drops to go deep with a West Coast QB.
I'm not calling for Teddy to replace Keenum. But it isn't exactly Rocket Science to project what a healthy Teddy could do with a far superior roster and OC.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ FSUVike said:
So riddle me this: Teddy takes an AP-centric, archaic Norvel-schemed Offense with a bad Offensive Line and no WRs to 11-5.
But some of you think Zimmer is nuts for wanting to see what he can do with all this talent....
The offensive line wasn't great in 2015, but it was much better than last year's squad. AD didn't lead the league in rushing all by himself. And a rookie Diggs, Wright, Wallace, and Rudolph is not exactly "no WRs". Plus you aren't giving any credit to the defense, which was the 5th ranked scoring defense that year. The offense ranked 16th in points scored.
And I do think he's nuts if he wants to replace a QB who is playing very well and has the team on a 6 game win streak for a QB who hasn't played in a real game in 22 months and in his first two years in the league averaged 212 yards and just under 1 TD per game.
Rookie Diggs that played what, half the year does not equal 2017 Diggs. Thielen >Wallace by a factor of 3, minimum. Johnson was the other main target but Teddy had better rapport with Wright from their time as backups.
So Rudolph, Wright and Baby Diggs. Yep, that's not too good and not even remotely comparable to what the Team has now.
And while that Line could run block, at times (a lot of that was when AP was still AP), they sucked at pass pro, which is where this Line excels.
And Uncle Norv was calling runs up the gut every stinking 1st and 2nd Down and then dialing up 7 Steo Drops to go deep with a West Coast QB.
I'm not calling for Teddy to replace Keenum. But it isn't exactly Rocket Science to project what a healthy Teddy could do with a far superior roster and OC.
not that it means anything regarding 2017 Teddy, post knee explosion Teddy, but people question his turning the corner or showing improvement. Teddy was 6 TD to 1 INT down the stretch in 15. (I heard it on NFLN regarding him improving before his injury) Thats pretty damn good considering how bad our offense was with Norv calling the game for AD, and playing outside in December. His other stats didnt really make me say wow, but that jumped out at me.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ FSUVike said:
So riddle me this: Teddy takes an AP-centric, archaic Norvel-schemed Offense with a bad Offensive Line and no WRs to 11-5.
But some of you think Zimmer is nuts for wanting to see what he can do with all this talent....
The offensive line wasn't great in 2015, but it was much better than last year's squad. AD didn't lead the league in rushing all by himself. And a rookie Diggs, Wright, Wallace, and Rudolph is not exactly "no WRs". Plus you aren't giving any credit to the defense, which was the 5th ranked scoring defense that year. The offense ranked 16th in points scored.
And I do think he's nuts if he wants to replace a QB who is playing very well and has the team on a 6 game win streak for a QB who hasn't played in a real game in 22 months and in his first two years in the league averaged 212 yards and just under 1 TD per game.
Rookie Diggs that played what, half the year does not equal 2017 Diggs. Thielen >Wallace by a factor of 3, minimum. Johnson was the other main target but Teddy had better rapport with Wright from their time as backups.
So Rudolph, Wright and Baby Diggs. Yep, that's not too good and not even remotely comparable to what the Team has now.
And while that Line could run block, at times (a lot of that was when AP was still AP), they sucked at pass pro, which is where this Line excels.
And Uncle Norv was calling runs up the gut every stinking 1st and 2nd Down and then dialing up 7 Steo Drops to go deep with a West Coast QB.
I'm not calling for Teddy to replace Keenum. But it isn't exactly Rocket Science to project what a healthy Teddy could do with a far superior roster and OC.
not that it means anything regarding 2017 Teddy, post knee explosion Teddy, but people question his turning the corner or showing improvement. Teddy was 6 TD to 1 INT down the stretch in 15. (I heard it on NFLN regarding him improving before his injury) Thats pretty damn good considering how bad our offense was with Norv calling the game for AD, and playing outside in December. His other stats didnt really make me say wow, but that jumped out at me.
I would say your cherry picking.
season stats...
14 TDs for the season
9 int's
5 fumbles
Quote: @silverjoel said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ Mike Olson said:
How fair would it be to Bridgewater to ask him to come in after not playing a meaningful football game since Jan 2016 and not screw up the current trajectory? That's a lot of time that he hasn't led a team. And that's a lot of pressure to welcome him back under. If it doesn't work you have a whole locker room full of folks that are going to ask why you went away from a guy that basically saved your season at the QB position. I just don't think we will see Teddy again this year.
Bridgewater is a NFL QB, if he can't hack it, so be it and go back to Keenum. Again, if Zimmer feels Bridgewater is the best option, he should go with him. Play the best talent. To paraphrase Zimmer, good enough is the enemy of great.
Isn't a little insulting to the rest of the team to say that Keenum saved the season? I would guess the defense feels like they're a part of the success of the team.
Maybe you should read my post a little closer... I read it. Not really sure what that means. Has Hill saved the season at RT? Harris at S? Backups are suppose to come in and play well, otherwise they shouldn't be the backup.
Well he sure as shit ain't Spurgeon Wynn now is he? I'd say 6 wins in a row with 5 games over 100 rating is pretty fuckin good no? No he isn't, he's played pretty well. 3.5 games over 100 rating (feel free to call it 4, but not 5). He also has 4 games under 80 rating. I'm not really trying to knock him here, he's just been up and down game to game (sometimes half to half). Just not sure what this savior thing is. Bradford was the savior and should have been locked up on a multiyear deal and now Keenum is the savior and should be locked up on a multiyear deal.
I'm still going to trust the coaches on all of this.
Must be different stats? I am quoting KFAN's reporting.
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