The NFC North is “calling our bluff” of sorts

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

[Guest]

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

No one is saying he's not going to be affected by the injury. Of course he is. I don't care if you're talking about an NFL QB or a pro chess boxer, your performance is going to be affected by an achilles injury until it's fully healed and you've regained full confidence in it. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR, etc. And that statement should be obvious and not in the least controversial, but here we are.

 You think it takes a qb less time to recover from an achilles because he doesn't somehow hit the turf as hard or as often with his foot?   

It's not about the recovery time. It's more about the amount of stress put on the injury. A hundred years ago I played shortstop and sprained my ankle. They put me at 1st. I sure as hell couldn't have played shortstop. It's the same sort of thing. But if you want to believe an immobile pocket passer puts as much stress on his ankle as a RB, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. 

Ok I get it, you're not a doctor but you slept at the Holiday Inn Express last night, so, medical opinions!

Witty

[Guest]

No hotel stays required (I am a Marriott guy anyway

I tend to agree with this:  meta-analysis, which included 85 studies 

Over fan wishful thinking

[Guest]

@minny65 said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

No one is saying he's not going to be affected by the injury. Of course he is. I don't care if you're talking about an NFL QB or a pro chess boxer, your performance is going to be affected by an achilles injury until it's fully healed and you've regained full confidence in it. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR, etc. And that statement should be obvious and not in the least controversial, but here we are.

Is this your medical opinion as a doctor?   You think it takes a qb less time to recover from an achilles because he doesn't somehow hit the turf as hard or as often with his foot?   Does an athlete recovering even go full speed during recovery?  

You talk about plant foot. Do you have any idea how much more stress is placed onto the plant foot of a RB, CB and WR? Think about that for a bit. 

How did you calculate the different levels of stress, was this a medical study you did?

I mean it's fine, we all have opinions but you are making like you have medical insight into this situation which frankly, I don't believe.

An interesting medical overview of the subject is available at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9463425/

Of particular interest is the subsection titled "Return to Play."  Some excerpts:

This is consistent with the RTP rate (80%) demonstrated in Zellers et al.’s systematic review and meta-analysis, which included 85 studies [57]. In comparison to other common lower extremity orthopedic procedures, including knee microfracture surgery, ACL reconstruction, patellar tendon repair, ankle, or tibial shaft fracture fixation, AT repair is associated with significantly lower RTP rates and significantly longer mean time to RTP .

Despite these challenges, a majority of athletes are able to RTP; however, decreased performance levels affect many athletes’ abilities to play at their baseline levels [38••, 63]. For NFL players, in their first year returning from ATR, studies demonstrate that athletes play in significantly fewer games, with reduced play time, and worse performance compared to age-matched controls and their preinjury baseline [11, 40, 64]. At 2 to 3 years after surgery, athletes recover to their baseline performance levels and numbers of games played; however, the duration of their NFL career is significantly shorter than controls (3.6 ± 2.1 years, p<0.05) [60, 64]."

While there are many factors that may contribute to the higher RTP rate and the overall improved performance observed among collegiate athletes in contrast to professional athletes, it is likely that the player’s age at time of injury is one notable difference [38••]. For example, among professional soccer players with ATR, age was identified as an important risk factor for worse outcomes [63]. Age greater than 30 years is associated with an increased risk of not returning to the same level of play (OR=4.46, p=0.030), increased risk of re-rupture within the first two seasons after RTP (OR=6.36, p= 0.05), as well as increased risk of postoperative complications, such as surgical site infection, nerve injury, and wound healing complications. Carmont et al.’s study, which focused on identifying factors that influence functional outcomes at 1 year from postoperative intervention (percutaneous and minimally invasive repair), indicates age to be the strongest predictor of outcome after ATR through multiple regression analyses of symmetrical heel-rise to height index (HRHI) [66•]. In this study, HRHI was selected as the primary variable of interest due to its association with reduced tendon elongation, which contributes to decreased plantar flexion and overall worse ATR outcomes in the long term [66•]. When considering age and its relationship to HRHI, these findings suggest that younger patients with ATRs experience reduced tendon elongation, thus increasing their likelihood of regaining ankle plantar flexion and achieving more successful AT recovery based on long-term outcomes.

Once again, Kirk's injury (sadly) is clear handwriting on the wall for me to move in a different direction.

If we resign him and he reinjures or plays at 80% who do we blame?  Last year was bad luck the season before was Defense etc.

Let me just say this upfront, like I have been, the blame will go to Kwesi if we resign him for anything more than a huge bargain like 2 yr.  60 million which is not going to happen.

Time for a new Viking chapter  - IMO.  

Yeah I think if he hadn't torn the tendon they might be negotiating the extension right now, not that I'd go that direction because it's just more of the same mediocrity imho in a league and division where other teams are starting to badly outclass us.   

But the uncertainty with the injury recovery to me means there's no way they do a deal with him prior to free agency.  And that means the 28 mil dead cap hits the 2024 books and he hits the market and there are a lot of variables in play at that point.  I think they go to the draft to get a qb and come up with some kind of plan for next year, and reality is they are probably a 6 win team with a rookie qb, unless they want to get a cheap vet and sit the rookie.   It would help if ownership would give up it's super competitive fantasy and just acknowledge that a reset year could make this team a lot stronger going forward, assuming Kwesi is up to the job... another unknown lol.

[Guest]

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

It's your opinion that the stresses are medically different, but you're not a medical specialist. Like I said, we all have opinions.  Trying to gain a real understanding of the situation is not "being a dick", it's asking legitimate questions because you may think you're a source of infallible knowledge, but I don't.

This study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6415485 contains a lengthy discussion of RTP (return to play) factors and I would note this part of the conclusion:

"We found that 61.3% of NFL players were able to successfully RTP at a mean 11.90 months following a primary AT tear. Unlike other major injuries, draft round and position type were not significantly associated with likelihood of returning after an AT tear."

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

Card carrying member of the Curmudgeon Crew. Everything Vikings sucks.

[Guest]

@comet52 said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

Card carrying member of the Curmudgeon Crew. Everything Vikings sucks.

The comment isn't even barely relevant to the discussion, which is about the likelihood of Kirk returning quickly or easily from his injury.   Nothing in the conversation even remotely hints at "everything Vikings sucks". 

Maybe you could find a productive way to contribute by doing things like reading the actual posts and offering your own relevant insights instead of constantly attacking other posters.   

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@comet52 said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

Card carrying member of the Curmudgeon Crew. Everything Vikings sucks.

The comment isn't even barely relevant to the discussion, which is about the likelihood of Kirk returning quickly or easily from his injury.   Nothing in the conversation even remotely hints at "everything Vikings sucks". 

Maybe you could find a productive way to contribute by doing things like reading the actual posts and offering your own relevant insights instead of constantly attacking other posters.   

Dude, you're having a ridiculous argument about Kirk Cousins's injury because you don't want the guy to be resigned. And there's zero doubt you're being a dick about it. Calling it like it is. Like somehow you'll know better than the team that signs Cousins for the upcoming season. There's no 'relevant insight' on this to pull of the Internet, he'll recover or he won't. Aaron Rodgers is what, 3 years older and he'll be coming back as well. Gotta love all the Internet doctors, right up there with Waterboy.