I aint not draftnik, but I think I am liking Nix more than Penix right now.
Both certainly have their question marks.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I imagine the 1-yr contract point is an inference from the breakdown in their prior conversation last off-season where the Vikings wouldn't offer or guarantee any money past the 2024 season. The Vikings had offered to tack 2 years on Kirk's existing deal with 2023 (last season) and 2024 being guaranteed. Then the Vikings would have flexibility in 2025. Since it was only a single new year in guaranteed money Kirk didn't really engage in that.
The Kirk extension talks are very interesting since there are two colliding forces. Kirk will need more than a single year on a new deal and guarantees (likely full) into 2025. The Vikings on the other hand have very intentionally earmarked 2025 as the start of their new competitive window. They have complete flexibility. Hockenson, Addison, and Cine are the only 3 players on the entire roster with guaranteed money in 2025 which is kind of crazy.
Kirk played well, but is that enough to get the Viking to move off what they've setup in 2025?
What does "the start of their new competitive window" mean?
Whether a rookie QB or Kirk, 2025 is financial freedom to basically mold the roster as you wish with no compromise. One path could be to re-sign all of Kirk, Hunter, Darrisaw and JJ. Another could be to add a rookie QB and add a number of high-end free agents.
Taking this a different direction, the Vikings have set themselves up to successfully trade away considerable draft capital for a rookie QB if they choose to. They can make it up by supplementing the roster with very high-end free agents. Give me Penix with a good/very good OL and these weapons + a defense that blitzes half the amount of the time and can still generate pressure.
Campbell+Wilkins+Phillips (Roy, Day, Jones) with Hunter+Davenport+Carter can be a strong front 5
Man what is it about Penix that has this anti-Kirk crowd so fired up. I think he’s got bust written all over him. Of the much lower second tier of QBs, i think he’s the worst of the lot.
I mean if they go into the year with Penix at QB, they’ll be in a position for a top 2 pick to draft another QB the next year with another wasted top pick under their belts
I wonder what you thought about the Texans believing that Stroud could start as a rookie?
Quote: @FLVike said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I imagine the 1-yr contract point is an inference from the breakdown in their prior conversation last off-season where the Vikings wouldn't offer or guarantee any money past the 2024 season. The Vikings had offered to tack 2 years on Kirk's existing deal with 2023 (last season) and 2024 being guaranteed. Then the Vikings would have flexibility in 2025. Since it was only a single new year in guaranteed money Kirk didn't really engage in that.
The Kirk extension talks are very interesting since there are two colliding forces. Kirk will need more than a single year on a new deal and guarantees (likely full) into 2025. The Vikings on the other hand have very intentionally earmarked 2025 as the start of their new competitive window. They have complete flexibility. Hockenson, Addison, and Cine are the only 3 players on the entire roster with guaranteed money in 2025 which is kind of crazy.
Kirk played well, but is that enough to get the Viking to move off what they've setup in 2025?
What does "the start of their new competitive window" mean?
Whether a rookie QB or Kirk, 2025 is financial freedom to basically mold the roster as you wish with no compromise. One path could be to re-sign all of Kirk, Hunter, Darrisaw and JJ. Another could be to add a rookie QB and add a number of high-end free agents.
Taking this a different direction, the Vikings have set themselves up to successfully trade away considerable draft capital for a rookie QB if they choose to. They can make it up by supplementing the roster with very high-end free agents. Give me Penix with a good/very good OL and these weapons + a defense that blitzes half the amount of the time and can still generate pressure.
Campbell+Wilkins+Phillips (Roy, Day, Jones) with Hunter+Davenport+Carter can be a strong front 5
Man what is it about Penix that has this anti-Kirk crowd so fired up. I think he’s got bust written all over him. Of the much lower second tier of QBs, i think he’s the worst of the lot.
I mean if they go into the year with Penix at QB, they’ll be in a position for a top 2 pick to draft another QB the next year with another wasted top pick under their belts
I wonder what you thought about the Texans believing that Stroud could start as a rookie?
CJ Stroud was one of the highest rated QB prospects coming out last year. Penix is AT BEST 6th best in his class. Dude realistically shouldn’t even be a first round pick.
CJ Stroud is also in the extreme minority of first year QBs who have that kind of success. If you are counting on that happening with the QB we draft, there is OVERWHELMINGLY small chance of that happening.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ FLVike said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I imagine the 1-yr contract point is an inference from the breakdown in their prior conversation last off-season where the Vikings wouldn't offer or guarantee any money past the 2024 season. The Vikings had offered to tack 2 years on Kirk's existing deal with 2023 (last season) and 2024 being guaranteed. Then the Vikings would have flexibility in 2025. Since it was only a single new year in guaranteed money Kirk didn't really engage in that.
The Kirk extension talks are very interesting since there are two colliding forces. Kirk will need more than a single year on a new deal and guarantees (likely full) into 2025. The Vikings on the other hand have very intentionally earmarked 2025 as the start of their new competitive window. They have complete flexibility. Hockenson, Addison, and Cine are the only 3 players on the entire roster with guaranteed money in 2025 which is kind of crazy.
Kirk played well, but is that enough to get the Viking to move off what they've setup in 2025?
What does "the start of their new competitive window" mean?
Whether a rookie QB or Kirk, 2025 is financial freedom to basically mold the roster as you wish with no compromise. One path could be to re-sign all of Kirk, Hunter, Darrisaw and JJ. Another could be to add a rookie QB and add a number of high-end free agents.
Taking this a different direction, the Vikings have set themselves up to successfully trade away considerable draft capital for a rookie QB if they choose to. They can make it up by supplementing the roster with very high-end free agents. Give me Penix with a good/very good OL and these weapons + a defense that blitzes half the amount of the time and can still generate pressure.
Campbell+Wilkins+Phillips (Roy, Day, Jones) with Hunter+Davenport+Carter can be a strong front 5
Man what is it about Penix that has this anti-Kirk crowd so fired up. I think he’s got bust written all over him. Of the much lower second tier of QBs, i think he’s the worst of the lot.
I mean if they go into the year with Penix at QB, they’ll be in a position for a top 2 pick to draft another QB the next year with another wasted top pick under their belts
I wonder what you thought about the Texans believing that Stroud could start as a rookie?
CJ Stroud was one of the highest rated QB prospects coming out last year. Penix is AT BEST 6th best in his class. Dude realistically shouldn’t even be a first round pick.
CJ Stroud is also in the extreme minority of first year QBs who have that kind of success. If you are counting on that happening with the QB we draft, there is OVERWHELMINGLY small chance of that happening.
It's funny you say that because Stroud was my favorite but many were on Young. I wanted to trade up but I did not expect him to go 2nd so we probably could not have got to him.
Purdy was not highly rated and so there are rookies that can play. We absolutely have to pick a QB in this draft and in my opinion it would be best to take one at 11. Now whether it is Penix, McCarthy, Daniels, or Nix, I don't really care. But I expect us to take one of them.
Quote: @FLVike said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ FLVike said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I imagine the 1-yr contract point is an inference from the breakdown in their prior conversation last off-season where the Vikings wouldn't offer or guarantee any money past the 2024 season. The Vikings had offered to tack 2 years on Kirk's existing deal with 2023 (last season) and 2024 being guaranteed. Then the Vikings would have flexibility in 2025. Since it was only a single new year in guaranteed money Kirk didn't really engage in that.
The Kirk extension talks are very interesting since there are two colliding forces. Kirk will need more than a single year on a new deal and guarantees (likely full) into 2025. The Vikings on the other hand have very intentionally earmarked 2025 as the start of their new competitive window. They have complete flexibility. Hockenson, Addison, and Cine are the only 3 players on the entire roster with guaranteed money in 2025 which is kind of crazy.
Kirk played well, but is that enough to get the Viking to move off what they've setup in 2025?
What does "the start of their new competitive window" mean?
Whether a rookie QB or Kirk, 2025 is financial freedom to basically mold the roster as you wish with no compromise. One path could be to re-sign all of Kirk, Hunter, Darrisaw and JJ. Another could be to add a rookie QB and add a number of high-end free agents.
Taking this a different direction, the Vikings have set themselves up to successfully trade away considerable draft capital for a rookie QB if they choose to. They can make it up by supplementing the roster with very high-end free agents. Give me Penix with a good/very good OL and these weapons + a defense that blitzes half the amount of the time and can still generate pressure.
Campbell+Wilkins+Phillips (Roy, Day, Jones) with Hunter+Davenport+Carter can be a strong front 5
Man what is it about Penix that has this anti-Kirk crowd so fired up. I think he’s got bust written all over him. Of the much lower second tier of QBs, i think he’s the worst of the lot.
I mean if they go into the year with Penix at QB, they’ll be in a position for a top 2 pick to draft another QB the next year with another wasted top pick under their belts
I wonder what you thought about the Texans believing that Stroud could start as a rookie?
CJ Stroud was one of the highest rated QB prospects coming out last year. Penix is AT BEST 6th best in his class. Dude realistically shouldn’t even be a first round pick.
CJ Stroud is also in the extreme minority of first year QBs who have that kind of success. If you are counting on that happening with the QB we draft, there is OVERWHELMINGLY small chance of that happening.
It's funny you say that because Stroud was my favorite but many were on Young. I wanted to trade up but I did not expect him to go 2nd so we probably could not have got to him.
Purdy was not highly rated and so there are rookies that can play. We absolutely have to pick a QB in this draft and in my opinion it would be best to take one at 11. Now whether it is Penix, McCarthy, Daniels, or Nix, I don't really care. But I expect us to take one of them.
I mean great job going out on a limb on Stroud
Quote: @FLVike said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ FLVike said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I imagine the 1-yr contract point is an inference from the breakdown in their prior conversation last off-season where the Vikings wouldn't offer or guarantee any money past the 2024 season. The Vikings had offered to tack 2 years on Kirk's existing deal with 2023 (last season) and 2024 being guaranteed. Then the Vikings would have flexibility in 2025. Since it was only a single new year in guaranteed money Kirk didn't really engage in that.
The Kirk extension talks are very interesting since there are two colliding forces. Kirk will need more than a single year on a new deal and guarantees (likely full) into 2025. The Vikings on the other hand have very intentionally earmarked 2025 as the start of their new competitive window. They have complete flexibility. Hockenson, Addison, and Cine are the only 3 players on the entire roster with guaranteed money in 2025 which is kind of crazy.
Kirk played well, but is that enough to get the Viking to move off what they've setup in 2025?
What does "the start of their new competitive window" mean?
Whether a rookie QB or Kirk, 2025 is financial freedom to basically mold the roster as you wish with no compromise. One path could be to re-sign all of Kirk, Hunter, Darrisaw and JJ. Another could be to add a rookie QB and add a number of high-end free agents.
Taking this a different direction, the Vikings have set themselves up to successfully trade away considerable draft capital for a rookie QB if they choose to. They can make it up by supplementing the roster with very high-end free agents. Give me Penix with a good/very good OL and these weapons + a defense that blitzes half the amount of the time and can still generate pressure.
Campbell+Wilkins+Phillips (Roy, Day, Jones) with Hunter+Davenport+Carter can be a strong front 5
Man what is it about Penix that has this anti-Kirk crowd so fired up. I think he’s got bust written all over him. Of the much lower second tier of QBs, i think he’s the worst of the lot.
I mean if they go into the year with Penix at QB, they’ll be in a position for a top 2 pick to draft another QB the next year with another wasted top pick under their belts
I wonder what you thought about the Texans believing that Stroud could start as a rookie?
CJ Stroud was one of the highest rated QB prospects coming out last year. Penix is AT BEST 6th best in his class. Dude realistically shouldn’t even be a first round pick.
CJ Stroud is also in the extreme minority of first year QBs who have that kind of success. If you are counting on that happening with the QB we draft, there is OVERWHELMINGLY small chance of that happening.
It's funny you say that because Stroud was my favorite but many were on Young. I wanted to trade up but I did not expect him to go 2nd so we probably could not have got to him.
Purdy was not highly rated and so there are rookies that can play. We absolutely have to pick a QB in this draft and in my opinion it would be best to take one at 11. Now whether it is Penix, McCarthy, Daniels, or Nix, I don't really care. But I expect us to take one of them.
You also bring up anomalies like Stroud and Purdy like it's THAT easy to hit on a QB. You speak as though literally ANY QB other than Kirk is MILES better than what we've got. You probably thought Josh Dobbs walked on water when he came in. Well, you were wrong about that and you'll be wrong about this too.....and I'll be here for it
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ FLVike said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ FLVike said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I imagine the 1-yr contract point is an inference from the breakdown in their prior conversation last off-season where the Vikings wouldn't offer or guarantee any money past the 2024 season. The Vikings had offered to tack 2 years on Kirk's existing deal with 2023 (last season) and 2024 being guaranteed. Then the Vikings would have flexibility in 2025. Since it was only a single new year in guaranteed money Kirk didn't really engage in that.
The Kirk extension talks are very interesting since there are two colliding forces. Kirk will need more than a single year on a new deal and guarantees (likely full) into 2025. The Vikings on the other hand have very intentionally earmarked 2025 as the start of their new competitive window. They have complete flexibility. Hockenson, Addison, and Cine are the only 3 players on the entire roster with guaranteed money in 2025 which is kind of crazy.
Kirk played well, but is that enough to get the Viking to move off what they've setup in 2025?
What does "the start of their new competitive window" mean?
Whether a rookie QB or Kirk, 2025 is financial freedom to basically mold the roster as you wish with no compromise. One path could be to re-sign all of Kirk, Hunter, Darrisaw and JJ. Another could be to add a rookie QB and add a number of high-end free agents.
Taking this a different direction, the Vikings have set themselves up to successfully trade away considerable draft capital for a rookie QB if they choose to. They can make it up by supplementing the roster with very high-end free agents. Give me Penix with a good/very good OL and these weapons + a defense that blitzes half the amount of the time and can still generate pressure.
Campbell+Wilkins+Phillips (Roy, Day, Jones) with Hunter+Davenport+Carter can be a strong front 5
Man what is it about Penix that has this anti-Kirk crowd so fired up. I think he’s got bust written all over him. Of the much lower second tier of QBs, i think he’s the worst of the lot.
I mean if they go into the year with Penix at QB, they’ll be in a position for a top 2 pick to draft another QB the next year with another wasted top pick under their belts
I wonder what you thought about the Texans believing that Stroud could start as a rookie?
CJ Stroud was one of the highest rated QB prospects coming out last year. Penix is AT BEST 6th best in his class. Dude realistically shouldn’t even be a first round pick.
CJ Stroud is also in the extreme minority of first year QBs who have that kind of success. If you are counting on that happening with the QB we draft, there is OVERWHELMINGLY small chance of that happening.
It's funny you say that because Stroud was my favorite but many were on Young. I wanted to trade up but I did not expect him to go 2nd so we probably could not have got to him.
Purdy was not highly rated and so there are rookies that can play. We absolutely have to pick a QB in this draft and in my opinion it would be best to take one at 11. Now whether it is Penix, McCarthy, Daniels, or Nix, I don't really care. But I expect us to take one of them.
You also bring up anomalies like Stroud and Purdy like it's THAT easy to hit on a QB. You speak as though literally ANY QB other than Kirk is MILES better than what we've got. You probably thought Josh Dobbs walked on water when he came in. Well, you were wrong about that and you'll be wrong about this too.....and I'll be here for it
Well, let me see. Dobbs, please don't even.
THAT easy? Well not saying I'm great at my picks but I will tell you this; In 2020 I wanted to pick Justin Herbert, we had the picks to move up. And if I were the Panthers GM they would have Stroud rather than Young.
Now if we pick any of those QBs I listed, when he plays,
I don't guarantee I'll be here, you never know what the future holds, but if I am I will be the first to admit I was wrong and you were right.
Let's be realistic for a minute with all of this reckless speculation assuming Cousin's demands of $90 Million guaranteed for 2 years is accurate and we move on. We have 2 major issues at play here: 1st) There is zero evidence so far that KOC can identify and develop a Franchise QB. He proved this season that he was inflexible and/or incapable of creating and adapting a QB friendly system for Hall, Dobbs, or Mullens that matched their skill set and experience. He called plays and game planned like Cousins was still under center. 2nd) The chances of the top 3 teams not taking a QB is slim to none. Even if we are in a better position to strike a deal and orchestrate a trade up, in won't matter. Mayo needs his franchise QB to start his coaching tenure off on the right foot. Would you trust Mac Jones, who you didn't draft, to lead the team? Most of his teammates can't stand him. The Bears are in a perfect position to move on from Fields, and Washington won't pass up the opportunity to take Drake Maye
So, this belief that we either trade up for one of the top 3 QB's or sign Cousins to his large contract demands are both Fantasy. Drafting one of the second Tier QB's and signing a Bridge Free Agent seems way more realistic as a probable outcome. That is also the scary part. Expecting KOC and KAM to get the decision right when their decision making so far is pretty suspect.
For those using the $90M figure for Cousins, this would rank him 9th among NFL QBs.
Quote: @TBro said:
Let's be realistic for a minute with all of this reckless speculation assuming Cousin's demands of $90 Million guaranteed for 2 years is accurate and we move on. We have 2 major issues at play here: 1st) There is zero evidence so far that KOC can identify and develop a Franchise QB. He proved this season that he was inflexible and/or incapable of creating and adapting a QB friendly system for Hall, Dobbs, or Mullens that matched their skill set and experience. He called plays and game planned like Cousins was still under center. 2nd) The chances of the top 3 teams not taking a QB is slim to none. Even if we are in a better position to strike a deal and orchestrate a trade up, in won't matter. Mayo needs his franchise QB to start his coaching tenure off on the right foot. Would you trust Mac Jones, who you didn't draft, to lead the team? Most of his teammates can't stand him. The Bears are in a perfect position to move on from Fields, and Washington won't pass up the opportunity to take Drake Maye
So, this belief that we either trade up for one of the top 3 QB's or sign Cousins to his large contract demands are both Fantasy. Drafting one of the second Tier QB's and signing a Bridge Free Agent seems way more realistic as a probable outcome. That is also the scary part. Expecting KOC and KAM to get the decision right when their decision making so far is pretty suspect.
Fair. The Vikings have absolutely backed themselves into a corner at the most important position. Not saying he’s a world-beater but I still wonder why we didn’t just draft Levis last year. Assuming he performed similarly to what he did in Tennessee, I think 99% of the fanbase would be fine to see what he looks like next season and excited to build out a team around him with picks and free agents. Instead we’re stuck in this quagmire yet again where our best option is probably going back to the negotiating table with Kirk, with little leverage. Can we give Kirk the most $? I doubt it. Can we give him the best chance to win a ring? Hardly a guarantee. Depends who has interest. So all we for sure have is the, “change is scary” argument and gotta hope that prevails. What a mess!
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