Quote: @greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"
I don't excuse the behavior of Antifa, but it's important to remember that on one side you have people who hate and on the other, people who are opposed to that hate. Both are wrong in their methods, but if I were going to choose a side, it's not hard for me to decide which one. As a big fan of Jesus, Ghandi and MLK, I think the anti-racists and anti-fascists would be more effective if they chose a non-violent approach, but then people often ask why the Jews didn't fight back as they were herded to their deaths. What would it look like if they had?
Wait... so it's OK for Antifa to hate... because they're doing it in the name of stopping hate? That makes about as much sense has destroying property and physically (and verbally) attacking other people in the name of peace. Or staging massive, month-long protests... and then leaving behind so much waste / trash that it takes millions of dollars to clean it up... in the name of taking care of the earth.
As for the rest of your analogy, it falls apart because you are presupposing things not in evidence. You BELIEVE that Trump is going to be bad for America; therefore any form of resistance is- in some way- justified. Well, I BELIEVED (and I think I've been proven correct- at least about a couple of things) that Obama was going to be bad for America. Does that mean that I had the right to gather of mob of like-minded individuals and attack those who disagreed with me? Would I have had the right to persecute / terrify my state senators because they are Democrats? For that matter, are you saying that it's now OK to blow-up abortion clinics... because the "ends justifies the means". That DOES seem to be your argument; yet I don't think that you would support that philosophy for all people; just those that you agree with.
OK, Jackson Pollock, you're mixing a LOTTA different paint colors with your brushes. There's a difference between hate and violence. What's more, I don't think Antifa is much about peace. Or the environment. That one made me laugh out loud. The rest of your post is ridiculous. Almost schizophrenic.
Yes there is. One is a feeling, the other an action. One has traditionally been a crime, the other only recently. Hate often leads to violence as we see in many recent protests. But what is troubling is that you seem to be saying hate is worse.
I hate the Packers. That is fine and not criminal. But if I defaced or vandalized a packer fan's property, that would be a crime. But somehow, now certain feelings make a crime "worse" in the eyes of many. Murder is sourced in hate, but now if the hate is of a certain type, it changes the law. That is bogus. But at least tell me you aren't saying that violence done in the supposed anti-hate is not as bad as hate itself?
Oh come on, I'm obviously talking about "hate" in the legal and sociological sense, not the emotional sense. And, yes, when that kind of hate is behind a crime, it means GROUPS are being targeted, not individuals, so it's far more dangerous to our society than someone who offs his wife because he suddenly hates her. That's why it does, and should, carry extra penalty.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ KingBash said:
It's just so telling you'd rather burn your calories on this topic than just agree that white supremacists are douchebags.
How are white supremacists worse than somebody thinking Christians are assholes? Or somebody hating Trump voters? I dunno, one group believes Jews, blacks, hispanics, etc. are subhuman and should be exterminated whereas perhaps John or Jane are disgusted with religious hypocrisy and Trump's mental illness... Yeah, one in the same!
I will say that- without unequivocatation. They are d-bags. But, if you were being honest, you would know (and I presume that you do) that not all White Supremacists want to exterminate other people. There are some... but there are some who want anyone that they "hate" to be exterminated (I assume you read about the teacher from Rosemount, MN who tweeted that she was hoping that someone would "take one for the team" and assassinate Kavanaugh). How many times have liberals referred to conservatives as "subhuman"? You seem to think that there is only one group out there that is capable of "hatred"... or else you think that some hate is worse than others. I would say that the hate that leads to actual (not imagined) violence is the "worse" kind of hate. So... which group is out there attacking (or intimidating) others right now? It ain't a "conservative" group...
I'll just leave this singular example here.
Also, it is telling that- rather than acknowledging that bigotry is wrong- you actually DEFENDED John and Jane (in the hypothetical situation). And therein lies the problem with modern day liberalism: they do the very thing that they accuse others of doing... but defend their own actions because (for them) it's justified. You're a pretty intelligent (and honest) guy; yet you apparently can't see what you just did: which was to defend the bigotry of some- because you happen to agree with them. I, on the other hand, reject every form of (actual) bigotry. (I had to add the word "actual" because- again- liberals will label anyone who disagrees with them as a "bigot".) White Supremacists and Neo-Nazis ARE bigots. So was Fred Phelps and his band of pharisees. So are the people that I know who speak ignorantly about other races. I reject them all as filled with ignorance and hate. And- when given the chance- I speak publicly about them and denounce them.
I have yet to see anyone (not just here, on this website... ANYWHERE) denounce Antifa.
I think one of the biggest differences people see with Antifa is that it's reactionary. It's a group of people responding to oppression, threats of violence, etc. That would be my guess. And they're responding violently a lot of the time, fucking up traffic with protests, wearing silly pink hats... I get it. It's a whole lot of noise and disruption and frankly I don't have time for the majority of it. And I certainly don't condone their actions, although I do think watching the beat neo-Nazis with clubs is funny.
You do the exact same thing you claim is thrust upon you: you're painting all liberals under one gigantic brush. I'll admit I don't condone all forms of bigotry. I love that these hypothetical John and Janes feel the way they do. As you very well know, I think religion is poison and Trump is an incompetent fraud. How does that make me bigoted? I spent all night with a friend of mine I grew up with. She voted for Trump. We discussed it, we laughed at each other's viewpoints, it went fine. Neither of us are bigoted, but I think her viewpoints are completely and utterly retarded. And then we drank a few beers and moved on.
You really can't see the different between that and taking time out of your schedule to march for white rights? You're trying to equate the two sides (like Trump did) as equally nefarious but (like Trump again) failing miserably.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ KingBash said:
@ pumpf said:
@ KingBash said:
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
2 things. First of all: it's hard to condemn all Nazi's... when that is what liberals call every person who disagrees with them. In other words, about 50% of the country are Nazi's. So... if we are going to agree that all Nazi's are evil, then we have to agree that all conservatives are evil. MAYBE if liberals (and conservatives, for that matter) stop calling everyone with whom they disagreed "Nazi's" we could actually come to some agreement on how we SHOULD feel about the German socialist party.
Second of all, what makes "white supremacists" worse than other bigots? If Adolph hates black people because of the color of their skin... how is that existentially different from John hating someone because they are a Christian? Or Jane hating Judy because she's a conservative... or a Trump voter?
How about if we say that ALL forms of bigotry are wrong?
It's just so telling you'd rather burn your calories on this topic than just agree that white supremacists are douchebags.
How are white supremacists worse than somebody thinking Christians are assholes? Or somebody hating Trump voters? I dunno, one group believes Jews, blacks, hispanics, etc. are subhuman and should be exterminated whereas perhaps John or Jane are disgusted with religious hypocrisy and Trump's mental illness... Yeah, one in the same!
White supremacists can kiss my behind. They are terrible human beings. Everyone is a human regardless of their skin color. Now can the left not call me a Nazi bigoted gang rapist because I believe my children are better off not in the public school system or that I believe everyone should have to work for their dinner?
What are you talking about?! Who's attacking you? I'm not. We're ONLY talking about the guys that yell out "Jews will not replace us" and play dress up for rallies. I don't care about your kids or your dinner. Holy shit, the political discourse in this country is ludicrous!
I take it you dont turn on the tv or read the internet?
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ KingBash said:
@ pumpf said:
I'm guessing that everyone here who is FOR free speech is completely OK with giving people the opportunity to speak- even if they disagree with them? How about the right to not speak- when doing so would advocate for something that a person's conscience won't allow them to support? I'm guessing those folks who are clutching their pearls in this thread would also be against that, right?
I would agree with the liberals here- if they weren't such damn hypocrites. Let's face it, they are not concerned with free speech. They are concerned with making sure that THEIR ability to speak is protected; they could give a damn about protecting the speech of those with whom they disagree. And, by the way, what liberals are doing now isn't "protesting"; it is THREATENING others who disagree with them. Or they are shutting down highways, airports, etc. It's been a LONG time since I found a liberal who was truly willing to support the free speech of someone with whom they disagreed. Meanwhile they will advocate for the silencing of anyone who doesn't spew liberal viewpoints; including calling for them to be fired, harassed or even harmed. But all of that is OK; because those people won't go to jail for their viewpoints... they'll just lose their job, reputations and possibly their good health. But the "government" won't be the one to take away their right to free, though, so it's OK... except for any Christian who doesn't want to be forced to endorse something they disagree with. Then it's OK for the government to fine/jail a person. Oh, and let's not forget about Obama's IRS going after conservatives... or journalists for that matter. When he went after a person's civil liberties, it was OK... 'cause, you know, HE was cool... and he hated the same things that other liberals hated.
The utter lack of self-awareness is sad... and no longer shocking. While some rail against the spectre of Trump limiting "free speech", many liberals cheered Obama (and various state governments) for their actual attacks on free speech. And even though it's not a "first amendment" issue, they ALSO cheer when various businesses do the same thing. So forgive me if I don't take their consternation seriously. As soon as they are willing to protect ALL speech... I'll be perfectly happy to stand with them in defending the first amendment (which, ironically, includes the freedom of religion- the right to practice my religion and put my faith into practice without government opposition). Let me know when you guys are actually interested in that and I'll be right there with you.
I'm 100% for "the right" to be able to go to college campuses and speak. I think what they say is inflammatory, false, and oftentimes dangerous, but I don't like how young millenials will go and shout them down, use airhorns, sign petitions to keep them away, etc. Not all of us "liberals" support that shit. The solution to alt-right silliness (Anne Coulter, Richard Spencer, Steve Bannon) is to let them speak, expose their ideas, and counter those.
ALL speech should be protected.
This has been my default approach. But it's not working. Damned if there aren't a gazillion good folks eager to buy in to the hate and ignorance. There's a far right-wing, openly racist, misogynistic and anti-gay candidate--just a real scumbag--poised to win the presidential election in Brazil right now. He's being called the Trump of the Tropics and he's following Very Stable Genius' game plan. Hate now has a foothold in the world again. I'm not a fan of the shouting down, but I also know that the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
whats funny is that is exactly what motivates the people that are of the opposing view points as well....
IMO its all the action with little tolerance or attempting to see a position from anothers point of view is what is leading to all this evil.
No doubt. I have no doubt that Nazis and other right wingers think of us as intolerant of their point of view. I'm OK with that.
Yep, I am sure you are righteous and they aND those that disagree with your positions are all evil. There can't be any other answer.
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
Raciism is evil, I've been called a nazi because I think much of BLM is a racist movement, so now I am supposed to say all Nazis are evil....by whose definition are we labeling people as evil due to them being labeled a nazi?
I am sure there are plenty of people that are marching with all types of movements that aren't evil people aND that is what imo Trump was saying, not everybody that is lumped in or gets caught up in something is evil or deserving of the hate that they get thrown at them because of perceived intent or feelings. Yes hating a black person because of their skin color is wrong.... nobody will ever be able to quote me to the contrary without twisting the shit out of my words, but this labeling opposing views so that it instills anger and hatred towards that person is just as wrong as that can and does lead to just as bad results potentially and its that labeling that is happening right now from the lefties that is what I'm talking about.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
@ KingBash said:
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
2 things. First of all: it's hard to condemn all Nazi's... when that is what liberals call every person who disagrees with them. In other words, about 50% of the country are Nazi's. So... if we are going to agree that all Nazi's are evil, then we have to agree that all conservatives are evil. MAYBE if liberals (and conservatives, for that matter) stop calling everyone with whom they disagreed "Nazi's" we could actually come to some agreement on how we SHOULD feel about the German socialist party.
Second of all, what makes "white supremacists" worse than other bigots? If Adolph hates black people because of the color of their skin... how is that existentially different from John hating someone because they are a Christian? Or Jane hating Judy because she's a conservative... or a Trump voter?
How about if we say that ALL forms of bigotry are wrong?
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ KingBash said:
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
2 things. First of all: it's hard to condemn all Nazi's... when that is what liberals call every person who disagrees with them. In other words, about 50% of the country are Nazi's. So... if we are going to agree that all Nazi's are evil, then we have to agree that all conservatives are evil. MAYBE if liberals (and conservatives, for that matter) stop calling everyone with whom they disagreed "Nazi's" we could actually come to some agreement on how we SHOULD feel about the German socialist party.
Second of all, what makes "white supremacists" worse than other bigots? If Adolph hates black people because of the color of their skin... how is that existentially different from John hating someone because they are a Christian? Or Jane hating Judy because she's a conservative... or a Trump voter?
How about if we say that ALL forms of bigotry are wrong?
Oh my God, just stop playing the victim. Who called you a Nazi? Who called anyone a Nazi? I bring up right wing resurgence in Europe and you all play the Nazi card. What's up with that?
im on mobile so i cant copy paste easily but on page one you lumpped “nazis and other right wingers” together. I would say many of the rightys here would identify as right wingers so the answer to your question is you called us nazis.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pumpf said:
@ KingBash said:
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
2 things. First of all: it's hard to condemn all Nazi's... when that is what liberals call every person who disagrees with them. In other words, about 50% of the country are Nazi's. So... if we are going to agree that all Nazi's are evil, then we have to agree that all conservatives are evil. MAYBE if liberals (and conservatives, for that matter) stop calling everyone with whom they disagreed "Nazi's" we could actually come to some agreement on how we SHOULD feel about the German socialist party.
Second of all, what makes "white supremacists" worse than other bigots? If Adolph hates black people because of the color of their skin... how is that existentially different from John hating someone because they are a Christian? Or Jane hating Judy because she's a conservative... or a Trump voter?
How about if we say that ALL forms of bigotry are wrong?
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ KingBash said:
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
2 things. First of all: it's hard to condemn all Nazi's... when that is what liberals call every person who disagrees with them. In other words, about 50% of the country are Nazi's. So... if we are going to agree that all Nazi's are evil, then we have to agree that all conservatives are evil. MAYBE if liberals (and conservatives, for that matter) stop calling everyone with whom they disagreed "Nazi's" we could actually come to some agreement on how we SHOULD feel about the German socialist party.
Second of all, what makes "white supremacists" worse than other bigots? If Adolph hates black people because of the color of their skin... how is that existentially different from John hating someone because they are a Christian? Or Jane hating Judy because she's a conservative... or a Trump voter?
How about if we say that ALL forms of bigotry are wrong?
Oh my God, just stop playing the victim. Who called you a Nazi? Who called anyone a Nazi? I bring up right wing resurgence in Europe and you all play the Nazi card. What's up with that?
im on mobile so i cant copy paste easily but on page one you lumpped “nazis and other right wingers” together. I would say many of the rightys here would identify as right wingers so the answer to your question is you called us nazis.
LOL. That was good.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ KingBash said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ KingBash said:
@ pumpf said:
@ KingBash said:
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
2 things. First of all: it's hard to condemn all Nazi's... when that is what liberals call every person who disagrees with them. In other words, about 50% of the country are Nazi's. So... if we are going to agree that all Nazi's are evil, then we have to agree that all conservatives are evil. MAYBE if liberals (and conservatives, for that matter) stop calling everyone with whom they disagreed "Nazi's" we could actually come to some agreement on how we SHOULD feel about the German socialist party.
Second of all, what makes "white supremacists" worse than other bigots? If Adolph hates black people because of the color of their skin... how is that existentially different from John hating someone because they are a Christian? Or Jane hating Judy because she's a conservative... or a Trump voter?
How about if we say that ALL forms of bigotry are wrong?
It's just so telling you'd rather burn your calories on this topic than just agree that white supremacists are douchebags.
How are white supremacists worse than somebody thinking Christians are assholes? Or somebody hating Trump voters? I dunno, one group believes Jews, blacks, hispanics, etc. are subhuman and should be exterminated whereas perhaps John or Jane are disgusted with religious hypocrisy and Trump's mental illness... Yeah, one in the same!
White supremacists can kiss my behind. They are terrible human beings. Everyone is a human regardless of their skin color. Now can the left not call me a Nazi bigoted gang rapist because I believe my children are better off not in the public school system or that I believe everyone should have to work for their dinner?
What are you talking about?! Who's attacking you? I'm not. We're ONLY talking about the guys that yell out "Jews will not replace us" and play dress up for rallies. I don't care about your kids or your dinner. Holy shit, the political discourse in this country is ludicrous!
I take it you dont turn on the tv or read the internet?
Constantly. But I never check Fox News.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ KingBash said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ KingBash said:
@ pumpf said:
I'm guessing that everyone here who is FOR free speech is completely OK with giving people the opportunity to speak- even if they disagree with them? How about the right to not speak- when doing so would advocate for something that a person's conscience won't allow them to support? I'm guessing those folks who are clutching their pearls in this thread would also be against that, right?
I would agree with the liberals here- if they weren't such damn hypocrites. Let's face it, they are not concerned with free speech. They are concerned with making sure that THEIR ability to speak is protected; they could give a damn about protecting the speech of those with whom they disagree. And, by the way, what liberals are doing now isn't "protesting"; it is THREATENING others who disagree with them. Or they are shutting down highways, airports, etc. It's been a LONG time since I found a liberal who was truly willing to support the free speech of someone with whom they disagreed. Meanwhile they will advocate for the silencing of anyone who doesn't spew liberal viewpoints; including calling for them to be fired, harassed or even harmed. But all of that is OK; because those people won't go to jail for their viewpoints... they'll just lose their job, reputations and possibly their good health. But the "government" won't be the one to take away their right to free, though, so it's OK... except for any Christian who doesn't want to be forced to endorse something they disagree with. Then it's OK for the government to fine/jail a person. Oh, and let's not forget about Obama's IRS going after conservatives... or journalists for that matter. When he went after a person's civil liberties, it was OK... 'cause, you know, HE was cool... and he hated the same things that other liberals hated.
The utter lack of self-awareness is sad... and no longer shocking. While some rail against the spectre of Trump limiting "free speech", many liberals cheered Obama (and various state governments) for their actual attacks on free speech. And even though it's not a "first amendment" issue, they ALSO cheer when various businesses do the same thing. So forgive me if I don't take their consternation seriously. As soon as they are willing to protect ALL speech... I'll be perfectly happy to stand with them in defending the first amendment (which, ironically, includes the freedom of religion- the right to practice my religion and put my faith into practice without government opposition). Let me know when you guys are actually interested in that and I'll be right there with you.
I'm 100% for "the right" to be able to go to college campuses and speak. I think what they say is inflammatory, false, and oftentimes dangerous, but I don't like how young millenials will go and shout them down, use airhorns, sign petitions to keep them away, etc. Not all of us "liberals" support that shit. The solution to alt-right silliness (Anne Coulter, Richard Spencer, Steve Bannon) is to let them speak, expose their ideas, and counter those.
ALL speech should be protected.
This has been my default approach. But it's not working. Damned if there aren't a gazillion good folks eager to buy in to the hate and ignorance. There's a far right-wing, openly racist, misogynistic and anti-gay candidate--just a real scumbag--poised to win the presidential election in Brazil right now. He's being called the Trump of the Tropics and he's following Very Stable Genius' game plan. Hate now has a foothold in the world again. I'm not a fan of the shouting down, but I also know that the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
whats funny is that is exactly what motivates the people that are of the opposing view points as well....
IMO its all the action with little tolerance or attempting to see a position from anothers point of view is what is leading to all this evil.
No doubt. I have no doubt that Nazis and other right wingers think of us as intolerant of their point of view. I'm OK with that.
Yep, I am sure you are righteous and they aND those that disagree with your positions are all evil. There can't be any other answer.
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
I am sure there are plenty of people that are marching with all types of movements that aren't evil people aND that is what imo Trump was saying, not everybody that is lumped in or gets caught up in something is evil or deserving of the hate that they get thrown at them because of perceived intent or feelings. Yes hating a black person because of their skin color is wrong.... nobody will ever be able to quote me to the contrary without twisting the shit out of my words, but this labeling opposing views so that it instills anger and hatred towards that person is just as wrong as that can and does lead to just as bad results potentially and its that labeling that is happening right now from the lefties that is what I'm talking about.
So that's it right there. I've always wondered who the people were who saw Trump say "fine people on both sides" and now I know.
It's this victim-mentality from the Fox News viewers. Instead of denouncing white supremacy immediately, there's a lot of this sentiment. "Well there are evil people on both sides!" Yeah, there are.
It's the same thing whenever people call Trump out for being an incompetent liar. Instead of going, "Yeah, he really lied about x, y, and z and that's not acceptable," it immediately turns into, "Yeah, but OBAMA and HILLARY..."
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ KingBash said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ KingBash said:
I'm 100% for "the right" to be able to go to college campuses and speak. I think what they say is inflammatory, false, and oftentimes dangerous, but I don't like how young millenials will go and shout them down, use airhorns, sign petitions to keep them away, etc. Not all of us "liberals" support that shit. The solution to alt-right silliness (Anne Coulter, Richard Spencer, Steve Bannon) is to let them speak, expose their ideas, and counter those.
ALL speech should be protected.
This has been my default approach. But it's not working. Damned if there aren't a gazillion good folks eager to buy in to the hate and ignorance. There's a far right-wing, openly racist, misogynistic and anti-gay candidate--just a real scumbag--poised to win the presidential election in Brazil right now. He's being called the Trump of the Tropics and he's following Very Stable Genius' game plan. Hate now has a foothold in the world again. I'm not a fan of the shouting down, but I also know that the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
whats funny is that is exactly what motivates the people that are of the opposing view points as well....
IMO its all the action with little tolerance or attempting to see a position from anothers point of view is what is leading to all this evil.
No doubt. I have no doubt that Nazis and other right wingers think of us as intolerant of their point of view. I'm OK with that.
Yep, I am sure you are righteous and they aND those that disagree with your positions are all evil. There can't be any other answer.
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
I am sure there are plenty of people that are marching with all types of movements that aren't evil people aND that is what imo Trump was saying, not everybody that is lumped in or gets caught up in something is evil or deserving of the hate that they get thrown at them because of perceived intent or feelings. Yes hating a black person because of their skin color is wrong.... nobody will ever be able to quote me to the contrary without twisting the shit out of my words, but this labeling opposing views so that it instills anger and hatred towards that person is just as wrong as that can and does lead to just as bad results potentially and its that labeling that is happening right now from the lefties that is what I'm talking about.
So that's it right there. I've always wondered who the people were who saw Trump say "fine people on both sides" and now I know.
It's this victim-mentality from the Fox News viewers. Instead of denouncing white supremacy immediately, there's a lot of this sentiment. "Well there are evil people on both sides!" Yeah, there are.
It's the same thing whenever people call Trump out for being an incompetent liar. Instead of going, "Yeah, he really lied about x, y, and z and that's not acceptable," it immediately turns into, "Yeah, but OBAMA and HILLARY..."
yep its me, I see lots of people get lumped into shit that doesnt define them on both sides of these issues. do i think every lefty that is at these protests that turns violent are shit stains on society...no I dont and its those people... people on both sides of an issue, that Trump was talking about. he wasnt saying that the racists are good, but he aknowledges that there are fringe elements that take over good or benign causes that makes the message take on an evil tone.
see this is why I we cant have a conversation in here. I make a statement and you try and use it as a gotcha moment instead of trying to see it from my perspective or asking. there is no winning in here, if you think you get some internet street cred for taking a partial statement and trying to twist it... go for it.
fuck it i am out. I fought for this place in hopes that we could have adult conversations like we did when this board got started, a way for me to try and see things from others perspectives... it really used to happen, but I can see that isnt possible any longer.
its been fun, last one out turn out the lights.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ KingBash said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ KingBash said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ KingBash said:
I'm 100% for "the right" to be able to go to college campuses and speak. I think what they say is inflammatory, false, and oftentimes dangerous, but I don't like how young millenials will go and shout them down, use airhorns, sign petitions to keep them away, etc. Not all of us "liberals" support that shit. The solution to alt-right silliness (Anne Coulter, Richard Spencer, Steve Bannon) is to let them speak, expose their ideas, and counter those.
ALL speech should be protected.
This has been my default approach. But it's not working. Damned if there aren't a gazillion good folks eager to buy in to the hate and ignorance. There's a far right-wing, openly racist, misogynistic and anti-gay candidate--just a real scumbag--poised to win the presidential election in Brazil right now. He's being called the Trump of the Tropics and he's following Very Stable Genius' game plan. Hate now has a foothold in the world again. I'm not a fan of the shouting down, but I also know that the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
whats funny is that is exactly what motivates the people that are of the opposing view points as well....
IMO its all the action with little tolerance or attempting to see a position from anothers point of view is what is leading to all this evil.
No doubt. I have no doubt that Nazis and other right wingers think of us as intolerant of their point of view. I'm OK with that.
Yep, I am sure you are righteous and they aND those that disagree with your positions are all evil. There can't be any other answer.
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
I am sure there are plenty of people that are marching with all types of movements that aren't evil people aND that is what imo Trump was saying, not everybody that is lumped in or gets caught up in something is evil or deserving of the hate that they get thrown at them because of perceived intent or feelings. Yes hating a black person because of their skin color is wrong.... nobody will ever be able to quote me to the contrary without twisting the shit out of my words, but this labeling opposing views so that it instills anger and hatred towards that person is just as wrong as that can and does lead to just as bad results potentially and its that labeling that is happening right now from the lefties that is what I'm talking about.
So that's it right there. I've always wondered who the people were who saw Trump say "fine people on both sides" and now I know.
It's this victim-mentality from the Fox News viewers. Instead of denouncing white supremacy immediately, there's a lot of this sentiment. "Well there are evil people on both sides!" Yeah, there are.
It's the same thing whenever people call Trump out for being an incompetent liar. Instead of going, "Yeah, he really lied about x, y, and z and that's not acceptable," it immediately turns into, "Yeah, but OBAMA and HILLARY..."
yep its me, I see lots of people get lumped into shit that doesnt define them on both sides of these issues. do i think every lefty that is at these protests that turns violent are shit stains on society...no I dont and its those people... people on both sides of an issue, that Trump was talking about. he wasnt saying that the racists are good, but he aknowledges that there are fringe elements that take over good or benign causes that makes the message take on an evil tone.
see this is why I we cant have a conversation in here. I make a statement and you try and use it as a gotcha moment instead of trying to see it from my perspective or asking. there is no winning in here, if you think you get some internet street cred for taking a partial statement and trying to twist it... go for it.
fuck it i am out. I fought for this place in hopes that we could have adult conversations like we did when this board got started, a way for me to try and see things from others perspectives... it really used to happen, but I can see that isnt possible any longer.
its been fun, last one out turn out the lights.
Sorry I pointed out flaws in your logic. All I said was that instead of just outright saying white supremacists are shit stains, I find it odd that conservatives burn calories saying, "Well, there's bad people and good people on both sides." If that's a "gotcha" moment, then the blame lies with you, not me.
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