Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ FSUVike said:
How is a healthy Sam a Franchise QB? When has he ever put a team on his back and carried them to an important win?
I love the arm talent, but there's zero GUMP factor. Hell, Rivers has played many seasons with comparable talent to what Bradford has had around him most of his career and yet Rivers is the one who consistently gets his teams in the Playoff hunt, not Sam.
I would agree that in terms of "IT" factor, leadership, moxie, whatever you want to call it, Sam doesn't appear to have it quite to the level of Teddy.
But for someone who (correctly) insists on factoring in context, you seem to be ignoring a lot with this. Last year was the first time in his career that Bradford had any kind of supporting cast. And that was with a terrible offensive line.
There's no doubt in my mind if Bradford had remained our starter, we'd be talking about him now as one of the elite QBs in the NFL. A franchise QB.
Many Tier 2 QBs have had mediocre supporting casts and managed to stay in the Playoff hunt. Sam has not.
And I have doubts that had he stayed healthy he would have continued to play at the level he did against the Saints.
I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.
Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.
Yet, we've also seen Teddy have far higher turnover ratios and essentially nothing consistent in his long-pass game...so...if past is prologue, Teddy is, by your logic, very limited.
Quote: @Norse said:
@ FSUVike said
I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.
Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.
I have to disagree...What did Teddy do more of? I wouldn't be bragging about a 30th ranked passing attack.
Sam had way less...he went through 14 different linemen and he had no AP. He pretty much had no running back at all.
As far as past behavior is indicative of the future. Take Foles for instance He didn't last a season as the starting QB for the Rams and Jeff Fisher as coach.
keenum had his worst season as a Ram and his best as a Viking.
Context, as always. First, Norv running his Air Corryel system best suited for a guy like Ben or Rivers with a QB that best fits a WCO system.
Second, Norv's ultra-predictable run AP up the gut on first and second down playcalling.
Third, people quickly forget that Teddy played behind one of the worst O-Lines we had ever seen until the one Sam had to deal with. Does that all the sudden make the Line Teddy had not god awful or are we just victims of recency bias.
Fourth, no WRs. Diggs was a Rookie that was on the bench for a good chunk of the season. Thielen was a non factor. Wallace was a one trick pony. The best WR option was actually Wright.
And are you already forgetting the year where Foles tore up the League?
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ FSUVike said:
How is a healthy Sam a Franchise QB? When has he ever put a team on his back and carried them to an important win?
I love the arm talent, but there's zero GUMP factor. Hell, Rivers has played many seasons with comparable talent to what Bradford has had around him most of his career and yet Rivers is the one who consistently gets his teams in the Playoff hunt, not Sam.
I would agree that in terms of "IT" factor, leadership, moxie, whatever you want to call it, Sam doesn't appear to have it quite to the level of Teddy.
But for someone who (correctly) insists on factoring in context, you seem to be ignoring a lot with this. Last year was the first time in his career that Bradford had any kind of supporting cast. And that was with a terrible offensive line.
There's no doubt in my mind if Bradford had remained our starter, we'd be talking about him now as one of the elite QBs in the NFL. A franchise QB.
Many Tier 2 QBs have had mediocre supporting casts and managed to stay in the Playoff hunt. Sam has not.
And I have doubts that had he stayed healthy he would have continued to play at the level he did against the Saints.
I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.
Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.
Yet, we've also seen Teddy have far higher turnover ratios and essentially nothing consistent in his long-pass game...so...if past is prologue, Teddy is, by your logic, very limited.
And yet he got his team with less weapons to the Playoffs where Sam couldn't.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ Norse said:
@ FSUVike said
I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.
Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.
I have to disagree...What did Teddy do more of? I wouldn't be bragging about a 30th ranked passing attack.
Sam had way less...he went through 14 different linemen and he had no AP. He pretty much had no running back at all.
As far as past behavior is indicative of the future. Take Foles for instance He didn't last a season as the starting QB for the Rams and Jeff Fisher as coach.
keenum had his worst season as a Ram and his best as a Viking.
Context, as always. First, Norv running his Air Corryel system best suited for a guy like Ben or Rivers with a QB that best fits a WCO system.
Second, Norv's ultra-predictable run AP up the gut on first and second down playcalling.
Third, people quickly forget that Teddy played behind one of the worst O-Lines we had ever seen until the one Sam had to deal with. Does that all the sudden make the Line Teddy had not god awful or are we just victims of recency bias.
Fourth, no WRs. Diggs was a Rookie that was on the bench for a good chunk of the season. Thielen was a non factor. Wallace was a one trick pony. The best WR option was actually Wright.
And are you already forgetting the year where Foles tore up the League?
Teddy was on an 11-5 team with a RB who won the rushing title. "terrible line"
Sam and Keenum played for Jeff Fisher and the Rams had the worst years of their careers
But there is no excuses for them..They were lousy and couldn't get it done.
But Teddy has a book full of excuses some stated above.
The bottom line is until Teddy puts up the numbers that Keenum did this year, he is not as good as Keenum.
Are we willing to chance a season to see what Teddy has? Or is our time right now.
Edit: No I didn't forget Foles 27 TD and 2 int season under Kelly and Shurmur. The the following year after being traded he went to the Rams and was benched by week 9.
No recievers...pretty had the same recievers that is on our current roster.
Quote: @Norse said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ Norse said:
@ FSUVike said
I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.
Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.
I have to disagree...What did Teddy do more of? I wouldn't be bragging about a 30th ranked passing attack.
Sam had way less...he went through 14 different linemen and he had no AP. He pretty much had no running back at all.
As far as past behavior is indicative of the future. Take Foles for instance He didn't last a season as the starting QB for the Rams and Jeff Fisher as coach.
keenum had his worst season as a Ram and his best as a Viking.
Context, as always. First, Norv running his Air Corryel system best suited for a guy like Ben or Rivers with a QB that best fits a WCO system.
Second, Norv's ultra-predictable run AP up the gut on first and second down playcalling.
Third, people quickly forget that Teddy played behind one of the worst O-Lines we had ever seen until the one Sam had to deal with. Does that all the sudden make the Line Teddy had not god awful or are we just victims of recency bias.
Fourth, no WRs. Diggs was a Rookie that was on the bench for a good chunk of the season. Thielen was a non factor. Wallace was a one trick pony. The best WR option was actually Wright.
And are you already forgetting the year where Foles tore up the League?
Teddy was on an 11-5 team with a RB who won the rushing title. "terrible line"
Sam and Keenum played for Jeff Fisher and the Rams had the worst years of their careers
But there is no excuses for them..They were lousy and couldn't get it done.
But Teddy has a book full of excuses some stated above.
The bottom line is until Teddy puts up the numbers that Keenum did this year, he is not as good as Keenum.
Are we willing to chance a season to see what Teddy has? Or is our time right now.
run blocking and pass blocking are 2 completely different animals. especially when you factor in the horribly predictable play calling. IIRC Teddy had the least amount of time of any QB in the league that year which is asking a lot from a guy that was forced to hand it off more often than not on first down and ultimately ended up having to pass on way to many 3rd and longs due to that top RB getting stuffed on at least 1 of his 2 carries in each series of downs.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ Zanary said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ FSUVike said:
How is a healthy Sam a Franchise QB? When has he ever put a team on his back and carried them to an important win?
I love the arm talent, but there's zero GUMP factor. Hell, Rivers has played many seasons with comparable talent to what Bradford has had around him most of his career and yet Rivers is the one who consistently gets his teams in the Playoff hunt, not Sam.
I would agree that in terms of "IT" factor, leadership, moxie, whatever you want to call it, Sam doesn't appear to have it quite to the level of Teddy.
But for someone who (correctly) insists on factoring in context, you seem to be ignoring a lot with this. Last year was the first time in his career that Bradford had any kind of supporting cast. And that was with a terrible offensive line.
There's no doubt in my mind if Bradford had remained our starter, we'd be talking about him now as one of the elite QBs in the NFL. A franchise QB.
Many Tier 2 QBs have had mediocre supporting casts and managed to stay in the Playoff hunt. Sam has not.
And I have doubts that had he stayed healthy he would have continued to play at the level he did against the Saints.
I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.
Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.
Yet, we've also seen Teddy have far higher turnover ratios and essentially nothing consistent in his long-pass game...so...if past is prologue, Teddy is, by your logic, very limited.
And yet he got his team with less weapons to the Playoffs where Sam couldn't.
Huh...that's funny, I'm pretty sure the TEAM did it...including 1485 yards from AP, who was always the first focus of the opposing defenses. Kind of a HUGE omission there...dontcha think?
He also had Mike Wallace, but couldn't seem to use him effectively. Funny thing, he's been a pretty good weapon with other QBs...but had the fewest of his career with Teddy. Hell, he more than doubled his production the next season, with Baltimore.
14 TDs vs 9 INTs...whereas Sam did 6 more TDs and 4 less INTs, and didn't start 'til week 2.
I'm afraid I wouldn't trust your analytics too far.
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ Zanary said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ FSUVike said:
How is a healthy Sam a Franchise QB? When has he ever put a team on his back and carried them to an important win?
I love the arm talent, but there's zero GUMP factor. Hell, Rivers has played many seasons with comparable talent to what Bradford has had around him most of his career and yet Rivers is the one who consistently gets his teams in the Playoff hunt, not Sam.
I would agree that in terms of "IT" factor, leadership, moxie, whatever you want to call it, Sam doesn't appear to have it quite to the level of Teddy.
But for someone who (correctly) insists on factoring in context, you seem to be ignoring a lot with this. Last year was the first time in his career that Bradford had any kind of supporting cast. And that was with a terrible offensive line.
There's no doubt in my mind if Bradford had remained our starter, we'd be talking about him now as one of the elite QBs in the NFL. A franchise QB.
Many Tier 2 QBs have had mediocre supporting casts and managed to stay in the Playoff hunt. Sam has not.
And I have doubts that had he stayed healthy he would have continued to play at the level he did against the Saints.
I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.
Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.
Yet, we've also seen Teddy have far higher turnover ratios and essentially nothing consistent in his long-pass game...so...if past is prologue, Teddy is, by your logic, very limited.
And yet he got his team with less weapons to the Playoffs where Sam couldn't.
Huh...that's funny, I'm pretty sure the TEAM did it...including 1485 yards from AP, who was always the first focus of the opposing defenses. Kind of a HUGE omission there...dontcha think?
He also had Mike Wallace, but couldn't seem to use him effectively. Funny thing, he's been a pretty good weapon with other QBs...but had the fewest of his career with Teddy. Hell, he more than doubled his production the next season, with Baltimore.
14 TDs vs 9 INTs...whereas Sam did 6 more TDs and 4 less INTs, and didn't start 'til week 2.
I'm afraid I wouldn't trust your analytics too far.
you are comparing a qb in a norv offense in his second year in the league to a qb in a hybrid offense in his 5th (?) year in the league. its absurd to think that Teddy was anywhere near a finished product or to say that Sam didnt have a better supporting cast (minus the OL) than Teddy. to try and compare the two situations is absurd as trying to compare what Sam did in 16 to what Case did in 17. thats what makes all this such a joke as none of us really have any idea of what to expect out of any of the 3.
Love the cherry picking of stats.
Teddy QBed his team to a NFCN title and the playoffs in his second year professionally.
But that was about the team and Adrian. But Adrian sucked and was a one trick pony and Norv sucked but Teddy held the offense back.
Case led his team to the #2 seed and a bye in the playoffs and was magical or just a system QB depending on who you ask.
Sam changed teams/offenses right before the season and was a miracle worker and set records yet he didn't win. But he had an awful line with injuries galore.
So there, we have it on the table. Pick your excuses, figure out what stats you want to cherry pick to concoct your opinion. There is plenty of data here for everyone to pick some random player or stat that will bolster your "facts". Get here early to use the best ones before they are beaten like a dead horse.
Quote: @greediron said:
Love the cherry picking of stats.
Teddy QBed his team to a NFCN title and the playoffs in his second year professionally.
But that was about the team and Adrian. But Adrian sucked and was a one trick pony and Norv sucked but Teddy held the offense back.
Case led his team to the #2 seed and a bye in the playoffs and was magical or just a system QB depending on who you ask.
Sam changed teams/offenses right before the season and was a miracle worker and set records yet he didn't win. But he had an awful line with injuries galore.
So there, we have it on the table. Pick your excuses, figure out what stats you want to cherry pick to concoct your opinion. There is plenty of data here for everyone to pick some random player or stat that will bolster your "facts". Get here early to use the best ones before they are beaten like a dead horse.
I think the horse has been dead for quite a while.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
Love the cherry picking of stats.
Teddy QBed his team to a NFCN title and the playoffs in his second year professionally.
But that was about the team and Adrian. But Adrian sucked and was a one trick pony and Norv sucked but Teddy held the offense back.
Case led his team to the #2 seed and a bye in the playoffs and was magical or just a system QB depending on who you ask.
Sam changed teams/offenses right before the season and was a miracle worker and set records yet he didn't win. But he had an awful line with injuries galore.
So there, we have it on the table. Pick your excuses, figure out what stats you want to cherry pick to concoct your opinion. There is plenty of data here for everyone to pick some random player or stat that will bolster your "facts". Get here early to use the best ones before they are beaten like a dead horse.
I think the horse has been dead for quite a while.
Yet somehow we will get this nag across the finish line.
|
