Traitor in Chief Trump Has His Buddy's Back

[badgervike]

Looks like Z got the memo...

We'll see if the two sides can get anywhere. They'd have no chance of success without the US and Europeans involved and even at that, I have my doubts...but if it saves lives..it's worth the effort. The only way to get Putin to the table is through leverage...and the Ukrainians don't have the leverage without us.

[Zanary]

Looks like Z got the memo...

We'll see if the two sides can get anywhere.  They'd have no chance of success without the US and Europeans involved and even at that, I have my doubts...but if it saves lives..it's worth the effort.

It's the same memo, both minerals and security are in his tweet. Friday was all about theater, which continues as Vance basically insulted the UK and France by marginalizing their parts in our recent wars (then backtracking, oops, I didn't mean YOU GUYS despite the obvious topic), and Noem parroting the "51st State" insults at a border library.

This is a full-on classless administration. It's making complete hypocrites of Rubio and others that plainly described Putin as the murderous s**tpile he is...but now, are expected to tow the "yeah, y'know, invasions and huge murder-fests are so easily misunderstood" line.

I kinda wonder how hard the appointees have to scrub at home, to get the stench off...?

[Waterboy]

It's the same memo, both minerals and security are in his tweet. Friday was all about theater, which continues as Vance basically insulted the UK and France by marginalizing their parts in our recent wars (then backtracking, oops, I didn't mean YOU GUYS despite the obvious topic), and Noem parroting the "51st State" insults at a border library.

This is a full-on classless administration. It's making complete hypocrites of Rubio and others that plainly described Putin as the murderous s**tpile he is...but now, are expected to tow the "yeah, y'know, invasions and huge murder-fests are so easily misunderstood" line.

I kinda wonder how hard the appointees have to scrub at home, to get the stench off...?

Yeah, it doesn't really matter that we're making progress on ending the war, mass illegal immigration, and the flow of fentanyl into the US.   We should exhibit more class.  lol

[Zanary]

From a country that's literally next door to the conflict, and has had some munitions land in their territory:

"Former President of Poland Lech Walesa wrote the following letter to Trump.
Your Excellency, Mr. President,
We watched the report of your conversation with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, with fear and distaste. We find it insulting that you expect Ukraine to show respect and gratitude for the material assistance provided by the United States in its fight against russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who shed their blood in defense of the values of the free world. They have been dying on the front lines for more than 11 years in the name of these values and the independence of their homeland, which was attacked by Putin’s russia.
We do not understand how the leader of a country that symbolizes the free world cannot recognize this.
Our alarm was also heightened by the atmosphere in the Oval Office during this conversation, which reminded us of the interrogations we endured at the hands of the Security Services and the debates in Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, acting on behalf of the all-powerful communist political police, would explain to us that they held all the power while we held none. They demanded that we cease our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedoms and civil rights because we refused to cooperate with the government or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Volodymyr Zelensky was treated in the same manner.
The history of the 20th century shows that whenever the United States sought to distance itself from democratic values and its European allies, it ultimately became a threat to itself. President Woodrow Wilson understood this when he decided in 1917 that the United States must join World War I. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt understood this when, after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, he resolved that the war to defend America must be fought not only in the Pacific but also in Europe, in alliance with the nations under attack by the Third Reich.
We remember that without President Ronald Reagan and America’s financial commitment, the collapse of the Soviet empire would not have been possible. President Reagan recognized that millions of enslaved people suffered in Soviet russia and the countries it had subjugated, including thousands of political prisoners who paid for their defense of democratic values with their freedom. His greatness lay, among other things, in his unwavering decision to call the USSR an “Empire of Evil” and to fight it decisively. We won, and today, the statue of President Ronald Reagan stands in Warsaw, facing the U.S. Embassy.
Mr. President, material aid—military and financial—can never be equated with the blood shed in the name of Ukraine’s independence and the freedom of Europe and the entire free world. Human life is priceless; its value cannot be measured in money. Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and their freedom. This is self-evident to us, the people of Solidarity, former political prisoners of the communist regime under Soviet russia.
We call on the United States to uphold the guarantees made alongside Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity in exchange for its relinquishment of nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional—there is no mention of treating such assistance as an economic transaction.
Signed,
Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland"

[badgervike]

From a country that's literally next door to the conflict, and has had some munitions land in their territory:

"Former President of Poland Lech Walesa wrote the following letter to Trump.
Your Excellency, Mr. President,
We watched the report of your conversation with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, with fear and distaste. We find it insulting that you expect Ukraine to show respect and gratitude for the material assistance provided by the United States in its fight against russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who shed their blood in defense of the values of the free world. They have been dying on the front lines for more than 11 years in the name of these values and the independence of their homeland, which was attacked by Putin’s russia.
We do not understand how the leader of a country that symbolizes the free world cannot recognize this.
Our alarm was also heightened by the atmosphere in the Oval Office during this conversation, which reminded us of the interrogations we endured at the hands of the Security Services and the debates in Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, acting on behalf of the all-powerful communist political police, would explain to us that they held all the power while we held none. They demanded that we cease our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedoms and civil rights because we refused to cooperate with the government or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Volodymyr Zelensky was treated in the same manner.
The history of the 20th century shows that whenever the United States sought to distance itself from democratic values and its European allies, it ultimately became a threat to itself. President Woodrow Wilson understood this when he decided in 1917 that the United States must join World War I. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt understood this when, after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, he resolved that the war to defend America must be fought not only in the Pacific but also in Europe, in alliance with the nations under attack by the Third Reich.
We remember that without President Ronald Reagan and America’s financial commitment, the collapse of the Soviet empire would not have been possible. President Reagan recognized that millions of enslaved people suffered in Soviet russia and the countries it had subjugated, including thousands of political prisoners who paid for their defense of democratic values with their freedom. His greatness lay, among other things, in his unwavering decision to call the USSR an “Empire of Evil” and to fight it decisively. We won, and today, the statue of President Ronald Reagan stands in Warsaw, facing the U.S. Embassy.
Mr. President, material aid—military and financial—can never be equated with the blood shed in the name of Ukraine’s independence and the freedom of Europe and the entire free world. Human life is priceless; its value cannot be measured in money. Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and their freedom. This is self-evident to us, the people of Solidarity, former political prisoners of the communist regime under Soviet russia.
We call on the United States to uphold the guarantees made alongside Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity in exchange for its relinquishment of nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional—there is no mention of treating such assistance as an economic transaction.
Signed,
Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland"

I saw that earlier.  My first reaction was "I thought he was dead" lol.  The old revolutionary fighters die hard.  I get it.  He's also not wrong about the Budapest Memorandum.  The time to have enforced the provisions under that was in 2014 however and subsequently during the invasion of Donbas.  The signees including England, France, US should have enforced that agreement early.  Certainly we should have in 2021 when Russian invaded the Ukraine.  You would have thought it would be a priority for them since I believe that Antony Blinken's father was the US signatory when he was Ambassador.  The UN also had a responsibility to step in (both times). 

I was surprised the few times that I was in Poland and Walesa wasn't more highly regarded.  We always think of him as this iconic figure.  The Poles are quite ambivalent about him.  He was evidently a better revolutionary than he was a leader.  Idk...just surprised me.

Zelensky needed a little tough love by his largest benefactor to move on from wartime mode and start to negotiate in earnest.  Glad it looks like he's at least listening.  Now will see how much pressure can be applied to Russia to push the boundaries back.  As Zelensky said, there would be no boundaries without the Javelins provided under Trump 45.  The whole country would have surely fallen.

[Zanary]

I saw that earlier.  My first reaction was "I thought he was dead" lol.  The old revolutionary fighters die hard.  I get it.  He's also not wrong about the Budapest Memorandum.  The time to have enforced the provisions under that was in 2014 however and subsequently during the invasion of Donbas.  The signees including England, France, US should have enforced that agreement early.  Certainly we should have in 2021 when Russian invaded the Ukraine.  You would have thought it would be a priority for them since I believe that Antony Blinken's father was the US signatory when he was Ambassador.  The UN also had a responsibility to step in (both times). 

I was surprised the few times that I was in Poland and Walesa wasn't more highly regarded.  We always think of him as this iconic figure.  The Poles are quite ambivalent about him.  He was evidently a better revolutionary than he was a leader.  Idk...just surprised me.

Zelensky needed a little tough love by his largest benefactor to move on from wartime mode and start to negotiate in earnest.  Glad it looks like he's at least listening.  Now will see how much pressure can be applied to Russia to push the boundaries back.  As Zelensky said, there would be no boundaries without the Javelins provided under Trump 45.  The whole country would have surely fallen.

There's no love, tough or otherwise, from our s**tbag traitor in chief, just theater that "gambles with WWIII" as much as anyone else in the mess.

The Javelins did a lot of good, the legendary toughness of the people that defeated Russian tanks with tractors was, and is, far more impressive.

Any goodwill regarding the Javelins should be pretty jaundiced by the already-agreed shipments halted, and for...theater. Just theater, so everyone can applaud the traitor in chief.

[Zanary]

So, he's now passively-aggressively accusing Europe of not having our back, despite everything from recent years against terror, etc.

He should just take Putin's last name, make the marriage official, but please move to papa Putin's place and leave us out of it.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-nato-uk...f611393999

"Trump said Thursday in the Oval Office that other countries would not come to the defense of the U.S. — though they have done exactly that, in the only instance that the Article 5 defense guarantee was invoked."

How much more blatant, disastrous, and fully Russian-positive s**t does anyone need? For f**k's sake, folks....

[JimmyinSD]

I dont think some people get to make fun of others posting incessantly on the same topic any longer.

[Zanary]

I dont think some people get to make fun of others posting incessantly on the same topic any longer.

Yeah, because it's not like this is a current event with massive global consequences or anything, involving our own leader and potential international war...

...vs hammering on decisions made by our treasonous trash president 5 years ago, a nasty little science administrator, and dozens of links to conspiracy echo chambers.

The bias/favoritism can be seen from Alpha Centauri.

That said...no comment on the sunkist stain basically telling NATO that they don't have our backs, despite plenty of years on contrary evidence?

My shock is second only to...yeah, nevermind. No shock, whatsoever.

[JimmyinSD]

Yeah, because it's not like this is a current event with massive global consequences or anything, involving our own leader and potential international war...

...vs hammering on decisions made by our treasonous trash president 5 years ago, a nasty little science administrator, and dozens of links to conspiracy echo chambers.

The bias/favoritism can be seen from Alpha Centauri.

That said...no comment on the sunkist stain basically telling NATO that they don't have our backs, despite plenty of years on contrary evidence?

My shock is second only to...yeah, nevermind. No shock, whatsoever.

keep on yammering,  like I say,  I dont really read your juvenile nonsense on this matter,  but have noted that you are largely talking to yourself much like another poster that you seem to like to mock for the same thing only on a different topic.