Quote: @Havoc1649 said:
@ comet52 said:
@ MaroonBells said:If the Vikings fail to sign Cousins and then don't immediately turn that added headroom to secure Hunter and/or a handful of top free agents, I will be very surprised.
Hmm. Kwesi's value approach puts a price on a player and then sticks to it. It's the stock trader approach - establish what you think the value price is and never let emotion enter into a buying/selling decision.
So does Kirk leaving somehow change the value he puts on Hunter? This is not the Wall Street trader's methodology - "A stock I wanted got away, so I'll overpay for this other one now."
Man I hope you are wrong on Kwesi approaching this like stocks. That would be insanely naive if he is. There are thousands of stocks while there are 15 or so solid NFL QB’s. There are maybe 8 at Cousins level or better. It’s a highly limited commodity and you HAVE to have it. It isn’t optional. If I were owner and I heard him say something like that, I’d fire him immediately. That would make it obvious he doesn’t get it.
From the outside it kinda looks like this is how he's doing things. The owners hired the guy and obviously took his Wall Street background into account. They are New York area corporate types, it's a comfortable fit for them I would imagine.
The fact that he could have had Kirk on a good deal a year ago but didn't says something. But fans disagree on exactly what that something is or means. To me his approach looks like buying prices not players. Just like pro gamblers will tell you they bet numbers not teams. Whether you can build an NFL team that way I don't know... so far the results are nothing to get excited about.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ comet52 said:
@ MaroonBells said:If the Vikings fail to sign Cousins and then don't immediately turn that added headroom to secure Hunter and/or a handful of top free agents, I will be very surprised.
Hmm. Kwesi's value approach puts a price on a player and then sticks to it. It's the stock trader approach - establish what you think the value price is and never let emotion enter into a buying/selling decision.
So does Kirk leaving somehow change the value he puts on Hunter? This is not the Wall Street trader's methodology - "A stock I wanted got away, so I'll overpay for this other one now."
Yeah, of course. This isn't the stock market. If the Vikings don't have Kirk's big dollars clogging up future years, it frees them up financially to do a number of things. If it's not Hunter it will be someone like him.
I mean isn't that the whole point? Is that what we've been hearing from the Kirk haters? Move on from that Kohl's cashin' greedy motherfucker so we can have some money to build up our roster?
Hell, if we fail to land Cousins AND Hunter AND fail to sign any top free agents, then what's the point of having $150M in cap space next year?
And I sure as hell hope you're wrong about Kwesi's methodology, because that is the exact wrong way to run a franchise. You have to be elastic and adapt based on changes in cap reality, the market and new information.
"The mark of wisdom is the ability to change your mind in the face of new facts." -- someone smart
I don't know if I'm right or wrong on KAM's methodology, I just think from things I've read, I'm just trying to piece together what is actually going on. We're all just blind men describing an elephant here, since we have little or no real information beyond public rhetoric which is mostly useless. I try to look at the actions and figure out what they mean.
As for 100m cap space next year, I don't know what the plan is but I have heard that some at TCO feel like that would be a good position to be in.
Well, the windshield is bigger than the rearview mirror for a reason.
"I think" I am seeing some method to what appears to be Eagan madness at times.
The biggest fruit of that labor was getting the cap in a much better spot. Obviously they were trying to remain competitive over 23/24 with mixed results. Some of that was within their control, things like a blown achilles heel were not.
All that still leaves us at the start of a crazy important off-season.
5 Potential Kirko Replacements.
I'd say the odds are high the starter in September could come from these lists...
DARNOLD:
This is the name that comes up most in discussions with people within the industry.
Darnold, 26, wouldn’t break the bank. Vikings quarterbacks coach Josh McCown developed a relationship with him in New York. Adofo-Mensah and the front office are close with executives in San Francisco, which signed Darnold last offseason. Multiple factors make this a feasible move, but don’t get it twisted: Darnold will be available at a palatable cost for several reasons…
Signing Darnold to an inexpensive deal would give the Vikings more money to allocate to the defense. The move would also serve as a fascinating litmus test to see whether O’Connell’s system and the Vikings’ offensive talent could prop up a quarterback.
Tannehill:
Quote:One of the central questions hovering over the Vikings’ future at quarterback is this: Do Adofo-Mensah and O’Connell have time?
Tannehill’s ceiling might be as low as any name on this list, but he is battle-tested. He has started 119 NFL games over the past decade. The 35-year-old is fairly accurate, and he has played in systems built around the play-action passing game. Still, while Cousins ranks 13th among the 46 qualified quarterbacks in expected points added in third-and-long situations, Tannehill ranks 34th.
Had the Washington Commanders made Brissett available at the 2023 trade deadline, the Vikings likely would have shown an interest. Brissett doesn’t bring many explosive characteristics to the table, but among the 46 quarterbacks who have thrown 800 passes since 2017, his interception rate per pass attempt is lower than all but Aaron Rodgers’ and Drew Brees’.
Brissett is like Tannehill in that he’d be a serviceable veteran option who, alongside McCown, would likely be a great mentor to a rookie signal caller.
FIELDS:
Fields is more of an unknown than the other names on this list, but his athletic traits might make him the most intriguing.
The 25-year-old has started 38 games as a pro. Sorting by passing statistics, Fields’ EPA per dropback is 45th among 46 qualified quarterbacks, ahead of only Zach Wilson. In other words, doubts abound.
WILSON:
O'Connell built his offense around rhythm and timing. A quarterback's drop is tied to the receiver's routes. The quarterback must hit his back foot, process quickly and deliver the football accurately.Wilson, 35, had the second-longest average time to throw in the NFL last season. Only Fields held the ball longer on average. The first hurdle toward the Vikings making this happen would be O'Connell thinking he could work effectively with this type of quarterback.
Then there's the question of the Vikings locker room. Minnesota's players have been adamant that they want Cousins back. Replacing Cousins with someone as polarizing as Wilson might affect the chemistry of an organization that spent the past two years creating a positive vibe among its players.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
5 Potential Kirko Replacements.
I'd say the odds are high the starter in September could come from these lists...
DARNOLD:
This is the name that comes up most in discussions with people within the industry.
Darnold, 26, wouldn’t break the bank. Vikings quarterbacks coach Josh McCown developed a relationship with him in New York. Adofo-Mensah and the front office are close with executives in San Francisco, which signed Darnold last offseason. Multiple factors make this a feasible move, but don’t get it twisted: Darnold will be available at a palatable cost for several reasons…
Signing Darnold to an inexpensive deal would give the Vikings more money to allocate to the defense. The move would also serve as a fascinating litmus test to see whether O’Connell’s system and the Vikings’ offensive talent could prop up a quarterback.
Tannehill:
One of the central questions hovering over the Vikings’ future at quarterback is this: Do Adofo-Mensah and O’Connell have time?
Tannehill’s ceiling might be as low as any name on this list, but he is battle-tested. He has started 119 NFL games over the past decade. The 35-year-old is fairly accurate, and he has played in systems built around the play-action passing game. Still, while Cousins ranks 13th among the 46 qualified quarterbacks in expected points added in third-and-long situations, Tannehill ranks 34th.
Had the Washington Commanders made Brissett available at the 2023 trade deadline, the Vikings likely would have shown an interest. Brissett doesn’t bring many explosive characteristics to the table, but among the 46 quarterbacks who have thrown 800 passes since 2017, his interception rate per pass attempt is lower than all but Aaron Rodgers’ and Drew Brees’.
Brissett is like Tannehill in that he’d be a serviceable veteran option who, alongside McCown, would likely be a great mentor to a rookie signal caller.
FIELDS:
Fields is more of an unknown than the other names on this list, but his athletic traits might make him the most intriguing.
The 25-year-old has started 38 games as a pro. Sorting by passing statistics, Fields’ EPA per dropback is 45th among 46 qualified quarterbacks, ahead of only Zach Wilson. In other words, doubts abound.
WILSON:
O'Connell built his offense around rhythm and timing. A quarterback's drop is tied to the receiver's routes. The quarterback must hit his back foot, process quickly and deliver the football accurately.Wilson, 35, had the second-longest average time to throw in the NFL last season. Only Fields held the ball longer on average. The first hurdle toward the Vikings making this happen would be O'Connell thinking he could work effectively with this type of quarterback.
Then there's the question of the Vikings locker room. Minnesota's players have been adamant that they want Cousins back. Replacing Cousins with someone as polarizing as Wilson might affect the chemistry of an organization that spent the past two years creating a positive vibe among its players.
I’ll admit part of me is ready for change, just for changes sake. Kirk has been solid but for whatever reason the results haven’t been there so I’m ready to try something new.
… And then the other part of me reads lists like this lol. 
Of that list, Darnold is the only one I would consider and I can't believe I just typed that. He does have some upside though. However, it better be a signing that includes a highly picked QB. I've also read where Flacco is on their radar. He was surprisingly good in the 5 games he played last season.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ purplefaithful said:
5 Potential Kirko Replacements.
I'd say the odds are high the starter in September could come from these lists...
DARNOLD:
This is the name that comes up most in discussions with people within the industry.
Darnold, 26, wouldn’t break the bank. Vikings quarterbacks coach Josh McCown developed a relationship with him in New York. Adofo-Mensah and the front office are close with executives in San Francisco, which signed Darnold last offseason. Multiple factors make this a feasible move, but don’t get it twisted: Darnold will be available at a palatable cost for several reasons…
Signing Darnold to an inexpensive deal would give the Vikings more money to allocate to the defense. The move would also serve as a fascinating litmus test to see whether O’Connell’s system and the Vikings’ offensive talent could prop up a quarterback.
Tannehill:
One of the central questions hovering over the Vikings’ future at quarterback is this: Do Adofo-Mensah and O’Connell have time?
Tannehill’s ceiling might be as low as any name on this list, but he is battle-tested. He has started 119 NFL games over the past decade. The 35-year-old is fairly accurate, and he has played in systems built around the play-action passing game. Still, while Cousins ranks 13th among the 46 qualified quarterbacks in expected points added in third-and-long situations, Tannehill ranks 34th.
Had the Washington Commanders made Brissett available at the 2023 trade deadline, the Vikings likely would have shown an interest. Brissett doesn’t bring many explosive characteristics to the table, but among the 46 quarterbacks who have thrown 800 passes since 2017, his interception rate per pass attempt is lower than all but Aaron Rodgers’ and Drew Brees’.
Brissett is like Tannehill in that he’d be a serviceable veteran option who, alongside McCown, would likely be a great mentor to a rookie signal caller.
FIELDS:
Fields is more of an unknown than the other names on this list, but his athletic traits might make him the most intriguing.
The 25-year-old has started 38 games as a pro. Sorting by passing statistics, Fields’ EPA per dropback is 45th among 46 qualified quarterbacks, ahead of only Zach Wilson. In other words, doubts abound.
WILSON:
O'Connell built his offense around rhythm and timing. A quarterback's drop is tied to the receiver's routes. The quarterback must hit his back foot, process quickly and deliver the football accurately.Wilson, 35, had the second-longest average time to throw in the NFL last season. Only Fields held the ball longer on average. The first hurdle toward the Vikings making this happen would be O'Connell thinking he could work effectively with this type of quarterback.
Then there's the question of the Vikings locker room. Minnesota's players have been adamant that they want Cousins back. Replacing Cousins with someone as polarizing as Wilson might affect the chemistry of an organization that spent the past two years creating a positive vibe among its players.
I’ll admit part of me is ready for change, just for changes sake. Kirk has been solid but for whatever reason the results haven’t been there so I’m ready to try something new.
… And then the other part of me reads lists like this lol.
It's not pretty and it doesn't smell good either, does it?
The only way this is remotely palatable (for me anyhow) is if there is a highly touted rook in the wings...
![[Image: iStock-182238796-grassgreener-1024x701-1.jpg]](https://www.theta-point.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/iStock-182238796-grassgreener-1024x701-1.jpg)
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
5 Potential Kirko Replacements.
I'd say the odds are high the starter in September could come from these lists...
DARNOLD:
This is the name that comes up most in discussions with people within the industry.
Darnold, 26, wouldn’t break the bank. Vikings quarterbacks coach Josh McCown developed a relationship with him in New York. Adofo-Mensah and the front office are close with executives in San Francisco, which signed Darnold last offseason. Multiple factors make this a feasible move, but don’t get it twisted: Darnold will be available at a palatable cost for several reasons…
Signing Darnold to an inexpensive deal would give the Vikings more money to allocate to the defense. The move would also serve as a fascinating litmus test to see whether O’Connell’s system and the Vikings’ offensive talent could prop up a quarterback.
Tannehill:
One of the central questions hovering over the Vikings’ future at quarterback is this: Do Adofo-Mensah and O’Connell have time?
Tannehill’s ceiling might be as low as any name on this list, but he is battle-tested. He has started 119 NFL games over the past decade. The 35-year-old is fairly accurate, and he has played in systems built around the play-action passing game. Still, while Cousins ranks 13th among the 46 qualified quarterbacks in expected points added in third-and-long situations, Tannehill ranks 34th.
Had the Washington Commanders made Brissett available at the 2023 trade deadline, the Vikings likely would have shown an interest. Brissett doesn’t bring many explosive characteristics to the table, but among the 46 quarterbacks who have thrown 800 passes since 2017, his interception rate per pass attempt is lower than all but Aaron Rodgers’ and Drew Brees’.
Brissett is like Tannehill in that he’d be a serviceable veteran option who, alongside McCown, would likely be a great mentor to a rookie signal caller.
FIELDS:
Fields is more of an unknown than the other names on this list, but his athletic traits might make him the most intriguing.
The 25-year-old has started 38 games as a pro. Sorting by passing statistics, Fields’ EPA per dropback is 45th among 46 qualified quarterbacks, ahead of only Zach Wilson. In other words, doubts abound.
WILSON:
O'Connell built his offense around rhythm and timing. A quarterback's drop is tied to the receiver's routes. The quarterback must hit his back foot, process quickly and deliver the football accurately.Wilson, 35, had the second-longest average time to throw in the NFL last season. Only Fields held the ball longer on average. The first hurdle toward the Vikings making this happen would be O'Connell thinking he could work effectively with this type of quarterback.
Then there's the question of the Vikings locker room. Minnesota's players have been adamant that they want Cousins back. Replacing Cousins with someone as polarizing as Wilson might affect the chemistry of an organization that spent the past two years creating a positive vibe among its players.
Outside of Fields, there is not one name on this list worth watching a Vikings game for. If THIS is the plan for next year…. burn it all to the ground and prepare to play to empty seats
Kirk has little if any incentive to sign anything sooner with us than 1 minute prior to the official free agency period, but man this is becoming a sweat, isn’t it?
We have today, tomorrow, and Tuesday, right?
I really wish there’d be some movement soon so KAM can shift his focus to Hunter, but that’s looking more and more like a pipe dream by the hour.
Nothing’s ever easy with this team!
Per Dianna Russini, the Vikings expect to know by tonight if Cousins intends on testing free agency or not.
I can only assume this means he has by tonight to accept the offer we've made him or decline it and test free agency. I just don't see if he declines why we would increase the offer and I think if he hits free agency we have to assume he is gone unless he comes crawling back to take our offer, which I don't see happening.
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