Quote: @medaille said:
The problem with wanting to get the #1 TE contract is that
the franchise tag is cheaper than your average yearly cost. I don’t think it’s a huge risk for the Vikings
to string this along for a little while.
We should get a deal done at some point, but it’s not hugely dire if he
holds out for some practices. It's also not horrible if we tag him and get 2.5 years out of him for good but not massive money.
We have seen how the franchise tag works, it's supposed to be an option to give teams and the player time to work out an extension. Hock may play on the tag this year, but it'll get ugly if we try to tag him twice. You're basically telling the guy he's not someone your willing to commit money to... either he is or he isn't. This sounds good in theory but it's just a way to alienate a good player and won't sit well with other players on the team.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ medaille said:
The problem with wanting to get the #1 TE contract is that
the franchise tag is cheaper than your average yearly cost. I don’t think it’s a huge risk for the Vikings
to string this along for a little while.
We should get a deal done at some point, but it’s not hugely dire if he
holds out for some practices. It's also not horrible if we tag him and get 2.5 years out of him for good but not massive money.
We have seen how the franchise tag works, it's supposed to be an option to give teams and the player time to work out an extension. Hock may play on the tag this year, but it'll get ugly if we try to tag him twice. You're basically telling the guy he's not someone your willing to commit money to... either he is or he isn't. This sounds good in theory but it's just a way to alienate a good player and won't sit well with other players on the team.
Iirc he's not on a tag this year, this is still his rookie contract through this season, so next year would be his first tagged season if it were to come to that.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Kittle and Kelce both got signed to extensions in 2020. It shouldn’t be a surprise if other TEs start
getting bigger contracts than them. It’s
been this way for a while now as the cap is growing exponentially.
Exactly. A top 5 player at his position is almost always going to reset the market...temporarily. Not because he's necessarily better than the other 4, but simply because he was the latest to sign a new contract.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ wiviking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
So Hock needs a new contract.....and JJ.....and Darrisaw soon. Where's the cap room coming from?
Which again, begs the question...we're we wise to make that trade considering he wants to reset the TE contract market (which we knew going in) or were we better off keeping the pick and taking advantage of an obscenely deep TE group in this last draft? The trade didn't get us any closer to getting to a Super Bowl last season and now we are almost forced to tie up huge money at the TE position. I'm not so sure that's the best way to build a roster.
I'm just not buying the whole, he wants to reset the TE contract market, thing. He was rescued from the circus in Detroit mid-season. Made the playoffs for the first time. Gets fed the ball from a superior quarterback. And, gets to play in the best stadium in the league. I have serious doubts that the story has any truth to it.
He may not reset the market, but contracts are going up everywhere (besides RB) and he will want to be paid top 2 or 3 money at the position, and he is deserving of it. The question is were/are the Vikings in position to do that? How many groundbreaking contracts can we give out between JJ, Darrisaw, and our unsettled long term QB issue?
TJ is a great player, there's no doubting that, but I still contend we might have been better off NOT making the trade and drafting one of these TE's and having them on a rookie contract while we settle these other contracts and cap allocation issues.
Rookie TEs rarely make an impact. Travis Kelce had 67 receptions for 862 yards with 5 TDs his rookie year. TJH had 32/367/2.
Sure, we could've drafted Dalton Kincaid but it would've cost us Addison.
Quote: @Knucklehead said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ wiviking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
So Hock needs a new contract.....and JJ.....and Darrisaw soon. Where's the cap room coming from?
Which again, begs the question...we're we wise to make that trade considering he wants to reset the TE contract market (which we knew going in) or were we better off keeping the pick and taking advantage of an obscenely deep TE group in this last draft? The trade didn't get us any closer to getting to a Super Bowl last season and now we are almost forced to tie up huge money at the TE position. I'm not so sure that's the best way to build a roster.
I'm just not buying the whole, he wants to reset the TE contract market, thing. He was rescued from the circus in Detroit mid-season. Made the playoffs for the first time. Gets fed the ball from a superior quarterback. And, gets to play in the best stadium in the league. I have serious doubts that the story has any truth to it.
He may not reset the market, but contracts are going up everywhere (besides RB) and he will want to be paid top 2 or 3 money at the position, and he is deserving of it. The question is were/are the Vikings in position to do that? How many groundbreaking contracts can we give out between JJ, Darrisaw, and our unsettled long term QB issue?
TJ is a great player, there's no doubting that, but I still contend we might have been better off NOT making the trade and drafting one of these TE's and having them on a rookie contract while we settle these other contracts and cap allocation issues.
Rookie TEs rarely make an impact. Travis Kelce had 67 receptions for 862 yards with 5 TDs his rookie year. TJH had 32/367/2.
Sure, we could've drafted Dalton Kincaid but it would've cost us Addison.
Not necessarily. There were quality prospects TE through the 3rd round and if we don't make the trade we could have used our second round pick to draft a TE or move up. If the choice was between acquiring Hockenson for a second round pick and having to make him the highest paid TE in the league, or for example drafting Michael Mayer and having him on a rookie contract for four years while we sort out those other contract issues I mentioned...the latter might have been the better option.
There are only so many pieces of the pie to go around. Kelce is a great example. The Chiefs can afford to pay him top dollar because they don't have a Justin Jefferson at WR who will be one of the highest paid players in the league regardless of position. The Chiefs traded Tyreek Hill for this very reason. It's about money allocation and do you want to have a ton of cap tied up at the TE position when we don't have a QBOTF yet and we need upgrades along both lines.
https://sidelionreport.com/posts/recent-...nson-trade
Lions already claiming "victory" in Hockenson trade with Vikings for the same reasons I was saying it might have been a smarter play for the Vikings to sit tight and draft a guy in a historically deep TE draft crop..
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
https://sidelionreport.com/posts/recent-...nson-trade
Lions already claiming "victory" in Hockenson trade with Vikings for the same reasons I was saying it might have been a smarter play for the Vikings to sit tight and draft a guy in a historically deep TE draft crop..
Fully evaluating the "winner" and "loser" from an NFL trade with players and draft picks in it would usually take longer. Like after said draft picks become players, then said players have played some meaningful games. But the Hockenson deal can already be called as a win for the Lions.
What the hell kind of conclusion is that? We have an all pro TE that we will have to pay FMV and the Lions have two unknown draft picks, where is the win?
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
https://sidelionreport.com/posts/recent-...nson-trade
Lions already claiming "victory" in Hockenson trade with Vikings for the same reasons I was saying it might have been a smarter play for the Vikings to sit tight and draft a guy in a historically deep TE draft crop..
Fully evaluating the "winner" and "loser" from an NFL trade with players and draft picks in it would usually take longer. Like after said draft picks become players, then said players have played some meaningful games. But the Hockenson deal can already be called as a win for the Lions.
What the hell kind of conclusion is that? We have an all pro TE that we will have to pay FMV and the Lions have two unknown draft picks, where is the win?
The win would be they didn't value him at the cost of paying him top 2 or 3 money, and we're able to parlay him into draft picks and drafted Sam LaPorta in the second round, who has reportedly been very impressive in camp, and have him on a rookie contract for the next four years.
I think the Vikings made the trade in an attempt to get over the hump last year and compete for the Super Bowl. It was a gamble that didn't pay off and now we are going to have to pay him big money....on top of trying to find money to pay Jefferson a record contract and eventually Darrisaw. Never mind the fact that we have no long term answer at QB unless we extend Kirk, which will be another big money contract. There's only so much pie to go around.
Earache? Earache, my eye!
This shit better get worked out before I take Hock in the second round of my FF drafts.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ minny65 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
https://sidelionreport.com/posts/recent-...nson-trade
Lions already claiming "victory" in Hockenson trade with Vikings for the same reasons I was saying it might have been a smarter play for the Vikings to sit tight and draft a guy in a historically deep TE draft crop..
Fully evaluating the "winner" and "loser" from an NFL trade with players and draft picks in it would usually take longer. Like after said draft picks become players, then said players have played some meaningful games. But the Hockenson deal can already be called as a win for the Lions.
What the hell kind of conclusion is that? We have an all pro TE that we will have to pay FMV and the Lions have two unknown draft picks, where is the win?
The win would be they didn't value him at the cost of paying him top 2 or 3 money, and we're able to parlay him into draft picks and drafted Sam LaPorta in the second round, who has reportedly been very impressive in camp, and have him on a rookie contract for the next four years.
I think the Vikings made the trade in an attempt to get over the hump last year and compete for the Super Bowl. It was a gamble that didn't pay off and now we are going to have to pay him big money....on top of trying to find money to pay Jefferson a record contract and eventually Darrisaw. Never mind the fact that we have no long term answer at QB unless we extend Kirk, which will be another big money contract. There's only so much pie to go around.
The way things are shaping up, we will have him this season and next under the Franchise Tag before we let him walk in 2025. He and his agent are delusional for thinking they can reset the TE market for a one dimensional pass catching Tight End. Oliver actually looks a lot more like a complete player at only $7 Million, Mundt is a fantastic number 2, and I hope they figure out a way to keep Muse who is shaping up to be a great receiving threat with some run after the catch abilities. If the Vikings season goes sideways, I suspect they will try to trade him at the deadline. His agent is well aware that the best chance to get the most money out of the Vikings was to get the deal done now before JJ's extension which is why they tried the soft holdout strategy, but all reports indicate they are not even close on money so unless his number comes down closer to $13 Million, I don't see it happening.
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