What the fuck

[Guest]

@purplefaithful said:

@MaroonBells said:

@TBro said:
As good as Cousins played most of the game, he will be remembered by a Checkdown Pass that had no chance for a first down. Game over. Baffling. 

Unfortunately that's true. Before that throw I kept thinking how good Kirk had been all day. He was really the only reason we were in this game. He played very well. 

I think I would've preferred to see a prayer downfield to at least give someone a chance, but throwing short of the sticks and getting an RAC conversion is something we've done--and teams have done against us--many many times this year. No one every complains when it works. 

Of course, the biggest difference is that when we do it, there's typically a defender there to make it a contest. When it's done against us, Eric Kendricks is about 10 yards away. 

I listened to snippets fro both KOC and KC after the game...He had to toss that fast or it was going to be a sack. But yah, I would rather have seen a prayer downfield, even that situation. 

I would have rather seen the D hold the Gmen to a punt now and then too and not put us in that situation at all, 

Yeah, bad decision. In fact one he used to do often on third and long. It does look like he may have been sacked if he held the ball much longer. But a 2 yard pass to a guy that's covered on 4th down results in the same thing. Almost no chance for success.
How about they get rid of Bradbury so he has time to throw downfield?
Like Jimmy says, the defense is putrid and needs work, but the offense is also in need of some upgrades.
Staying with this O-line will not result in a championship team. Each game the Vikings lost this year, the O-line was manhandled and Cousins had little time.
Rebuilding both lines first would go a long ways toward long term success. It will take some time, but the time has come to shed the Spielman belief that quickness trumps strength on the lines. Time to stop getting pushed around!

[Guest]

@purplefaithful said:

@MaroonBells said:

@TBro said:
As good as Cousins played most of the game, he will be remembered by a Checkdown Pass that had no chance for a first down. Game over. Baffling. 

Unfortunately that's true. Before that throw I kept thinking how good Kirk had been all day. He was really the only reason we were in this game. He played very well. 

I think I would've preferred to see a prayer downfield to at least give someone a chance, but throwing short of the sticks and getting an RAC conversion is something we've done--and teams have done against us--many many times this year. No one every complains when it works. 

Of course, the biggest difference is that when we do it, there's typically a defender there to make it a contest. When it's done against us, Eric Kendricks is about 10 yards away. 

I listened to snippets fro both KOC and KC after the game...He had to toss that fast or it was going to be a sack. But yah, I would rather have seen a prayer downfield, even that situation. 

I would have rather seen the D hold the Gmen to a punt now and then too and not put us in that situation at all, 

It was as bad a defensive performance as we've seen all year, coming just a couple days after Donatell promising that fans will "like the way we play." Why? It was no different. ZERO difference: Minimal pressure, deep secondary mostly doing it's job, but 5-10 yard crossers open for days. 

Defense plays just league average and we win that game by 10. Best part about losing early is that we might have a shot at one of the hotter DC candidates. 

[Guest]

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:

@MaroonBells said:

@TBro said:
As good as Cousins played most of the game, he will be remembered by a Checkdown Pass that had no chance for a first down. Game over. Baffling. 

Unfortunately that's true. Before that throw I kept thinking how good Kirk had been all day. He was really the only reason we were in this game. He played very well. 

I think I would've preferred to see a prayer downfield to at least give someone a chance, but throwing short of the sticks and getting an RAC conversion is something we've done--and teams have done against us--many many times this year. No one every complains when it works. 

Of course, the biggest difference is that when we do it, there's typically a defender there to make it a contest. When it's done against us, Eric Kendricks is about 10 yards away. 

I listened to snippets fro both KOC and KC after the game...He had to toss that fast or it was going to be a sack. But yah, I would rather have seen a prayer downfield, even that situation. 

I would have rather seen the D hold the Gmen to a punt now and then too and not put us in that situation at all, 

or maybe he could have used his legs a bit to extend the play and give himself another tic or two for things to develop?  

He wont ever do that with the consistency most of us would like. We saw more this year than ever, but...

I suspect IOL got it handed to themselves from Lawrence (again) in that situation. KC wouldnt have had a prayer with the pressure up the gut. MAYBE Hurts, Allen or Mahomes. 

Here's a thought, maybe call a roll-out instead of straight drop back??? I dont recall many of those this season or screen passes. 

That was such a big part of our offense last year. And to watch Brock Purdy do it a half dozen times in the same basic offense, it made me wonder why we stopped. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:

@MaroonBells said:

@TBro said:
As good as Cousins played most of the game, he will be remembered by a Checkdown Pass that had no chance for a first down. Game over. Baffling. 

Unfortunately that's true. Before that throw I kept thinking how good Kirk had been all day. He was really the only reason we were in this game. He played very well. 

I think I would've preferred to see a prayer downfield to at least give someone a chance, but throwing short of the sticks and getting an RAC conversion is something we've done--and teams have done against us--many many times this year. No one every complains when it works. 

Of course, the biggest difference is that when we do it, there's typically a defender there to make it a contest. When it's done against us, Eric Kendricks is about 10 yards away. 

I listened to snippets fro both KOC and KC after the game...He had to toss that fast or it was going to be a sack. But yah, I would rather have seen a prayer downfield, even that situation. 

I would have rather seen the D hold the Gmen to a punt now and then too and not put us in that situation at all, 

or maybe he could have used his legs a bit to extend the play and give himself another tic or two for things to develop?  

He wont ever do that with the consistency most of us would like. We saw more this year than ever, but...

I suspect IOL got it handed to themselves from Lawrence (again) in that situation. KC wouldnt have had a prayer with the pressure up the gut. MAYBE Hurts, Allen or Mahomes. 

Here's a thought, maybe call a roll-out instead of straight drop back??? I dont recall many of those this season or screen passes. 

That was such a big part of our offense last year. And to watch Brock Purdy do it a half dozen times in the same basic offense, it made me wonder why we stopped. 

Goff/Stafford rarely do rollouts for LAR either. None of the three—including Cousins— are very mobile so I’m not sure if McVay and KO are just playing to “strengths” (re: masking weakness) or if that’s just the system.

But yeah. Offense needs tweaking. Defense on the other hand needs a significant teardown and I’m not sure where the money or picks will come from. Currently we don’t have much of either and if you start losing guys like Hunter or Smith or Smith who are all making big money that’s great, we saved some money. But who is out there and available to replace them? And will they be an improvement? Sadly we’re left with a lot of giant question marks after what in my opinion was a good season. 

[Guest]

Isnt it interesting how being really good at offense and situational football got em to what 12 wins? In spite of a D reminiscent of Les Frasier or Les Steckels?

Dont interpret that as I am satisfied with 1 and done in playoffs, but its a unicorn of a year in the # of wins and how they got em

[Guest]

@pattersaur said:

@MaroonBells said:

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:

@MaroonBells said:

@TBro said:
As good as Cousins played most of the game, he will be remembered by a Checkdown Pass that had no chance for a first down. Game over. Baffling. 

Unfortunately that's true. Before that throw I kept thinking how good Kirk had been all day. He was really the only reason we were in this game. He played very well. 

I think I would've preferred to see a prayer downfield to at least give someone a chance, but throwing short of the sticks and getting an RAC conversion is something we've done--and teams have done against us--many many times this year. No one every complains when it works. 

Of course, the biggest difference is that when we do it, there's typically a defender there to make it a contest. When it's done against us, Eric Kendricks is about 10 yards away. 

I listened to snippets fro both KOC and KC after the game...He had to toss that fast or it was going to be a sack. But yah, I would rather have seen a prayer downfield, even that situation. 

I would have rather seen the D hold the Gmen to a punt now and then too and not put us in that situation at all, 

or maybe he could have used his legs a bit to extend the play and give himself another tic or two for things to develop?  

He wont ever do that with the consistency most of us would like. We saw more this year than ever, but...

I suspect IOL got it handed to themselves from Lawrence (again) in that situation. KC wouldnt have had a prayer with the pressure up the gut. MAYBE Hurts, Allen or Mahomes. 

Here's a thought, maybe call a roll-out instead of straight drop back??? I dont recall many of those this season or screen passes. 

That was such a big part of our offense last year. And to watch Brock Purdy do it a half dozen times in the same basic offense, it made me wonder why we stopped. 

Goff/Stafford rarely do rollouts for LAR either. None of the three—including Cousins— are very mobile so I’m not sure if McVay and KO are just playing to “strengths” (re: masking weakness) or if that’s just the system.

But yeah. Offense needs tweaking. Defense on the other hand needs a significant teardown and I’m not sure where the money or picks will come from. Currently we don’t have much of either and if you start losing guys like Hunter or Smith or Smith who are all making big money that’s great, we saved some money. But who is out there and available to replace them? And will they be an improvement? Sadly we’re left with a lot of giant question marks after what in my opinion was a good season. 

Z maybe. His dead cap hit is minimal. But not Hunter.

I think the cap space comes from at least three of the following four: Thielen, Kendricks, Cook and Harry. I think because of Cine's injury, they may try to restructure Harry in order to keep him, but those first three are very likely gone IMO...and there's a lot of savings there. 

[Guest]

Kevin O'Connell: Failed fourth-down play call wasn't intended for T.J. HockensonAll three Vikings wide receivers — Jefferson, Adam Thielen and K.J. Osborn — ran routes past the first-down markers, but Kirk Cousins faced pressure and threw short to Hockenson.

Facing the final fourth down in the Vikings season, the safest bet in the world seemed to be throwing the ball to superstar receiver Justin Jefferson.
But Kirk Cousins threw short of the first-down marker to tight end T.J. Hockenson, who was abruptly brought down along with the 2022 season in the Vikings' 31-24 NFC wild-card playoff loss to the Giants on Sunday afternoon.
All three Vikings wide receivers — Jefferson, Adam Thielen and K.J. Osborn — ran routes past the markers, but Cousins faced interior pressure and checked down to Hockenson, who caught the pass needing about 6 more yards to convert.
Was Hockenson even expecting the pass?
"I'm not going to speak on any of that," he said. "But in my head I need to break that and get us that first."
O'Connell said the fourth-down call was not intended for Hockenson, who finished with 10 catches and 129 yards. The coach added that he could've directed Cousins more on pushing the ball downfield but that he wants Cousins to "play free."
"You're not going to call a primary concept where somebody's short of the sticks to gain, especially on fourth down," O'Connell said.
The Vikings' two-minute offense has helped them win many games, including the Dec. 24 win over the Giants in which two Jefferson catches set up kicker Greg Joseph's game-winning, 61-yard field goal.
But Jefferson's first NFL playoff game ended with seven catches for 47 yards, nearly all of it coming in the first half. He had four catches for 30 yards on the Vikings' opening drive. He had one catch on three targets for 4 yards in the entire second half.
The NFL's receptions and receiving yards leader also saw the most targets (184) in the league during the regular season. But Sunday, Cousins and Jefferson couldn't connect when needed most. Cousins said he really lamented the snap before the final play: a third-down incompletion to Osborn in which Cousins said the ball needed to be placed farther in front of Osborn.
On both plays — the Vikings' last third and fourth downs — the Giants defense ran a bracket-type coverage on Jefferson. New York effectively double teamed him with cornerback Adoree' Jackson pressing at the line of scrimmage and bailing to cover one side of Jefferson while a safety dropped in to cover the other side.
It was a similar style of physical man-to-man coverage Jefferson has faced in his quietest outings, including the one-catch, 15-yard day at Lambeau Field on Jan. 1.
"They did what everybody else does," Jefferson said. "It's not a shocker."
Jefferson, the first-team All-Pro pick who finished the regular season with a league-leading 128 catches for 1,809 yards, said the defensive attention in his third season reached new heights.
"I got to learn that's my life now," Jefferson said. "I got to worry about those doubles and triple teams from now on, but I feel like [my teammates] did a tremendous job doing what they needed to do when the ball was thrown to them."
Jefferson kept a positive outlook after the loss when asked about O'Connell's first year.
"Coming from that Rams type of offense with Coop[er Kupp], and him transferring that to us is definitely the reason I've had so many yards, catches," Jefferson said. "But it's more than just him: The O-line has been doing a great job all year, Kirk has been doing a great job looking for me, especially in those 50/50 moments."
The Vikings offense will likely look different next year with players like center Garrett Bradbury and running back Alexander Mattison headed for free agency.
"Adds to the frustration, adds to the disappointment because we did feel we had a team that could go a long ways," Thielen said. "Obviously, you can think what you want, but you got to go prove it on Sundays. We didn't do that."
https://www.startribune.com/justin-jefferson-finishes-season-with-a-quiet-game-minnesota-vikings-t-j-hockenson-kirk-cousins/600243766/

[Guest]

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:

@MaroonBells said:

@TBro said:
As good as Cousins played most of the game, he will be remembered by a Checkdown Pass that had no chance for a first down. Game over. Baffling. 

Unfortunately that's true. Before that throw I kept thinking how good Kirk had been all day. He was really the only reason we were in this game. He played very well. 

I think I would've preferred to see a prayer downfield to at least give someone a chance, but throwing short of the sticks and getting an RAC conversion is something we've done--and teams have done against us--many many times this year. No one every complains when it works. 

Of course, the biggest difference is that when we do it, there's typically a defender there to make it a contest. When it's done against us, Eric Kendricks is about 10 yards away. 

I listened to snippets fro both KOC and KC after the game...He had to toss that fast or it was going to be a sack. But yah, I would rather have seen a prayer downfield, even that situation. 

I would have rather seen the D hold the Gmen to a punt now and then too and not put us in that situation at all, 

or maybe he could have used his legs a bit to extend the play and give himself another tic or two for things to develop?  

He wont ever do that with the consistency most of us would like. We saw more this year than ever, but...

I suspect IOL got it handed to themselves from Lawrence (again) in that situation. KC wouldnt have had a prayer with the pressure up the gut. MAYBE Hurts, Allen or Mahomes. 

Here's a thought, maybe call a roll-out instead of straight drop back??? I dont recall many of those this season or screen passes. 

KC had 4 games of 10 yards or more rushing this year,  3 of 20 or more,  he totaled less than 100 yards on the season,  so the bulk of his rushing yards came in 4 games,  he had 5 games where he didnt attempt 1 rush.  31 total attempts on the season, ( less than 2 per game)  I dont want to ever see my QB be my primary or even secondary rushing attacker,  but there is no reason that he cant see 7 to 10 free yards and not take it and get down or out of bounds.  doing that 2 or 3 times a game steals first downs that extend drives that takes time away from opposing teams and give our D time to try and sort their shit out.   if he could take that free 10 yards ( like every QB does against our D ) when its there about 3 or 4 times a game,  I bet his hits and sack numbers drop significantly as he becomes more unpredictable and that also keeps LBs more honest and opens up more intermediate routes quicker as the LBs arent dropping into those passing lanes.

If KC wont do it, then find somebody who will.  same with rolling out when he senses pressure instead of trying to stand there and take the hit and hoping something comes open before getting hammered.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:

@MaroonBells said:

@TBro said:
As good as Cousins played most of the game, he will be remembered by a Checkdown Pass that had no chance for a first down. Game over. Baffling. 

Unfortunately that's true. Before that throw I kept thinking how good Kirk had been all day. He was really the only reason we were in this game. He played very well. 

I think I would've preferred to see a prayer downfield to at least give someone a chance, but throwing short of the sticks and getting an RAC conversion is something we've done--and teams have done against us--many many times this year. No one every complains when it works. 

Of course, the biggest difference is that when we do it, there's typically a defender there to make it a contest. When it's done against us, Eric Kendricks is about 10 yards away. 

I listened to snippets fro both KOC and KC after the game...He had to toss that fast or it was going to be a sack. But yah, I would rather have seen a prayer downfield, even that situation. 

I would have rather seen the D hold the Gmen to a punt now and then too and not put us in that situation at all, 

or maybe he could have used his legs a bit to extend the play and give himself another tic or two for things to develop?  

He wont ever do that with the consistency most of us would like. We saw more this year than ever, but...

I suspect IOL got it handed to themselves from Lawrence (again) in that situation. KC wouldnt have had a prayer with the pressure up the gut. MAYBE Hurts, Allen or Mahomes. 

Here's a thought, maybe call a roll-out instead of straight drop back??? I dont recall many of those this season or screen passes. 

KC had 4 games of 10 yards or more rushing this year,  3 of 20 or more,  he totaled less than 100 yards on the season,  so the bulk of his rushing yards came in 4 games,  he had 5 games where he didnt attempt 1 rush.  31 total attempts on the season, ( less than 2 per game)  I dont want to ever see my QB be my primary or even secondary rushing attacker,  but there is no reason that he cant see 7 to 10 free yards and not take it and get down or out of bounds.  doing that 2 or 3 times a game steals first downs that extend drives that takes time away from opposing teams and give our D time to try and sort their shit out.   if he could take that free 10 yards ( like every QB does against our D ) when its there about 3 or 4 times a game,  I bet his hits and sack numbers drop significantly as he becomes more unpredictable and that also keeps LBs more honest and opens up more intermediate routes quicker as the LBs arent dropping into those passing lanes.

If KC wont do it, then find somebody who will.  same with rolling out when he senses pressure instead of trying to stand there and take the hit and hoping something comes open before getting hammered.

That's all well and good, but if we're talking about the last play, there were no lanes or escape routes. Kirk had to get rid of it. JJ was in triple coverage KJ was in tight coverage and not looking for the ball, and I don't think he could see Theilen who was also in tight coverage. Why TJ didn't take his route another 4 yds. who knows, but Cousins wouldn't have had time for the route to develop. 

It was a crap play that the Giants had played perfectly. End of story.

[Guest]

@mgobluevikes said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:

@MaroonBells said:

@TBro said:
As good as Cousins played most of the game, he will be remembered by a Checkdown Pass that had no chance for a first down. Game over. Baffling. 

Unfortunately that's true. Before that throw I kept thinking how good Kirk had been all day. He was really the only reason we were in this game. He played very well. 

I think I would've preferred to see a prayer downfield to at least give someone a chance, but throwing short of the sticks and getting an RAC conversion is something we've done--and teams have done against us--many many times this year. No one every complains when it works. 

Of course, the biggest difference is that when we do it, there's typically a defender there to make it a contest. When it's done against us, Eric Kendricks is about 10 yards away. 

I listened to snippets fro both KOC and KC after the game...He had to toss that fast or it was going to be a sack. But yah, I would rather have seen a prayer downfield, even that situation. 

I would have rather seen the D hold the Gmen to a punt now and then too and not put us in that situation at all, 

or maybe he could have used his legs a bit to extend the play and give himself another tic or two for things to develop?  

He wont ever do that with the consistency most of us would like. We saw more this year than ever, but...

I suspect IOL got it handed to themselves from Lawrence (again) in that situation. KC wouldnt have had a prayer with the pressure up the gut. MAYBE Hurts, Allen or Mahomes. 

Here's a thought, maybe call a roll-out instead of straight drop back??? I dont recall many of those this season or screen passes. 

KC had 4 games of 10 yards or more rushing this year,  3 of 20 or more,  he totaled less than 100 yards on the season,  so the bulk of his rushing yards came in 4 games,  he had 5 games where he didnt attempt 1 rush.  31 total attempts on the season, ( less than 2 per game)  I dont want to ever see my QB be my primary or even secondary rushing attacker,  but there is no reason that he cant see 7 to 10 free yards and not take it and get down or out of bounds.  doing that 2 or 3 times a game steals first downs that extend drives that takes time away from opposing teams and give our D time to try and sort their shit out.   if he could take that free 10 yards ( like every QB does against our D ) when its there about 3 or 4 times a game,  I bet his hits and sack numbers drop significantly as he becomes more unpredictable and that also keeps LBs more honest and opens up more intermediate routes quicker as the LBs arent dropping into those passing lanes.

If KC wont do it, then find somebody who will.  same with rolling out when he senses pressure instead of trying to stand there and take the hit and hoping something comes open before getting hammered.

That's all well and good, but if we're talking about the last play, there were no lanes or escape routes. Kirk had to get rid of it. JJ was in triple coverage KJ was in tight coverage and not looking for the ball, and I don't think he could see Theilen who was also in tight coverage. Why TJ didn't take his route another 4 yds. who knows, but Cousins wouldn't have had time for the route to develop. 

It was a crap play that the Giants had played perfectly. End of story.

His lack of mobility makes him an easy guy to rush,  pretty easy to play it perfectly when you always know exactly where the QB will be standing on almost every pass plays.  He rarely steps up, he rarely slides, and he rarely makes teams pay for not maintaining their rush lane integrity.  This isn't about one play,  its about every play for the last 10 years that makes him so easy for teams to play perfectly.  If he had a tiny bit of mobility to go with his accuracy and other abilities,   he would be a SB contending QB,  and very likely be game planning for the niners tonight.  No the loss is not kirks fault,  but he could be doing more to help the team and play up to his money. 

Look at what has killed our defenses the last 10 years,   look at what Jones did,  look at what Brady and Prescott are doing tonight.   You don't have to run around like an idiot to keep defenses honest,  you just have to make them unsure. Of course this is as much on KOC as it is Kirk,   but this has been Kirk his whole career from what I've seen.