Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
i would be surprised if the defense doesnt have a circus of ER professionals that will talk about what person dying from a meth/fentanyl overdose experience before collapsing. the most common response from those OD victims, before they go unconscious is "I cant breath", this is coming from an ER RN in hennepin county who deals with ODs quite regularly on her shifts. I also expect they will have experts testifying to the tox drug levels in his system and if they feel that those factor into the death. I doubt the defense is going to go for complete innocence, the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming, but there are likely a litany of other factors that will play in being used to bring the jurors back from the ledge that the prosecution has them on.
Who knows what the jurors are thinking?
Nothing surprises me anymore. Hell, I always come back to "if the glove don't fit..."
Anyways, this brings us right back to the tremendous energy and time expended b4 this trial began - for MS 3.
who is MS 3?
Manslaughter 3 charges vs Manslaughter 2.
Using "precise science," Dr. Tobin said Floyd lapsed into unconsciousness shortly before 8:25 p.m. on May 25 as his oxygen levels plummeted.
Floyd stopped breathing 23 seconds later and "didn't have an ounce of oxygen in his body" less than a minute after losing consciousness, Tobin said. He noted the moment Floyd died when shown the bystander video of his final moments.
"At the beginning you can see he's conscious, you can see slight flickering and then it disappears, so one second he's alive and one second he's no longer," Tobin said. "...That's the moment the life goes out of his body."
After Floyd's breathing ceased, the doctor said that Chauvin's "knee remained on the neck for another 3 minutes and 2 seconds."
The doctor also challenged the defense contention that the powerful opioid fentanyl was a factor in Floyd's death. Analyzing Floyd's breathing rate by viewing one of the officer's body-camera video, Tobin found the rate to be in the normal range. Fentanyl, he said, sharply reduces a person's breathing rate.
Therefore, he said, "Basically it's telling you fentanyl is not on board, it is not having an effect on his respiratory centers."
Tobin, who is based at Hines VA hospital in Chicago and Loyola University, added, "The cause of the low level of oxygen was shallow breathing; small breaths ... that weren't able to carry the air through his lungs down to the essential areas of the lungs that get oxygen into the blood and get rid of the carbon dioxide."
Tobin listed the factors leading to Floyd being unable to take in oxygen, among them, "He is turned prone on the street, that he has the handcuffs in place combined with the street, and that he has a knee on his neck, and he has a knee in his back and side."
https://www.startribune.com/expert-that-...600043531/
Now we are back to trust the science, you can bet the defense will have science of its own that will refute the science presented this far...so again who is the best liar.
Medical science. So yes, Fentanyl is in his system. Yep, Floyd wasn't any choir boy and probably a POS. Yep, the doctor is making some educated guesses about breathing while looking at video. I get why the defense is hanging onto that. But again, its not like science is debatable. There aren't two truths here, there is one truth. Its a trial and we are seeing what defense attorneys do: blur the lines and try to create reasonable doubt, which I'm telling you as a former jury foreman is VERY difficult to explain to most lay people on the jury. They have a hard time grasping it. They focus on the 'doubt' part instead of the 'reasonable' part.
The guy put his knee into his neck with all his weight for 9 minutes, this is why Floyd is dead. But if OJ Simpson can get off, anything goes.
This is why I am not very confident. It all comes down to the jury. The prosecution and defense present their cases. The defense puts George Floyd on trial. The prosecution goes against Chauvin. The jury is going to decide.
The jury includes two white men, six white women, three black men, one black woman and two mixed-race women. The majority are younger than 50 with the youngest in their 20s, while the oldest is in their 60s. We'll see what happens.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
i would be surprised if the defense doesnt have a circus of ER professionals that will talk about what person dying from a meth/fentanyl overdose experience before collapsing. the most common response from those OD victims, before they go unconscious is "I cant breath", this is coming from an ER RN in hennepin county who deals with ODs quite regularly on her shifts. I also expect they will have experts testifying to the tox drug levels in his system and if they feel that those factor into the death. I doubt the defense is going to go for complete innocence, the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming, but there are likely a litany of other factors that will play in being used to bring the jurors back from the ledge that the prosecution has them on.
Who knows what the jurors are thinking?
Nothing surprises me anymore. Hell, I always come back to "if the glove don't fit..."
Anyways, this brings us right back to the tremendous energy and time expended b4 this trial began - for MS 3.
who is MS 3?
Manslaughter 3 charges vs Manslaughter 2.
Using "precise science," Dr. Tobin said Floyd lapsed into unconsciousness shortly before 8:25 p.m. on May 25 as his oxygen levels plummeted.
Floyd stopped breathing 23 seconds later and "didn't have an ounce of oxygen in his body" less than a minute after losing consciousness, Tobin said. He noted the moment Floyd died when shown the bystander video of his final moments.
"At the beginning you can see he's conscious, you can see slight flickering and then it disappears, so one second he's alive and one second he's no longer," Tobin said. "...That's the moment the life goes out of his body."
After Floyd's breathing ceased, the doctor said that Chauvin's "knee remained on the neck for another 3 minutes and 2 seconds."
The doctor also challenged the defense contention that the powerful opioid fentanyl was a factor in Floyd's death. Analyzing Floyd's breathing rate by viewing one of the officer's body-camera video, Tobin found the rate to be in the normal range. Fentanyl, he said, sharply reduces a person's breathing rate.
Therefore, he said, "Basically it's telling you fentanyl is not on board, it is not having an effect on his respiratory centers."
Tobin, who is based at Hines VA hospital in Chicago and Loyola University, added, "The cause of the low level of oxygen was shallow breathing; small breaths ... that weren't able to carry the air through his lungs down to the essential areas of the lungs that get oxygen into the blood and get rid of the carbon dioxide."
Tobin listed the factors leading to Floyd being unable to take in oxygen, among them, "He is turned prone on the street, that he has the handcuffs in place combined with the street, and that he has a knee on his neck, and he has a knee in his back and side."
https://www.startribune.com/expert-that-...600043531/
Now we are back to trust the science, you can bet the defense will have science of its own that will refute the science presented this far...so again who is the best liar.
Medical science. So yes, Fentanyl is in his system. Yep, Floyd wasn't any choir boy and probably a POS. Yep, the doctor is making some educated guesses about breathing while looking at video. I get why the defense is hanging onto that. But again, its not like science is debatable. There aren't two truths here, there is one truth. Its a trial and we are seeing what defense attorneys do: blur the lines and try to create reasonable doubt, which I'm telling you as a former jury foreman is VERY difficult to explain to most lay people on the jury. They have a hard time grasping it. They focus on the 'doubt' part instead of the 'reasonable' part.
The guy put his knee into his neck with all his weight for 9 minutes, this is why Floyd is dead. But if OJ Simpson can get off, anything goes.
The Simpson trial proved that defense teams can conjure 'reasonable doubt' out of just about anything.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
i would be surprised if the defense doesnt have a circus of ER professionals that will talk about what person dying from a meth/fentanyl overdose experience before collapsing. the most common response from those OD victims, before they go unconscious is "I cant breath", this is coming from an ER RN in hennepin county who deals with ODs quite regularly on her shifts. I also expect they will have experts testifying to the tox drug levels in his system and if they feel that those factor into the death. I doubt the defense is going to go for complete innocence, the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming, but there are likely a litany of other factors that will play in being used to bring the jurors back from the ledge that the prosecution has them on.
Who knows what the jurors are thinking?
Nothing surprises me anymore. Hell, I always come back to "if the glove don't fit..."
Anyways, this brings us right back to the tremendous energy and time expended b4 this trial began - for MS 3.
who is MS 3?
Manslaughter 3 charges vs Manslaughter 2.
Using "precise science," Dr. Tobin said Floyd lapsed into unconsciousness shortly before 8:25 p.m. on May 25 as his oxygen levels plummeted.
Floyd stopped breathing 23 seconds later and "didn't have an ounce of oxygen in his body" less than a minute after losing consciousness, Tobin said. He noted the moment Floyd died when shown the bystander video of his final moments.
"At the beginning you can see he's conscious, you can see slight flickering and then it disappears, so one second he's alive and one second he's no longer," Tobin said. "...That's the moment the life goes out of his body."
After Floyd's breathing ceased, the doctor said that Chauvin's "knee remained on the neck for another 3 minutes and 2 seconds."
The doctor also challenged the defense contention that the powerful opioid fentanyl was a factor in Floyd's death. Analyzing Floyd's breathing rate by viewing one of the officer's body-camera video, Tobin found the rate to be in the normal range. Fentanyl, he said, sharply reduces a person's breathing rate.
Therefore, he said, "Basically it's telling you fentanyl is not on board, it is not having an effect on his respiratory centers."
Tobin, who is based at Hines VA hospital in Chicago and Loyola University, added, "The cause of the low level of oxygen was shallow breathing; small breaths ... that weren't able to carry the air through his lungs down to the essential areas of the lungs that get oxygen into the blood and get rid of the carbon dioxide."
Tobin listed the factors leading to Floyd being unable to take in oxygen, among them, "He is turned prone on the street, that he has the handcuffs in place combined with the street, and that he has a knee on his neck, and he has a knee in his back and side."
https://www.startribune.com/expert-that-...600043531/
Now we are back to trust the science, you can bet the defense will have science of its own that will refute the science presented this far...so again who is the best liar.
Medical science. So yes, Fentanyl is in his system. Yep, Floyd wasn't any choir boy and probably a POS. Yep, the doctor is making some educated guesses about breathing while looking at video. I get why the defense is hanging onto that. But again, its not like science is debatable. There aren't two truths here, there is one truth. Its a trial and we are seeing what defense attorneys do: blur the lines and try to create reasonable doubt, which I'm telling you as a former jury foreman is VERY difficult to explain to most lay people on the jury. They have a hard time grasping it. They focus on the 'doubt' part instead of the 'reasonable' part.
The guy put his knee into his neck with all his weight for 9 minutes, this is why Floyd is dead. But if OJ Simpson can get off, anything goes.
Isn't a jury foreman just a lay person that won a popularity contest? I've never been selected to sit, does the foreman get some special training to make them more aware of legal proceedings and how to receive the information?
Yep, its just about herding the cats in the jury box.  No special training, but common sense and the ability to read and presenting the letter of the law and the charges together so that a consensus can be reached. The eye opening part for me was the level of intelligence by a 'jury of your peers'. Yikes.
Underscores the importance of trying not to ever let yourself get in a position where you're fate is subject to the whim/judgement of others.
This.
Medical examiner who did autopsy on George Floyd expected on stand today in Derek Chauvin trial Dr. Andrew Baker's findings are at odds with a prosecution expert who said Floyd died from a lack of oxygen. The Hennepin County medical examiner is expected to testify Friday in the Derek Chauvin murder trial, outlining his conclusions about what killed George Floyd that appear to be at odds with the findings of an earlier expert witness for the state.
Dr. Andrew Baker, who performed the only autopsy on Floyd after he died under the knee of a since-fired Minneapolis police officer on May 25, ruled the cause of death as "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."
He also listed hardening and thickening of the artery walls, heart disease and illicit drug use as "other significant conditions." Fentanyl and methamphetamine were also found in Floyd's system.
Baker's expected testimony Friday could pose challenges for both the state and defense if it echoes the information exchanged in at least a half-dozen meetings he had with prosecutors leading up to the trial.
Documents obtained by the Star Tribune show Baker expressed skepticism that placing Floyd face down on the street with three officers on top of him would be "any more dangerous than other positions."
Cause of death has provided a sharp divide between the state and the defense. Defense attorney Eric Nelson has argued that Floyd died of a cardiac arrest, illicit drug use and various chronic health problems. A prosecution witness called Thursday concluded that Floyd died from a lack of oxygen while being held stomach-down and handcuffed on the pavement for more than 9 minutes.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
Legal experts have been skeptical of the prosecutions charges and strategy since about day 1, this will be interesting to say the least.
There will be riots no matter the outcome IMO.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Legal experts have been skeptical of the prosecutions charges and strategy since about day 1, this will be interesting to say the least.
There will be riots no matter the outcome IMO.
So I’m new to these riots. Do I just go to the local Target and take whatever I want? Is there a dollar limit? I just want to know the rules.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Legal experts have been skeptical of the prosecutions charges and strategy since about day 1, this will be interesting to say the least.
There will be riots no matter the outcome IMO.
So I’m new to these riots. Do I just go to the local Target and take whatever I want? Is there a dollar limit? I just want to know the rules.
Walmart and Dollar Stores too...
You can be black or white, old or young. Lib or far right infiltrator. All are welcome!!
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Legal experts have been skeptical of the prosecutions charges and strategy since about day 1, this will be interesting to say the least.
There will be riots no matter the outcome IMO.
So I’m new to these riots. Do I just go to the local Target and take whatever I want? Is there a dollar limit? I just want to know the rules.
Walmart and Dollar Stores too...
You can be black or white, old or young. Lib or far right infiltrator. All are welcome!!
Thats a bonus. Target is 40 minutes from here. Dollar General is 1 minute.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Legal experts have been skeptical of the prosecutions charges and strategy since about day 1, this will be interesting to say the least.
There will be riots no matter the outcome IMO.
So I’m new to these riots. Do I just go to the local Target and take whatever I want? Is there a dollar limit? I just want to know the rules.
Walmart and Dollar Stores too...
You can be black or white, old or young. Lib or far right infiltrator. All are welcome!!
Thats a bonus. Target is 40 minutes from here. Dollar General is 1 minute.
Dollar general is making a huge push in SD the last couple years, at the rate they are going you will never be more that 15 minutes from one of them by the time they are done...but are they really worth looting?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Legal experts have been skeptical of the prosecutions charges and strategy since about day 1, this will be interesting to say the least.
There will be riots no matter the outcome IMO.
So I’m new to these riots. Do I just go to the local Target and take whatever I want? Is there a dollar limit? I just want to know the rules.
Walmart and Dollar Stores too...
You can be black or white, old or young. Lib or far right infiltrator. All are welcome!!
Thats a bonus. Target is 40 minutes from here. Dollar General is 1 minute.
Dollar general is making a huge push in SD the last couple years, at the rate they are going you will never be more that 15 minutes from on of them by the time they are done...but are they really worth looting?
I used to do a lot of work on $ type stores back when I was working for BIG FOOD...
I still dont know if they are a blessing for those living check to check (and a treasure hunt for those not) or just a scourge that perpetuates bad food for the poor.
We need more Trader Joes in the world over $ General's. But thats just might be my lib lens clouding my view too
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