Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ silverjoel said:
The pendulum has swung too far the other way.
After the Bears game, there was too much hate directed at Cousins. Like I don't want the Vikings to extend him and even I felt there was an uncomfortable amount of hate thrown at him, he's not a bad QB.
Now, it's the opposite. Everything is overlooked. The Vikings offense scored 10 points before their first drive started in the 4th. Cousins' numbers at that time were 16/25 for 155 yards (6.2 YPA and the vast majority of that was YAC), 1 INT and a passer rating of 64.6. Hell, even counting the INT as an incompletion because apparently no QB ever throws INTs in tight coverage and it's all the WR's fault, his passer rating was 81.3.
The first half offense wasn't very good, but not too bad (10 points and not much TOP), and the 3rd quarter offense was horrendous. Those drives were:
3 plays (4 yards) and a punt
1 play (0 yards) and a fumble
5 plays (27 yards) and a punt
2 plays (0 yards) and an INT
That's where the Vikings lost.
Now, Cousins finished with a passer rating of 87.2. Let's see how other QBs did with passer rating on the road against Seattle:
Dalton - 106.5
Bridgewater - 112.7
Goff - 83.3
Jackson - 69.4 (I don't know if this one should count as he had 116 yards rushing and a rushing TD that doesn't get counted, but oh well)
Winston - 103.9
I wouldn't say Cousins had a good game. Down 3 scores in the 4th was considered garbage time, just like @Bears last year. I guess it's not now.
Sorry, but this is a ridiculous post. You can make that same rating-against-common-opponent argument with every QB in the NFL. You can make it look like Ryan Tannehill is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers. You can make it look like Jameis Winston is a better QB than Drew Brees. It's utterly meaningless.
Vikings were down 34 to 17 with 13 minutes left. Cousins, despite no Adam Thielen, the loss of his starting back and his left tackle, and a defense that couldn't stop anyone, and a ridiculous pass rush by the Seahawks who knew we had to pass, brought the team back to 34 to 30 with 7 minutes left. That ain't garbage time; it's called a comeback.
You can use stats to tell any story you want, but if you actually watch the game, you'll see Cousins making some clutch throws at key moments. He is the reason the game was close. The defense is the reason we lost. Cousins didn't give up 400 yards, he didn't give up a fake punt or a blown coverage TD. Hell, even his pick was a ball that Diggs should've caught. He played a helluva game.
How other QBs do against the same Seahawks defense at home is irrelevant how? I didn't compare 1 QB to another. The Seahawks secondary is actually pretty bad at yards, 4th worse in the NFL in passing yards (269.3 yards per game), but pretty good at passer rating (7th best at 85.8). Cousins was average against the Seahawks.
That's not a comeback, the Vikings didn't win. That's making a game look closer than it was.
Do you give Wilson the same credit for a blown coverage TD as you do Cousins? Could the average NFL QB hit a wide open Treadwell? The INT is all on Diggs, so was Rudolph's TD all him?
The Seahawks had 8 players battling the flu, do they get bonus points for that?
Cousins had an average game against that defense and is being praised. Again, the pendulum has swung too far.
I think that it's fair to point out that 6 of our points came from the defense. That means that- prior to the 4th quarter- the offense scored, what, 10 points? I think it's fair to include Cousins in with the rest of the offensive struggles. I wouldn't make him the prime culprit... but he has to be included in the offensive struggles. But, that being said, if the defense was as good as it's reputed to be, the offense would've done more than enough to win the game. The problem is: they aren't that good... and the offense wasn't able to- single-handedly- win the game.
Quote: @silverjoel said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ silverjoel said:
The pendulum has swung too far the other way.
After the Bears game, there was too much hate directed at Cousins. Like I don't want the Vikings to extend him and even I felt there was an uncomfortable amount of hate thrown at him, he's not a bad QB.
Now, it's the opposite. Everything is overlooked. The Vikings offense scored 10 points before their first drive started in the 4th. Cousins' numbers at that time were 16/25 for 155 yards (6.2 YPA and the vast majority of that was YAC), 1 INT and a passer rating of 64.6. Hell, even counting the INT as an incompletion because apparently no QB ever throws INTs in tight coverage and it's all the WR's fault, his passer rating was 81.3.
The first half offense wasn't very good, but not too bad (10 points and not much TOP), and the 3rd quarter offense was horrendous. Those drives were:
3 plays (4 yards) and a punt
1 play (0 yards) and a fumble
5 plays (27 yards) and a punt
2 plays (0 yards) and an INT
That's where the Vikings lost.
Now, Cousins finished with a passer rating of 87.2. Let's see how other QBs did with passer rating on the road against Seattle:
Dalton - 106.5
Bridgewater - 112.7
Goff - 83.3
Jackson - 69.4 (I don't know if this one should count as he had 116 yards rushing and a rushing TD that doesn't get counted, but oh well)
Winston - 103.9
I wouldn't say Cousins had a good game. Down 3 scores in the 4th was considered garbage time, just like @Bears last year. I guess it's not now.
Sorry, but this is a ridiculous post. You can make that same rating-against-common-opponent argument with every QB in the NFL. You can make it look like Ryan Tannehill is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers. You can make it look like Jameis Winston is a better QB than Drew Brees. It's utterly meaningless.
Vikings were down 34 to 17 with 13 minutes left. Cousins, despite no Adam Thielen, the loss of his starting back and his left tackle, and a defense that couldn't stop anyone, and a ridiculous pass rush by the Seahawks who knew we had to pass, brought the team back to 34 to 30 with 7 minutes left. That ain't garbage time; it's called a comeback.
You can use stats to tell any story you want, but if you actually watch the game, you'll see Cousins making some clutch throws at key moments. He is the reason the game was close. The defense is the reason we lost. Cousins didn't give up 400 yards, he didn't give up a fake punt or a blown coverage TD. Hell, even his pick was a ball that Diggs should've caught. He played a helluva game.
How other QBs do against the same Seahawks defense at home is irrelevant how? I didn't compare 1 QB to another. The Seahawks secondary is actually pretty bad at yards, 4th worse in the NFL in passing yards (269.3 yards per game), but pretty good at passer rating (7th best at 85.8). Cousins was average against the Seahawks.
That's not a comeback, the Vikings didn't win. That's making a game look closer than it was.
Do you give Wilson the same credit for a blown coverage TD as you do Cousins? Could the average NFL QB hit a wide open Treadwell? The INT is all on Diggs, so was Rudolph's TD all him?
The Seahawks had 8 players battling the flu, do they get bonus points for that?
Cousins had an average game against that defense and is being praised. Again, the pendulum has swung too far.
Closer than it was? Take away the fake punt, the fumble, the blown coverage TD, the doubled TOP, 200 yards given up on the ground, the Cook injury, the Reiff injury, how would the narrative of this game change?
Curious if you watch any other games in the NFL. You seem to have very little perspective. Yes, any QB could've hit a wide open Treadwell. Who cares about the throw? It was the escape outside the pocket and pump fake that made it work so well.
It's not a comeback if you didn't win? That's ridiculous. Can you not take things apart and evaluate them individually? You sound like Jersey. By this standard, John Elway, because he won a Super Bowl, is a better GM than Rick Spielman, despite the fact that there isn't another person on earth who would agree with that.
Quote: @pumpf said:
I think that it's fair to point out that 6 of our points came from the defense. That means that- prior to the 4th quarter- the offense scored, what, 10 points? I think it's fair to include Cousins in with the rest of the offensive struggles. I wouldn't make him the prime culprit... but he has to be included in the offensive struggles. But, that being said, if the defense was as good as it's reputed to be, the offense would've done more than enough to win the game. The problem is: they aren't that good... and the offense wasn't able to- single-handedly- win the game.
Yeah, I'm not blaming Cousins for the loss. Again, he was almost exactly average against that defense (8 more yards and 3ish more passer rating than the average against that team). I just don't understand the praise. He didn't play bad, but he also didn't play great.
The 3 turnovers (I consider a turnover on downs a turnover) were killer. The Seahawks scores 13 points off of those while only needing a total of 64 yards. I can't put that all on the defense. The defense didn't play great outside of those drive though. Although they did get that pick-6. They played below average overall, but not crazy bad.
Call me crazy, but I'm actually more worried about the offense right now. They are scoring, which is great, but they haven't been able to use sustainable drives for a few games now. It seems they have to use a gimmick hurry up offense to succeed and I don't think that can last.
Cousins isn't blameless. But turnovers didn't allow the Hags to rack up over 200 rushing yards. The Defense and Mike Zimmer did. He trusted the higher rated part of his Defense in order to protect the lower rated part and it failed him. It was a gamble that didn't pay off coupled with zero in-game adjustments.
So what does the future hold for this Defense? Protect the Secondary against Detroit & GB and hope to stop the run? Protect the D-Line against the Bolts & Bears and hope the Secondary holds up?
I don't feel bad for Mike Zimmer the person. He got everything he asked for to build an Elite Defense and it's never been better than good to really good. But I do feel bad for Mike Zimmer the DC. When you can't count on any aspect of your Defense playcalling becomes incredibly difficult.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ silverjoel said:
The pendulum has swung too far the other way.
After the Bears game, there was too much hate directed at Cousins. Like I don't want the Vikings to extend him and even I felt there was an uncomfortable amount of hate thrown at him, he's not a bad QB.
Now, it's the opposite. Everything is overlooked. The Vikings offense scored 10 points before their first drive started in the 4th. Cousins' numbers at that time were 16/25 for 155 yards (6.2 YPA and the vast majority of that was YAC), 1 INT and a passer rating of 64.6. Hell, even counting the INT as an incompletion because apparently no QB ever throws INTs in tight coverage and it's all the WR's fault, his passer rating was 81.3.
The first half offense wasn't very good, but not too bad (10 points and not much TOP), and the 3rd quarter offense was horrendous. Those drives were:
3 plays (4 yards) and a punt
1 play (0 yards) and a fumble
5 plays (27 yards) and a punt
2 plays (0 yards) and an INT
That's where the Vikings lost.
Now, Cousins finished with a passer rating of 87.2. Let's see how other QBs did with passer rating on the road against Seattle:
Dalton - 106.5
Bridgewater - 112.7
Goff - 83.3
Jackson - 69.4 (I don't know if this one should count as he had 116 yards rushing and a rushing TD that doesn't get counted, but oh well)
Winston - 103.9
I wouldn't say Cousins had a good game. Down 3 scores in the 4th was considered garbage time, just like @Bears last year. I guess it's not now.
Sorry, but this is a ridiculous post. You can make that same rating-against-common-opponent argument with every QB in the NFL. You can make it look like Ryan Tannehill is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers. You can make it look like Jameis Winston is a better QB than Drew Brees. It's utterly meaningless.
Vikings were down 34 to 17 with 13 minutes left. Cousins, despite no Adam Thielen, the loss of his starting back and his left tackle, and a defense that couldn't stop anyone, and a ridiculous pass rush by the Seahawks who knew we had to pass, brought the team back to 34 to 30 with 7 minutes left. That ain't garbage time; it's called a comeback.
You can use stats to tell any story you want, but if you actually watch the game, you'll see Cousins making some clutch throws at key moments. He is the reason the game was close. The defense is the reason we lost. Cousins didn't give up 400 yards, he didn't give up a fake punt or a blown coverage TD. Hell, even his pick was a ball that Diggs should've caught. He played a helluva game.
How other QBs do against the same Seahawks defense at home is irrelevant how? I didn't compare 1 QB to another. The Seahawks secondary is actually pretty bad at yards, 4th worse in the NFL in passing yards (269.3 yards per game), but pretty good at passer rating (7th best at 85.8). Cousins was average against the Seahawks.
That's not a comeback, the Vikings didn't win. That's making a game look closer than it was.
Do you give Wilson the same credit for a blown coverage TD as you do Cousins? Could the average NFL QB hit a wide open Treadwell? The INT is all on Diggs, so was Rudolph's TD all him?
The Seahawks had 8 players battling the flu, do they get bonus points for that?
Cousins had an average game against that defense and is being praised. Again, the pendulum has swung too far.
Closer than it was? Take away the fake punt, the fumble, the blown coverage TD, the doubled TOP, 200 yards given up on the ground, the Cook injury, the Reiff injury, how would the narrative of this game change?
Curious if you watch any other games in the NFL. You seem to have very little perspective. Yes, any QB could've hit a wide open Treadwell. Who cares about the throw? It was the escape outside the pocket and pump fake that made it work so well.
It's not a comeback if you didn't win? That's ridiculous. Can you not take things apart and evaluate them individually? You sound like Jersey. By this standard, John Elway, because he won a Super Bowl, is a better GM than Rick Spielman, despite the fact that there isn't another person on earth who would agree with that.
So, take away all the bad plays and the Vikings did well. Take away all of Peterson's long runs and he wasn't a very good RB. Take away Ponder's bad throws and he was an excellent QB.
Yes, I watch other games. In fact, that was like the 3rd or 4th Seahawks game I've seen this year. I watched the Saints destroy that team, although some 4th quarter TDs by the Seahawks made that game look closer. I'm in the Bucs market, so I also saw Winston shred that defense, although they lost because the Seahawks had an actual comeback.
Yes, I can take things apart individually. However, football isn't the sport for that. Where the defense starts on the field (directly tied to offense/ST) impacts their play. Conversely, where the offense starts on the field (directly tied to D/ST) impacts their play. How the offense does, impacts the defense and vice versa. See, the offense didn't score 30 points. They scored 23, the defense scored 7. That's an example of how they impact one another.
Who the hell is talking about Spielman and Elway? What the hell is the point of that? Logical fallacy.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ silverjoel said:
The pendulum has swung too far the other way.
After the Bears game, there was too much hate directed at Cousins. Like I don't want the Vikings to extend him and even I felt there was an uncomfortable amount of hate thrown at him, he's not a bad QB.
Now, it's the opposite. Everything is overlooked. The Vikings offense scored 10 points before their first drive started in the 4th. Cousins' numbers at that time were 16/25 for 155 yards (6.2 YPA and the vast majority of that was YAC), 1 INT and a passer rating of 64.6. Hell, even counting the INT as an incompletion because apparently no QB ever throws INTs in tight coverage and it's all the WR's fault, his passer rating was 81.3.
The first half offense wasn't very good, but not too bad (10 points and not much TOP), and the 3rd quarter offense was horrendous. Those drives were:
3 plays (4 yards) and a punt
1 play (0 yards) and a fumble
5 plays (27 yards) and a punt
2 plays (0 yards) and an INT
That's where the Vikings lost.
Now, Cousins finished with a passer rating of 87.2. Let's see how other QBs did with passer rating on the road against Seattle:
Dalton - 106.5
Bridgewater - 112.7
Goff - 83.3
Jackson - 69.4 (I don't know if this one should count as he had 116 yards rushing and a rushing TD that doesn't get counted, but oh well)
Winston - 103.9
I wouldn't say Cousins had a good game. Down 3 scores in the 4th was considered garbage time, just like @Bears last year. I guess it's not now.
Sorry, but this is a ridiculous post. You can make that same rating-against-common-opponent argument with every QB in the NFL. You can make it look like Ryan Tannehill is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers. You can make it look like Jameis Winston is a better QB than Drew Brees. It's utterly meaningless.
Vikings were down 34 to 17 with 13 minutes left. Cousins, despite no Adam Thielen, the loss of his starting back and his left tackle, and a defense that couldn't stop anyone, and a ridiculous pass rush by the Seahawks who knew we had to pass, brought the team back to 34 to 30 with 7 minutes left. That ain't garbage time; it's called a comeback.
You can use stats to tell any story you want, but if you actually watch the game, you'll see Cousins making some clutch throws at key moments. He is the reason the game was close. The defense is the reason we lost. Cousins didn't give up 400 yards, he didn't give up a fake punt or a blown coverage TD. Hell, even his pick was a ball that Diggs should've caught. He played a helluva game.
How other QBs do against the same Seahawks defense at home is irrelevant how? I didn't compare 1 QB to another. The Seahawks secondary is actually pretty bad at yards, 4th worse in the NFL in passing yards (269.3 yards per game), but pretty good at passer rating (7th best at 85.8). Cousins was average against the Seahawks.
That's not a comeback, the Vikings didn't win. That's making a game look closer than it was.
Do you give Wilson the same credit for a blown coverage TD as you do Cousins? Could the average NFL QB hit a wide open Treadwell? The INT is all on Diggs, so was Rudolph's TD all him?
The Seahawks had 8 players battling the flu, do they get bonus points for that?
Cousins had an average game against that defense and is being praised. Again, the pendulum has swung too far.
Closer than it was? Take away the fake punt, the fumble, the blown coverage TD, the doubled TOP, 200 yards given up on the ground, the Cook injury, the Reiff injury, how would the narrative of this game change?
Curious if you watch any other games in the NFL. You seem to have very little perspective. Yes, any QB could've hit a wide open Treadwell. Who cares about the throw? It was the escape outside the pocket and pump fake that made it work so well.
It's not a comeback if you didn't win? That's ridiculous. Can you not take things apart and evaluate them individually? You sound like Jersey. By this standard, John Elway, because he won a Super Bowl, is a better GM than Rick Spielman, despite the fact that there isn't another person on earth who would agree with that.
Well, there is one...
Quote: @silverjoel said:
So, take away all the bad plays and the Vikings did well. Take away all of Peterson's long runs and he wasn't a very good RB. Take away Ponder's bad throws and he was an excellent QB.
Yes, I watch other games. In fact, that was like the 3rd or 4th Seahawks game I've seen this year. I watched the Saints destroy that team, although some 4th quarter TDs by the Seahawks made that game look closer. I'm in the Bucs market, so I also saw Winston shred that defense, although they lost because the Seahawks had an actual comeback.
Yes, I can take things apart individually. However, football isn't the sport for that. Where the defense starts on the field (directly tied to offense/ST) impacts their play. Conversely, where the offense starts on the field (directly tied to D/ST) impacts their play. How the offense does, impacts the defense and vice versa. See, the offense didn't score 30 points. They scored 23, the defense scored 7. That's an example of how they impact one another.
Who the hell is talking about Spielman and Elway? What the hell is the point of that? Logical fallacy.
Point of clarification: if you took away all of Ponder's bad throws... there wouldn't be any other throws left to consider! :p
Alls i know is if we’re going to whip someone can it be a hot chick with all that S&M stuff thats all the rage?
https://www.vikings.com/news/lunchbreak-...ns-defense
Cousins and his receivers were just a little bit off on Monday
night. They couldn’t get anything going downfield until the fourth
quarter against the Seahawks – for much of the game, Cousins didn’t even
try to test a Seattle secondary that has given up its share of chunk
plays this season. He wasn’t awful. He just wasn’t great, a rarity for
him this season, as he has the best passer rating in the NFL since Week
5.
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