Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ ArizonaViking said:
@ greediron said:
@ Vanguard83 said:
Love your kids without "achievement standards", cherish and protect their childhood.
They have the rest of their lives to work their asses off....can't they ever just be kids?
I know....blast away at me. What do I know, I've only been a high school teacher for 28 years.
Nope, you are so right. Even with sports, we push and push and burn them out. We don't allow them to be children.
My kids, I give them opportunity and I expect them to give it their best. But it is up to them, the drive has to come from them. I suggest weights and training, but they have to make the effort to do it. I know others that travel every weekend to events, camps and whatever. They live on the road for a 10 year old sports team.
Our boys play football with their friends, without adults, refs and expectations. And that is where they have the most fun at it.
Usually it's parents living their own dreams through their children because they either fell short of their own aspirations or wanting to keep them alive. When my kids chose their career paths, I never forced them to do it either this way or that. Like Greed, give them guidance and hope they are up to the hard work that will get them there.
i do agree to some extent... but there is also so much more involved for the parents now for their kids to be in sports than there was 20 years ago. I had a shit ton of money for camps, conditioning trainers, and travel and everything else that is basically required to even have a chance these days that when I saw my kid wasnt putting the same effort into his game as he was wanting me to make... yes I pushed him, but I also gave him the option of walking away anytime he wanted. I dont expect my kids to do anything more than their best effort, but I expect them to earn what they ask for and their way of earning was to put in the effort to get the results.
That is it right there. One of my boys quit organized football, partially because of the crappy coaches. I could sense he wasn't having fun and so I gave him the choice. I wasn't going to continue paying if he didn't want to do it.
I pay for some camps, and like you expect them to go and put in the effort. But I don't drive them to weights and sit outside the door. Heck, a couple of my boys rode bikes to and from weights.
I'll share a little as well. I have a 12 year old grandson I care for. I tried all the traditional avenues when he was starting school. Soccer, flag football, T-ball and basketball. While he liked baseball and loves to go to games he never found a passion in playing it. Then he was invited by a friend to go to his taekwondo dojo. He loved it. They gave us 5 free classes and he was hooked. He's been into it for almost 4 years now. We go 3 or more days a week. The thing I like is it a great form of exercise that he really enjoys but more so is the discipline they instilled. In the last year I've started being amazed at how he's physically grown and his balance and strength. He got his black belt last month. More importantly is the leadership they demand. He's a big kid. That's about the only good thing he got from his father who he barely knew. I'm pretty sure he could make short work of any 12 year old in his classes if he so choosed. I have never yet been called to the school or heard one bad word from a teacher about his behavior. In fact I've been told the opposite. He is the one who self directs his classmates and stops the arguements. I've spent several thousands of $$ on classes, testing, tournament's, equipment...ect. Money well spent. I didn't need to push him and he made us proud anyhow. See how it can work.
Quote: @Vanguard83 said:
Somehow a fourth or fifth grader knocking themselves out academically doesn't sit right with me....just my opinion. I've got my AP students who HAVE to get straight A's.....HAVE to be class ranked number one, who burn candles at every possible end. When the kids get a B in the class, parents jump the teacher and go crying to Admin for grade changes....OR....when parents see their kids don't have an A....will transfer into a lower level course to maintain their GPA, two weeks before the end of the semester and try to influence the new teacher for an improved transfer grade, rather than get a B in the original class.
I have an an administrator at my school who was the PROCTOR for the SAT test that her son was in. She LOST four students SAT tests, but not her sons......curious....how long those tests sat in her office before being sent to the college board.
Its stupid. We are seriously robbing our children of their youth with unattainable goals and burning them out before they even graduate from high school.
anyone ever seen the documentary "Race to nowhere"?
ALL parents, teachers, administrators need to take this documentary to heart.
At the beginning of this school year in the next town over, TWO honors students committed suicide rather than continue with high school.
Love your kids without "achievement standards", cherish and protect their childhood.
They have the rest of their lives to work their asses off....can't they ever just be kids?
I know....blast away at me. What do I know, I've only been a high school teacher for 28 years.
I’d agree with this but would modify it slightly. The thing I have a problem with is the pressure put on kids. As in the example I gave of my nephew, the choice to go to an advanced school and skip grades was completely his own. His Parent’s had the same discussion/reservations you have and are often trying to slow him down not push him forward. They sought advice and have taken many things into consideration before allowing him to do so. I think they allowed him to do what he wants because he’s surprisingly mature and is extremely bored where he’s at. I would equate his love for learning to our love for football. It’s not work to him. In instances like this with kids in the top hundreths IQ I’m ok with it. The toughest thing for my Sister is knowing he’ll leave the nest earlier now. I can certainly relate to that.
Like you though I would not feel the same way about nearly every other kid out there. I’ve also seen it lead to too sad endings.
Quote: @Havoc1649 said:
@ Vanguard83 said:
Somehow a fourth or fifth grader knocking themselves out academically doesn't sit right with me....just my opinion. I've got my AP students who HAVE to get straight A's.....HAVE to be class ranked number one, who burn candles at every possible end. When the kids get a B in the class, parents jump the teacher and go crying to Admin for grade changes....OR....when parents see their kids don't have an A....will transfer into a lower level course to maintain their GPA, two weeks before the end of the semester and try to influence the new teacher for an improved transfer grade, rather than get a B in the original class.
I have an an administrator at my school who was the PROCTOR for the SAT test that her son was in. She LOST four students SAT tests, but not her sons......curious....how long those tests sat in her office before being sent to the college board.
Its stupid. We are seriously robbing our children of their youth with unattainable goals and burning them out before they even graduate from high school.
anyone ever seen the documentary "Race to nowhere"?
ALL parents, teachers, administrators need to take this documentary to heart.
At the beginning of this school year in the next town over, TWO honors students committed suicide rather than continue with high school.
Love your kids without "achievement standards", cherish and protect their childhood.
They have the rest of their lives to work their asses off....can't they ever just be kids?
I know....blast away at me. What do I know, I've only been a high school teacher for 28 years.
I’d agree with this but would modify it slightly. The thing I have a problem with is the pressure put on kids. As in the example I gave of my nephew, the choice to go to an advanced school and skip grades was completely his own. His Parent’s had the same discussion/reservations you have and are often trying to slow him down not push him forward. They sought advice and have taken many things into consideration before allowing him to do so. I think they allowed him to do what he wants because he’s surprisingly mature and is extremely bored where he’s at. I would equate his love for learning to our love for football. It’s not work to him. In instances like this with kids in the top hundreths IQ I’m ok with it. The toughest thing for my Sister is knowing he’ll leave the nest earlier now. I can certainly relate to that.
Like you though I would not feel the same way about nearly every other kid out there. I’ve also seen it lead to too sad endings.
Well said.
Big, Visible, Recognizable names coming out....
Mossimo, designer behind longtime Target label, charged in college admissions scam - The college admissions scandal that broke this week resulted in the arrests of several famous names, but for longtime Target Corp. shoppers perhaps none was as recognizable as Mossimo Giannulli.
Fashion designer Giannulli was a longtime partner for Target (NYSE: TGT), which used the Mossimo name on a line of exclusive apparel and accessories products starting in 2000 before the Minneapolis retailer shelved the brand in 2017.
Giannulli and his wife, Lori Laughlin (a.k.a Becky from "Full House"), were charged with conspiracy to commit mail fraud and honest services mail fraudfor paying half a million dollars in bribes to get their two daughters admitted to the University of Southern California. Giannulli appeared Tuesday in federal court in Boston.
Target has quickly distanced itself from Giannulli, who "signed over rights to his name, signature, voice and personality," to Target in 2000, according to the Los Angeles Times.
"We haven't had a working relationship with Mossimo Giannulli in over a decade and we no longer carry any Mossimo branded products at Target," a company spokesperson told Business Insider yesterday. Target dropped the line completely in 2017 as part of a company-wide overhaul of its in-store brands. It's unclear just how big Target's deal with the designer was, but the Wall Street Journal reported in 2006 that the original, three-year contract was worth at least $27.8 million, and the partnership was extended several times.
An FBI investigation, code named Operation Varsity Blues, alleged that wealthy parents paid millions to a college prep company that in turn bribed standardized test administrators, college sports coaches and admissions faculty. Dozens of people have been arrested.
https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n...llege.html
Lots of heavy political donors. These people certainly aren't middle class.
Colleges weigh fate of students with tainted applications By COLLIN BINKLEY Associated PressMarch 19, 2019 — 4:25pm
BOSTON — In the wake of a massive college bribery scheme, the schools caught in the middle have been left facing a thorny question: What to do about the students who may have been admitted through fraud?
The University of Southern California announced late Monday it had placed holds on an undisclosed number of students, meaning they can't register for classes or obtain transcripts until their cases are reviewed. After a review, USC officials said they would take appropriate action, "up to revoking admission or expulsion."
At Yale, the president declined to comment on specific cases but said it's a "longstanding policy is to rescind the admission of students who falsified their Yale College applications." Stanford similarly noted that students could be "disenrolled" or have offers of admission rescinded.
More than 30 parents have been charged in the scheme in which prosecutors say a disgraced college admissions consultant, William "Rick" Singer , took millions of dollars in bribes to assure their children's entry into top colleges by getting them recruited for sports they didn't play and by arranging for standardized tests to be rigged.
Federal prosecutors say some students never knew about the bribes and fraudulent entrance exams that got them into some of the nation's top universities, but investigators say some students did and were even involved in submitting false information about athletic feats in their applications.
One student posed for photos in 2017 that were allegedly doctored to make it look like he played water polo, according to court records. Investigators say the family bought a water polo ball and cap on Amazon.com to be used for the photos. The photo was edited and used in a fraudulent "athlete profile" that helped him get into USC. His father, Devin Sloane, is accused of paying $200,000 for the scheme. Messages left for Sloane were not immediately returned.
"The parents, the other defendants, are clearly the prime movers of this fraud. It remains to be seen whether we charge any students," U.S. Attorney Andrew Lelling in Boston said in announcing the charges last week.
Several schools said they are still considering what to do about students whose admission may now be tainted.
At Georgetown University, the indictment cast a shadow over the applications of about a dozen students. The school said it was examining its records and "will be taking appropriate action." An alumnus started a petition Tuesday urging the school to pull admissions from anyone involved, saying their presence on campus would diminish the school's prestige and encourage cheating.
Wake Forest University said a student mentioned in the indictment remains enrolled, and school officials have no reason to believe the student was aware of the alleged crimes.
Only USC has said definitively that it revoked offers of admission from applicants tied to the scheme. More than half the parents charged were trying to bribe their children's way into the school in downtown Los Angeles.
Elizabeth Heaton, a college consultant and former University of Pennsylvania admissions officer, said any student who knowingly applied through fraud should be expelled. But schools face a dilemma with students who may not have known, she said, and it may be challenging to prove how much a student knew.
"It's possible that some of these students were as duped as the colleges were," said Heaton, vice president of Bright Horizons College Coach, a consultant firm near Boston. "Do you just summarily punish the sons for the sins of the fathers? It's hard."
The scheme was remarkable in part because of its scale and the cast of rich and famous defendants, including actress Lori Loughlin and her fashion designer husband, Mossimo Giannulli, who allegedly paid $500,000 to have their two daughters labeled as crew team recruits.
But colleges are hardly unfamiliar with efforts to bend the rules. An entire industry has been built to catch people who cheat on the SAT and other standardized tests.
The same day that prosecutors in Boston revealed details about the bribery ring, in fact, their counterparts in Los Angeles announced arrests in a scheme to help Chinese nationals obtain student visas. Prosecutors say five people used fake passports to impersonate the Chinese nationals and take an English fluency test on their behalf.
Mark Sklarow, CEO of the Independent Educational Consultants Association, said schools are increasingly on the lookout for applicants coming from China with faked transcripts, recommendations and other application records.
"It's an issue that I think every college in America has been dealing with over the last few years," Sklarow said.
In cases from abroad, colleges typically don't have to deal out justice on their own: The people involved are often deported or denied visas. But in other cases, colleges have been swift to boot students who get in through fraud.
Cornell University expelled a student in 2013 after finding that she transferred with a forged transcript showing a 4.0 grade point average, when in fact she had a 2.79. The student, Cavya Chandra, was sentenced to five years of probation for loan fraud in that case because she had received federal student aid.
More recently, colleges have drawn attention for using their power to rescind admission in cases unrelated to fraud.
Harvard University ignited a debate in 2017 when it rescinded offers to at least 10 students because they made offensive comments online. The school found that students had joked about the Holocaust, sexual assault and racial minorities in a private Facebook group. Some observers called it a violation of free speech, while some applauded Harvard for taking a strong stance against racist comments.
In 2017, the University of California at Irvine revoked admission to nearly 500 applicants because more students had accepted than officials expected.
it doesn't matter whether the poor students knew about the cheating or not---they got in because of the cheating and every one should be rescinded/expelled.
Obviously mom and dad have the cash to help these poor children out---maybe they can hire real tutors so their children can earn their way into college the old fashion way
Quote: @greediron said:
Lots of heavy political donors. These people certainly aren't middle class.
Is there is still a "middle class" My brother?
After WWII and men returned to work from war, and Rosie became a homemaker, one salary could provide for the nuclear family. Marriages at a younger age, and the baby boom the middle class was created.
20 years later women entered the workforce and we had the "disposable" income (remember that?) women's salary became a "supplemental income" and kids would let themselves in the house at the end of the school day (latch key kids). we still had the nuclear family, but anything the family wanted outside of the husbands salary required that "disposable income"
Now...that "disposable income" has transitioned into "double income" in order to purchase a home, send kids to college..."the American Dream". The nuclear family of dad, mom, and kids...now includes other generations, grandparents, grandchildren.
My wife and I make a good salary but a third of it goes to taxes.
Trying to get my daughter out of college with a degree - debt free, independent and gainfully employed. I think those days are past.
Im praying I'm still alive when I can retire, and have a couple years of leisure, but chances are I'll croak before I retire, but I know my tombstone will read.
worked hard in school...
worked hard in college...
worked hard for 40 years...
died
Im not middle class, I'm working class, just like everyone else that gets up to put food on the table and keep the heat on.
Quote: @Vanguard83 said:
@ greediron said:
Lots of heavy political donors. These people certainly aren't middle class.
Is there is still a "middle class" My brother?
After WWII and men returned to work from war, and Rosie became a homemaker, one salary could provide for the nuclear family. Marriages at a younger age, and the baby boom the middle class was created.
20 years later women entered the workforce and we had the "disposable" income (remember that?) women's salary became a "supplemental income" and kids would let themselves in the house at the end of the school day (latch key kids). we still had the nuclear family, but anything the family wanted outside of the husbands salary required that "disposable income"
Now...that "disposable income" has transitioned into "double income" in order to purchase a home, send kids to college..."the American Dream". The nuclear family of dad, mom, and kids...now includes other generations, grandparents, grandchildren.
My wife and I make a good salary but a third of it goes to taxes.
Trying to get my daughter out of college with a degree - debt free, independent and gainfully employed. I think those days are past.
Im praying I'm still alive when I can retire, and have a couple years of leisure, but chances are I'll croak before I retire, but I know my tombstone will read.
worked hard in school...
worked hard in college...
worked hard for 40 years...
died
Im not middle class, I'm working class, just like everyone else that gets up to put food on the table and keep the heat on.
Feel you, profound post.
There seems to be advantages to college entrance if you're a minority/'disadvantaged'. (Not complaining, just observing)
There obviously are advantages to the uber wealthy. (Legacy donations/the above scandal)
Altho the rise of college costs are mind-bottling... I hope/think it's (college education) still within reach of even most of us middle/working class.
I'm the proud son of a janitor and driver's license examiner... and still got a doctorate. (readily available loans I paid back, with (considerable) interest)
My daughter is a high-achieving HS senior... and has been accepted to her "reach" college, her "expected" college and her "safe" college.
(^^ that statement is worth a whole other thread, lol)
If she decides to attend her "reach"... she'll be taking out sizable loans.
Her "expected" and "safe" colleges will be much less expensive.
IOW, I don't know things are truly so dire (for middle class)..... but DO agree things are not trending in the right direction.
(there are many educational options)
Dave Ramsey has great advice: "The goal should be an education... not a pedigree."
But yeah, it's crazy... and I do agree kids are being stressed to perform WAYYY to early.
Also, grade-flation is a SERIOUS problem. How TF are 2/3'rds of a class on high honor roll??? (another thread topic).
One of the more interesting things about this scandal?
While one of the Hollywood mom's was being arrested... her daughter was in the Bahamas on the yacht of one of the USC BOTrustees.
The epitome of "first-world problems"? 
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