Quote: @VikingIowA said:
This is pretty simple. Offer cousins a one year 30 million with a guaranteed 2 year if he meets certain performance incentives, tied to team not individual success. NFC divisional round appearance at minimum. If he doesn't take that, which he won't it proves he is who he is, a self serving, individual first, overpaid player. There could be multiple bridge QBs this offseasn. Hell Goff is only making 25 mil and scheduled for that next year as well. Mayfield, who we could have signed, could have easily been playing in the NFC championship game given a few different outcomes on plays yesterday. Mullens type players won't get the job done but a Minshew, Mac Jones, Cooper Rush, Darnold, Carr (if available), player just might offer competitive play on par with Mayfield while still either drafting a top QB or top defensive player and developing second tier QB drafted in the second whit cap flexibility.
I would do this and dump Cousins because Cousins won't offer a team friendly deal and the likelihood of him suddenly changing his spots when it comes to field of play are extremely low. We need to rebuild but having money to sign free agents (that are good signings) and making Kwesi prove he can draft competently along with those signings are as important as drafting a franchise QB.
I agree Kirk shouldn’t (and won't) get top of market because of his injury. But we are talking about a guy who, at the time of his injury, was getting MVP attention coming off JJ-less victories over both the 49ers and the Packers.
To say THAT guy is a greedy, self-serving bastard if he doesn’t accept a deal that would make him the lowest-paid starting QB in the NFL not named Geno is pretty ridiculous.
Yes, 3 QBs were drafted in the first round in the last draft and all three started games and 2 out of 3 were pretty good. This year's QB class is predicted by experts to be better. Many said that Anthony Richardson was too raw and needed to sit and I was one of them. When some said the Vikings were interested in him I was shaking my head and was hoping we would not get him.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Who's to say Cousins even comes back as the same player, even with advancements in medicine? That's his plant achillies he blew out and any instability leads to less zip on throws and the body potentially compensating leading to other injuries. He's 36 and that's not the kind of injury you want for those very reasons. The injury and the age muddies the waters even more on wether we had any intention on bringing him back anyway. I wouldn't do anything outside of an incentive laden one year deal, with a team option for a second year. It's just such a huge roll of the dice to get into "guarantees" and big money deals (which you know he wants) when talking about a guy like Cousins and the circumstances surrounding that signing.
I'm not so certain that Russell Wilson wouldn't be the better bet on a short term deal
OK, a couple of things:
1. Kirk has been one of the most robust players in the league, especially at his position. I have to believe he's attacking his rehab (now with stem cells, apparently) the way he maintained his endurance. He's likely going to want more than a year, and as he's rated as the top or among the top free agents and was leading the NFL in TD passes when injured...he has some ammo on his side. That said, he hasn't pushed to reset the league max since his initial deal, and I don't see him pushing for Burrows/Herbert money now.
2. On that topic...Wilson DOES want serious money, his own office, his own training staff, his...well, it's all about him, him, him at this point, and he's shown less endurance than Cousins, while also arguably looking "cooked" as opposed to "having a career year" which was the case for Kirk up to the Achilles "pop".
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Who's to say Cousins even comes back as the same player, even with advancements in medicine? That's his plant achillies he blew out and any instability leads to less zip on throws and the body potentially compensating leading to other injuries. He's 36 and that's not the kind of injury you want for those very reasons. The injury and the age muddies the waters even more on wether we had any intention on bringing him back anyway. I wouldn't do anything outside of an incentive laden one year deal, with a team option for a second year. It's just such a huge roll of the dice to get into "guarantees" and big money deals (which you know he wants) when talking about a guy like Cousins and the circumstances surrounding that signing.
I'm not so certain that Russell Wilson wouldn't be the better bet on a short term deal
OK, a couple of things:
1. Kirk has been one of the most robust players in the league, especially at his position. I have to believe he's attacking his rehab (now with stem cells, apparently) the way he maintained his endurance. He's likely going to want more than a year, and as he's rated as the top or among the top free agents and was leading the NFL in TD passes when injured...he has some ammo on his side. That said, he hasn't pushed to reset the league max since his initial deal, and I don't see him pushing for Burrows/Herbert money now.
2. On that topic...Wilson DOES want serious money, his own office, his own training staff, his...well, it's all about him, him, him at this point, and he's shown less endurance than Cousins, while also arguably looking "cooked" as opposed to "having a career year" which was the case for Kirk up to the Achilles "pop".
I get all that and all things being equal I'd rather have Cousins back. Unfortunately not all things are equal and you have to factor in the injury, when will he be back, and how much will this hinder him as a 36 year old player going forward? Does he become more susceptible to injury with the body compensating and his offseason workouts being different than normal? All that's possible and factors in when talking about contract length and amount. That's where this all gets sticky. If the Vikings give him anything more than a "prove it" one year deal, they better have assurances, protect themselves, and not let Kirk dictate terms as he's done in the past...otherwise they are fools and would be better off letting Kirk make some other organization take that risk
Quote: @FLVike said:
Yes, 3 QBs were drafted in the first round in the last draft and all three started games and 2 out of 3 were pretty good. This year's QB class is predicted by experts to be better. Many said that Anthony Richardson was too raw and needed to sit and I was one of them. When some said the Vikings were interested in him I was shaking my head and was hoping we would not get him.
3 QBs were drafted in the first round. Stroud was great, Young was terrible, and the jury is out on Richardson. Under 600 yards and under 60% completion in 4 games isn't exactly setting the world on fire, but it's a small sample size.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ Zanary said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Who's to say Cousins even comes back as the same player, even with advancements in medicine? That's his plant achillies he blew out and any instability leads to less zip on throws and the body potentially compensating leading to other injuries. He's 36 and that's not the kind of injury you want for those very reasons. The injury and the age muddies the waters even more on wether we had any intention on bringing him back anyway. I wouldn't do anything outside of an incentive laden one year deal, with a team option for a second year. It's just such a huge roll of the dice to get into "guarantees" and big money deals (which you know he wants) when talking about a guy like Cousins and the circumstances surrounding that signing.
I'm not so certain that Russell Wilson wouldn't be the better bet on a short term deal
OK, a couple of things:
1. Kirk has been one of the most robust players in the league, especially at his position. I have to believe he's attacking his rehab (now with stem cells, apparently) the way he maintained his endurance. He's likely going to want more than a year, and as he's rated as the top or among the top free agents and was leading the NFL in TD passes when injured...he has some ammo on his side. That said, he hasn't pushed to reset the league max since his initial deal, and I don't see him pushing for Burrows/Herbert money now.
2. On that topic...Wilson DOES want serious money, his own office, his own training staff, his...well, it's all about him, him, him at this point, and he's shown less endurance than Cousins, while also arguably looking "cooked" as opposed to "having a career year" which was the case for Kirk up to the Achilles "pop".
I get all that and all things being equal I'd rather have Cousins back. Unfortunately not all things are equal and you have to factor in the injury, when will he be back, and how much will this hinder him as a 36 year old player going forward? Does he become more susceptible to injury with the body compensating and his offseason workouts being different than normal? All that's possible and factors in when talking about contract length and amount. That's where this all gets sticky. If the Vikings give him anything more than a "prove it" one year deal, they better have assurances, protect themselves, and not let Kirk dictate terms as he's done in the past...otherwise they are fools and would be better off letting Kirk make some other organization take that risk
Exactly what does Kirk have to “prove”? This narrative that at “36 years of age he’s too old to recover” is complete BS. It’s a convenient excuse to move on from a QB that “costs too much” or “crumbles under pressure” or whatever reason people say as to why Cousins shouldn’t be the QB.
Look, he’s going to heal. He’s in far better shape than 99 percent of people 10 years younger than he is. He has access to literally world class medical and training staff. He is as tough as they come. And last i checked, the Achilles injury didn’t affect his brain or his arm.
Anyone that wants to say “he needs to sign a cheap deal below market value because he got hurt” is only setting themselves up to rip him for being “greedy” for signing for what he’s worth. Look, if you wanna sit there and say Kirk isn’t worth the money because you don’t think he’s good enough, fine. Just don't use the injury as a scapegoat.
People on here are googling “recovery time for an Achilles” and are quoting 12-18 months. When that’s the average time for fat lazy assholes like us who tear our Achilles stepping off the curb wrong.
It’s funny….Aaron Rodgers is 40, smokes weed and does Ayahuaska. Yet literally NO ONE is debating whether or not HE’S coming back from the same injury.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Zanary said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Who's to say Cousins even comes back as the same player, even with advancements in medicine? That's his plant achillies he blew out and any instability leads to less zip on throws and the body potentially compensating leading to other injuries. He's 36 and that's not the kind of injury you want for those very reasons. The injury and the age muddies the waters even more on wether we had any intention on bringing him back anyway. I wouldn't do anything outside of an incentive laden one year deal, with a team option for a second year. It's just such a huge roll of the dice to get into "guarantees" and big money deals (which you know he wants) when talking about a guy like Cousins and the circumstances surrounding that signing.
I'm not so certain that Russell Wilson wouldn't be the better bet on a short term deal
OK, a couple of things:
1. Kirk has been one of the most robust players in the league, especially at his position. I have to believe he's attacking his rehab (now with stem cells, apparently) the way he maintained his endurance. He's likely going to want more than a year, and as he's rated as the top or among the top free agents and was leading the NFL in TD passes when injured...he has some ammo on his side. That said, he hasn't pushed to reset the league max since his initial deal, and I don't see him pushing for Burrows/Herbert money now.
2. On that topic...Wilson DOES want serious money, his own office, his own training staff, his...well, it's all about him, him, him at this point, and he's shown less endurance than Cousins, while also arguably looking "cooked" as opposed to "having a career year" which was the case for Kirk up to the Achilles "pop".
I get all that and all things being equal I'd rather have Cousins back. Unfortunately not all things are equal and you have to factor in the injury, when will he be back, and how much will this hinder him as a 36 year old player going forward? Does he become more susceptible to injury with the body compensating and his offseason workouts being different than normal? All that's possible and factors in when talking about contract length and amount. That's where this all gets sticky. If the Vikings give him anything more than a "prove it" one year deal, they better have assurances, protect themselves, and not let Kirk dictate terms as he's done in the past...otherwise they are fools and would be better off letting Kirk make some other organization take that risk
Exactly what does Kirk have to “prove”? This narrative that at “36 years of age he’s too old to recover” is complete BS. It’s a convenient excuse to move on from a QB that “costs too much” or “crumbles under pressure” or whatever reason people say as to why Cousins shouldn’t be the QB.
Look, he’s going to heal. He’s in far better shape than 99 percent of people 10 years younger than he is. He has access to literally world class medical and training staff. He is as tough as they come. And last i checked, the Achilles injury didn’t affect his brain or his arm.
Anyone that wants to say “he needs to sign a cheap deal below market value because he got hurt” is only setting themselves up to rip him for being “greedy” for signing for what he’s worth. Look, if you wanna sit there and say Kirk isn’t worth the money because you don’t think he’s good enough, fine. Just don't use the injury as a scapegoat.
People on here are googling “recovery time for an Achilles” and are quoting 12-18 months. When that’s the average time for fat lazy assholes like us who tear our Achilles stepping off the curb wrong.
It’s funny….Aaron Rodgers is 40, smokes weed and does Ayahuaska. Yet literally NO ONE is debating whether or not HE’S coming back from the same injury.
Maybe thats because nobody is suggesting that the Vikings sign him to a contract? There are/were plenty that said his career was effectively over when he went down week one.
Oh, one more thing about Kirk "dictating terms to the team":
the Vikings made him the initial offer, because he was a rarity: a productive QB in his prime coming available in free agency. It wasn't what he demanded, other than the guarantees...and that's something that athletes in other sports hack on the NFL for...regularly.
Since then? His re-signings have come with renegotiations allowing the team to move his money around in terms of bonuses, future hits, etc, to help pay other players. This has been true since his 3rd season, and he's worked with the team, not dictated, despite the attempted character assassinations among his hate club.
Yeah, he's made big money at a big-money position in a league where the top-level contracts are over $50m/season...but, he wasn't asking for that, allowed his money to be pushed forward, so it's bizarre to assume he's going to utterly reverse all previous behaviors and bend the team over.
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Who's to say Cousins even comes back as the same player, even with advancements in medicine? That's his plant achillies he blew out and any instability leads to less zip on throws and the body potentially compensating leading to other injuries. He's 36 and that's not the kind of injury you want for those very reasons. The injury and the age muddies the waters even more on wether we had any intention on bringing him back anyway. I wouldn't do anything outside of an incentive laden one year deal, with a team option for a second year. It's just such a huge roll of the dice to get into "guarantees" and big money deals (which you know he wants) when talking about a guy like Cousins and the circumstances surrounding that signing.
I'm not so certain that Russell Wilson wouldn't be the better bet on a short term deal
OK, a couple of things:
1. Kirk has been one of the most robust players in the league, especially at his position. I have to believe he's attacking his rehab (now with stem cells, apparently) the way he maintained his endurance. He's likely going to want more than a year, and as he's rated as the top or among the top free agents and was leading the NFL in TD passes when injured...he has some ammo on his side. That said, he hasn't pushed to reset the league max since his initial deal, and I don't see him pushing for Burrows/Herbert money now.
2. On that topic...Wilson DOES want serious money, his own office, his own training staff, his...well, it's all about him, him, him at this point, and he's shown less endurance than Cousins, while also arguably looking "cooked" as opposed to "having a career year" which was the case for Kirk up to the Achilles "pop".
The thing that gets lost in all this is that Cousins, if he returns, will be entering year 3 in the same offense. I think continuity is by far the most underrated factor in football...at every position, but especially QB.
Many were excited to see what Cousins might do returning to the same offense and same OC for the first time in 7 seasons. Don't discount that. It's a big factor. Alex Smith had 5 different OCs in five seasons. Give him the same offense, he went to the Pro Bowl and led the NFL in passer rating. Tom Brady wasn't some robo QB. But he ran the same offense for a decade. Even took it with him to Tampa. That is a huge advantage.
Cousins was having his best season in year two. His play was ridiculous. Nobody wants to see what year three might look like? I sure as hell do.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Many were excited to see what Cousins might do returning to the same offense and same OC for the first time in 7 seasons. Don't discount that. It's a big factor. Alex Smith had 5 different OCs in five seasons. Give him the same offense, he went to the Pro Bowl and led the NFL in passer rating. Tom Brady wasn't some robo QB. But he ran the same offense for a decade. Even took it with him to Tampa. That is a huge advantage.
Cousins was having his best season in year two. His play was ridiculous. Nobody wants to see what year three might look like? I sure as hell do.
The thing I always remember about the Chiefs and Smith is that they were kind of like us at the time, playoff contender, just couldn't get over the top and it was the bold move they made to move past Smith and move up in the draft and take Mahomes that completely altered the course of their franchise. I would rate Cousins ahead of Smith and I would not mind seeing him back, but I also feel with a deep QB class this year and us picking higher than usual, that this is the year to take that shot.
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