Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@ FLVike said:
If it were up to some here Cousins would get a lift-time contract. How many chances does this dude get? He couldn't get it done with the BEST WR in the NFL. What's next for Cousins, the Hall of Fame and his number retired?I have never seen such an average QB accomplish so little but get so many accolades and fan support.Sorry but there are better QBs at local parks.
But all he needs is a great OL and good running game. A top WR duo and a receiving threat TE. And a top 10 defense.
You surround Kirk with that and you get past the wild card round every year
How many quarterbacks are great without some/all of those things? How many QBs won a chip without at least some of the things you listed?
I'll be waiting
How many have needed all of them....I will wait.
Every time the team comes up short, its never about Kirk or his contract.
Huh, I thought it was always about Kirk and his contract...
for me, its mostly just his contract. His short comings as a QB could be worked around if we had more cap space to put into upgrading our IOL, as a passer I think he is one of the best out there, but his lack of movement in the pocket, or inability to extend plays really devalues him for me in a todays NFL were the defenders are so much quicker and athletic than most of the OL they face.
Your argument about Kirk's contract makes no sense. Kirk Cousins was the 15th highest paid QB in the NFL this past season. You know what's holding this team back infinitely more than Kirk's contract???? It's the fact that we've drafted like crap and haven't fortifed the OL and DL with quality draft picks.
The biggest irony of this whole kick Kirk to the curb thing is even if the best possible scenario happens and we draft the next Mahomes, THAT QBs contract is going to eat up WAY more of the cap than any Cousins' contract will.
If you don't like Kirk and think he sucks, just say it. Don't hide behind the guise that his contract is somehow holding the Vikings back
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@ FLVike said:
If it were up to some here Cousins would get a lift-time contract. How many chances does this dude get? He couldn't get it done with the BEST WR in the NFL. What's next for Cousins, the Hall of Fame and his number retired?I have never seen such an average QB accomplish so little but get so many accolades and fan support.Sorry but there are better QBs at local parks.
But all he needs is a great OL and good running game. A top WR duo and a receiving threat TE. And a top 10 defense.
You surround Kirk with that and you get past the wild card round every year
How many quarterbacks are great without some/all of those things? How many QBs won a chip without at least some of the things you listed?
I'll be waiting
How many have needed all of them....I will wait.
Every time the team comes up short, its never about Kirk or his contract.
Huh, I thought it was always about Kirk and his contract...
for me, its mostly just his contract. His short comings as a QB could be worked around if we had more cap space to put into upgrading our IOL, as a passer I think he is one of the best out there, but his lack of movement in the pocket, or inability to extend plays really devalues him for me in a todays NFL were the defenders are so much quicker and athletic than most of the OL they face.
Your argument about Kirk's contract makes no sense. Kirk Cousins was the 15th highest paid QB in the NFL this past season. You know what's holding this team back infinitely more than Kirk's contract???? It's the fact that we've drafted like crap and haven't fortifed the OL and DL with quality draft picks.
The biggest irony of this whole kick Kirk to the curb thing is even if the best possible scenario happens and we draft the next Mahomes, THAT QBs contract is going to eat up WAY more of the cap than any Cousins' contract will.
If you don't like Kirk and think he sucks, just say it. Don't hide behind the guise that his contract is somehow holding the Vikings back
I like Kirk as a human, and for the most part as a passer, and no matter how much you try and twist it, thats the truth, you are right, they havent drafted for shit, but his contract this past year wasnt the only one that has held back the team. Him being the highest paid QB in the league for the first 4 years he was here didnt do the roster any favors, giving him contracts that required pushing cap hits out into the future unplayed years are not helping the team make moves to better the roster.
as far as hitting on the next mahomes, they will still have 4 years of cheap QB play to get ready to take on a big contract if he ends up being worth it, but I would suggest that they keep going to that QB pool so they dont get held hostage and end up overpaying for the position, hopefully they can hit on one every 4 years that is able to take the reins if the QB1 gets greedy.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@ FLVike said:
If it were up to some here Cousins would get a lift-time contract. How many chances does this dude get? He couldn't get it done with the BEST WR in the NFL. What's next for Cousins, the Hall of Fame and his number retired?I have never seen such an average QB accomplish so little but get so many accolades and fan support.Sorry but there are better QBs at local parks.
But all he needs is a great OL and good running game. A top WR duo and a receiving threat TE. And a top 10 defense.
You surround Kirk with that and you get past the wild card round every year
How many quarterbacks are great without some/all of those things? How many QBs won a chip without at least some of the things you listed?
I'll be waiting
How many have needed all of them....I will wait.
Every time the team comes up short, its never about Kirk or his contract.
Huh, I thought it was always about Kirk and his contract...
for me, its mostly just his contract. His short comings as a QB could be worked around if we had more cap space to put into upgrading our IOL, as a passer I think he is one of the best out there, but his lack of movement in the pocket, or inability to extend plays really devalues him for me in a todays NFL were the defenders are so much quicker and athletic than most of the OL they face.
Your argument about Kirk's contract makes no sense. Kirk Cousins was the 15th highest paid QB in the NFL this past season. You know what's holding this team back infinitely more than Kirk's contract???? It's the fact that we've drafted like crap and haven't fortifed the OL and DL with quality draft picks.
The biggest irony of this whole kick Kirk to the curb thing is even if the best possible scenario happens and we draft the next Mahomes, THAT QBs contract is going to eat up WAY more of the cap than any Cousins' contract will.
If you don't like Kirk and think he sucks, just say it. Don't hide behind the guise that his contract is somehow holding the Vikings back
I like Kirk as a human, and for the most part as a passer, and no matter how much you try and twist it, thats the truth, you are right, they havent drafted for shit, but his contract this past year wasnt the only one that has held back the team. Him being the highest paid QB in the league for the first 4 years he was here didnt do the roster any favors, giving him contracts that required pushing cap hits out into the future unplayed years are not helping the team make moves to better the roster.
as far as hitting on the next mahomes, they will still have 4 years of cheap QB play to get ready to take on a big contract if he ends up being worth it, but I would suggest that they keep going to that QB pool so they dont get held hostage and end up overpaying for the position, hopefully they can hit on one every 4 years that is able to take the reins if the QB1 gets greedy.
If there is one position in the NFL that literally every team will overpay for, it’s quarterback. Because if you don’t have a good/great QB, you will have zero success and absolutely not win a Super Bowl.
Mark my words…. if we do happen upon the next great QB somehow, he can write his own lottery ticket and we will happily pay it
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@ FLVike said:
If it were up to some here Cousins would get a lift-time contract. How many chances does this dude get? He couldn't get it done with the BEST WR in the NFL. What's next for Cousins, the Hall of Fame and his number retired?I have never seen such an average QB accomplish so little but get so many accolades and fan support.Sorry but there are better QBs at local parks.
But all he needs is a great OL and good running game. A top WR duo and a receiving threat TE. And a top 10 defense.
You surround Kirk with that and you get past the wild card round every year
How many quarterbacks are great without some/all of those things? How many QBs won a chip without at least some of the things you listed?
I'll be waiting
How many have needed all of them....I will wait.
Every time the team comes up short, its never about Kirk or his contract.
Huh, I thought it was always about Kirk and his contract...
for me, its mostly just his contract. His short comings as a QB could be worked around if we had more cap space to put into upgrading our IOL, as a passer I think he is one of the best out there, but his lack of movement in the pocket, or inability to extend plays really devalues him for me in a todays NFL were the defenders are so much quicker and athletic than most of the OL they face.
Your argument about Kirk's contract makes no sense. Kirk Cousins was the 15th highest paid QB in the NFL this past season. You know what's holding this team back infinitely more than Kirk's contract???? It's the fact that we've drafted like crap and haven't fortifed the OL and DL with quality draft picks.
The biggest irony of this whole kick Kirk to the curb thing is even if the best possible scenario happens and we draft the next Mahomes, THAT QBs contract is going to eat up WAY more of the cap than any Cousins' contract will.
If you don't like Kirk and think he sucks, just say it. Don't hide behind the guise that his contract is somehow holding the Vikings back
I like Kirk as a human, and for the most part as a passer, and no matter how much you try and twist it, thats the truth, you are right, they havent drafted for shit, but his contract this past year wasnt the only one that has held back the team. Him being the highest paid QB in the league for the first 4 years he was here didnt do the roster any favors, giving him contracts that required pushing cap hits out into the future unplayed years are not helping the team make moves to better the roster.
as far as hitting on the next mahomes, they will still have 4 years of cheap QB play to get ready to take on a big contract if he ends up being worth it, but I would suggest that they keep going to that QB pool so they dont get held hostage and end up overpaying for the position, hopefully they can hit on one every 4 years that is able to take the reins if the QB1 gets greedy.
I don't think you answered my question from earlier: With our current cap situation of 42 million cap space, given the likely retirement of Harry, cuts of Davenport, Lynch, Tonga, etc., if we don't save 10-12 million on the QB salary, (going from a top 5 passer to ?), who are we precluded from signing in FA, along with re-signing JJ, DH?
We can still draft QBOTF if he's there. We aren't in cap hell anymore.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@ FLVike said:
If it were up to some here Cousins would get a lift-time contract. How many chances does this dude get? He couldn't get it done with the BEST WR in the NFL. What's next for Cousins, the Hall of Fame and his number retired?I have never seen such an average QB accomplish so little but get so many accolades and fan support.Sorry but there are better QBs at local parks.
But all he needs is a great OL and good running game. A top WR duo and a receiving threat TE. And a top 10 defense.
You surround Kirk with that and you get past the wild card round every year
How many quarterbacks are great without some/all of those things? How many QBs won a chip without at least some of the things you listed?
I'll be waiting
How many have needed all of them....I will wait.
Every time the team comes up short, its never about Kirk or his contract.
Huh, I thought it was always about Kirk and his contract...
for me, its mostly just his contract. His short comings as a QB could be worked around if we had more cap space to put into upgrading our IOL, as a passer I think he is one of the best out there, but his lack of movement in the pocket, or inability to extend plays really devalues him for me in a todays NFL were the defenders are so much quicker and athletic than most of the OL they face.
Your argument about Kirk's contract makes no sense. Kirk Cousins was the 15th highest paid QB in the NFL this past season. You know what's holding this team back infinitely more than Kirk's contract???? It's the fact that we've drafted like crap and haven't fortifed the OL and DL with quality draft picks.
The biggest irony of this whole kick Kirk to the curb thing is even if the best possible scenario happens and we draft the next Mahomes, THAT QBs contract is going to eat up WAY more of the cap than any Cousins' contract will.
If you don't like Kirk and think he sucks, just say it. Don't hide behind the guise that his contract is somehow holding the Vikings back
I like Kirk as a human, and for the most part as a passer, and no matter how much you try and twist it, thats the truth, you are right, they havent drafted for shit, but his contract this past year wasnt the only one that has held back the team. Him being the highest paid QB in the league for the first 4 years he was here didnt do the roster any favors, giving him contracts that required pushing cap hits out into the future unplayed years are not helping the team make moves to better the roster.
as far as hitting on the next mahomes, they will still have 4 years of cheap QB play to get ready to take on a big contract if he ends up being worth it, but I would suggest that they keep going to that QB pool so they dont get held hostage and end up overpaying for the position, hopefully they can hit on one every 4 years that is able to take the reins if the QB1 gets greedy.
I don't think you answered my question from earlier: With our current cap situation of 42 million cap space, given the likely retirement of Harry, cuts of Davenport, Lynch, Tonga, etc., if we don't save 10-12 million on the QB salary, (going from a top 5 passer to ?), who are we precluded from signing in FA, along with re-signing JJ, DH?
We can still draft QBOTF if he's there. We aren't in cap hell anymore.
give me the list of free agents that will be available when FA starts, the numbers JJ and Hunter want, and I will read the tea leaves for you... but unless they keep kicking the cap can down the road I can be pretty confident in saying that we are not going to be able to sign upgrades on the IOL and IDL, as well as lock down JJ and Hunter, as well as keep Kirk, sign our rookies and fill the other 20 roster spots with anything resembling NFL level talent.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@ FLVike said:
If it were up to some here Cousins would get a lift-time contract. How many chances does this dude get? He couldn't get it done with the BEST WR in the NFL. What's next for Cousins, the Hall of Fame and his number retired?I have never seen such an average QB accomplish so little but get so many accolades and fan support.Sorry but there are better QBs at local parks.
But all he needs is a great OL and good running game. A top WR duo and a receiving threat TE. And a top 10 defense.
You surround Kirk with that and you get past the wild card round every year
How many quarterbacks are great without some/all of those things? How many QBs won a chip without at least some of the things you listed?
I'll be waiting
How many have needed all of them....I will wait.
Every time the team comes up short, its never about Kirk or his contract.
Huh, I thought it was always about Kirk and his contract...
for me, its mostly just his contract. His short comings as a QB could be worked around if we had more cap space to put into upgrading our IOL, as a passer I think he is one of the best out there, but his lack of movement in the pocket, or inability to extend plays really devalues him for me in a todays NFL were the defenders are so much quicker and athletic than most of the OL they face.
Your argument about Kirk's contract makes no sense. Kirk Cousins was the 15th highest paid QB in the NFL this past season. You know what's holding this team back infinitely more than Kirk's contract???? It's the fact that we've drafted like crap and haven't fortifed the OL and DL with quality draft picks.
The biggest irony of this whole kick Kirk to the curb thing is even if the best possible scenario happens and we draft the next Mahomes, THAT QBs contract is going to eat up WAY more of the cap than any Cousins' contract will.
If you don't like Kirk and think he sucks, just say it. Don't hide behind the guise that his contract is somehow holding the Vikings back
I like Kirk as a human, and for the most part as a passer, and no matter how much you try and twist it, thats the truth, you are right, they havent drafted for shit, but his contract this past year wasnt the only one that has held back the team. Him being the highest paid QB in the league for the first 4 years he was here didnt do the roster any favors, giving him contracts that required pushing cap hits out into the future unplayed years are not helping the team make moves to better the roster.
as far as hitting on the next mahomes, they will still have 4 years of cheap QB play to get ready to take on a big contract if he ends up being worth it, but I would suggest that they keep going to that QB pool so they dont get held hostage and end up overpaying for the position, hopefully they can hit on one every 4 years that is able to take the reins if the QB1 gets greedy.
I don't think you answered my question from earlier: With our current cap situation of 42 million cap space, given the likely retirement of Harry, cuts of Davenport, Lynch, Tonga, etc., if we don't save 10-12 million on the QB salary, (going from a top 5 passer to ?), who are we precluded from signing in FA, along with re-signing JJ, DH?
We can still draft QBOTF if he's there. We aren't in cap hell anymore.
give me the list of free agents that will be available when FA starts, the numbers JJ and Hunter want, and I will read the tea leaves for you... but unless they keep kicking the cap can down the road I can be pretty confident in saying that we are not going to be able to sign upgrades on the IOL and IDL, as well as lock down JJ and Hunter, as well as keep Kirk, sign our rookies and fill the other 20 roster spots with anything resembling NFL level talent.
A 2 yr. deal for Kirk is insignificant if he is paid at or a little below market value. By your own math we'd only be saving 10-12 million for a lesser QB and what we save could possibly net an additional mid-level starter. Kirk's short extension won't have any affect on JJ's and Hunter's deals as their big money will probably be backloaded way past the time Kirk is off the books.
I'll say it again, this team isn't in the same cap situation of the last couple years especially if the attrition of a few vets happens as expected. The team has flexibility to do whatever it wants this year in FA. I don't know why you ignore that fact, other than it's been the narrative for so long.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@ FLVike said:
If it were up to some here Cousins would get a lift-time contract. How many chances does this dude get? He couldn't get it done with the BEST WR in the NFL. What's next for Cousins, the Hall of Fame and his number retired?I have never seen such an average QB accomplish so little but get so many accolades and fan support.Sorry but there are better QBs at local parks.
But all he needs is a great OL and good running game. A top WR duo and a receiving threat TE. And a top 10 defense.
You surround Kirk with that and you get past the wild card round every year
How many quarterbacks are great without some/all of those things? How many QBs won a chip without at least some of the things you listed?
I'll be waiting
How many have needed all of them....I will wait.
Every time the team comes up short, its never about Kirk or his contract.
Huh, I thought it was always about Kirk and his contract...
for me, its mostly just his contract. His short comings as a QB could be worked around if we had more cap space to put into upgrading our IOL, as a passer I think he is one of the best out there, but his lack of movement in the pocket, or inability to extend plays really devalues him for me in a todays NFL were the defenders are so much quicker and athletic than most of the OL they face.
Your argument about Kirk's contract makes no sense. Kirk Cousins was the 15th highest paid QB in the NFL this past season. You know what's holding this team back infinitely more than Kirk's contract???? It's the fact that we've drafted like crap and haven't fortifed the OL and DL with quality draft picks.
The biggest irony of this whole kick Kirk to the curb thing is even if the best possible scenario happens and we draft the next Mahomes, THAT QBs contract is going to eat up WAY more of the cap than any Cousins' contract will.
If you don't like Kirk and think he sucks, just say it. Don't hide behind the guise that his contract is somehow holding the Vikings back
I like Kirk as a human, and for the most part as a passer, and no matter how much you try and twist it, thats the truth, you are right, they havent drafted for shit, but his contract this past year wasnt the only one that has held back the team. Him being the highest paid QB in the league for the first 4 years he was here didnt do the roster any favors, giving him contracts that required pushing cap hits out into the future unplayed years are not helping the team make moves to better the roster.
as far as hitting on the next mahomes, they will still have 4 years of cheap QB play to get ready to take on a big contract if he ends up being worth it, but I would suggest that they keep going to that QB pool so they dont get held hostage and end up overpaying for the position, hopefully they can hit on one every 4 years that is able to take the reins if the QB1 gets greedy.
I don't think you answered my question from earlier: With our current cap situation of 42 million cap space, given the likely retirement of Harry, cuts of Davenport, Lynch, Tonga, etc., if we don't save 10-12 million on the QB salary, (going from a top 5 passer to ?), who are we precluded from signing in FA, along with re-signing JJ, DH?
We can still draft QBOTF if he's there. We aren't in cap hell anymore.
give me the list of free agents that will be available when FA starts, the numbers JJ and Hunter want, and I will read the tea leaves for you... but unless they keep kicking the cap can down the road I can be pretty confident in saying that we are not going to be able to sign upgrades on the IOL and IDL, as well as lock down JJ and Hunter, as well as keep Kirk, sign our rookies and fill the other 20 roster spots with anything resembling NFL level talent.
A 2 yr. deal for Kirk is insignificant if he is paid at or a little below market value. By your own math we'd only be saving 10-12 million for a lesser QB and what we save could possibly net an additional mid-level starter. Kirk's short extension won't have any affect on JJ's and Hunter's deals as their big money will probably be backloaded way past the time Kirk is off the books.
I'll say it again, this team isn't in the same cap situation of the last couple years especially if the attrition of a few vets happens as expected. The team has flexibility to do whatever it wants this year in FA. I don't know why you ignore that fact, other than it's been the narrative for so long.
Again with the back loading of deals, that is how we get into cap problems to begin with. Why stretch money in more years where a player won't likely be playing for the team, that is what I am against and that type of cap mismanagement is the only way to keep Kirk, and Hunter, as well as replace those vet attritions with quality players as well as upgrade the areas I've mentioned, the narrative thats been for so long on how to use cap hasn't worked yet with Kirk as QB, why is it suddenly going to work now?
12 million in extra cap can mean huge upgrades at multiple positions of need if the players become available, go look at players average contracts and look at what 4 million more will get you in terms of quality at many positions. Or just fix 2 and add 6 million to what we are currently paying for that position. I am tired of the narrative that its the IOLs fault, or its the Ds fault, fuck it, lets fix those now, so QBOTF has a quality team to work with so there won't be another 5 years of excuses.
Kirk can't elevate a bad OL, he hasn't consistently shown the ability to hang 35 or 40 on the opposing D to make life easier for our defense, so let's change the program. Resigning him without major upgrades is just pissing away cap space and opportunity. It may take a couple years but it will take longer if they don't start now.
Or just keep playing for feel good stats and a maybe a meaningless playoff appearance. The rest of the division has jumped ahead of the Vikes, running back the same team isnt going to close that gap IMO.
I would love to draft Caleb Williams or Drake Maye or Daniels and start him day one. Problem is it will 95% not happen even if we offer the farm
Kirk back on a 1/42 or 2/75 is probably the best outcome we can hope for. Draft 2 friggen QB’s in the 4th round.
This Oline will not be invested further, and its built for Kirk to succeed. Draft the 242 Lb kid from Wisconsin and slam him and CJ into the line 10 times a game and see what happens
Go 1 and 2 with edge and IDL.
If Kirk is back it's for 3 years. No point in even drafting a QB this year as I doubt these clowns can develop anyone as it is.
What team doesn't backload giant contracts? It's the fully guaranteed nature of a contract that can be problematic. We went from 29th in the league in cap space in '22 to 9th in '23. In this case, Kirk's contract would be short enough it wouldn't be backloaded. Again, we lose Harry's salary. There's 15 million. Along with a few other cuts, we can make the upgrades you want with that money. We simply have missed on the FA signings we've made for years. 10-12 million additional cap space isn't the difference between success and failure.
You know as well as I do, this team won't make more than 1 or 2 big FA moves. It's just not done. This team really needs to draft better at the right positions. I'm tired of stockpiling 5th and 6th rounders hoping to beat the odds while pissing away high picks on guys like Cine and Booth.
Name 1 current QB that can elevate a bad OL, let alone consistently hang 35-40 on an opposing D, especially when there's no running game. Despite that reality, Kirk has shown the ability to keep us in games with an absolutely shit defense last year, and the beginning of this year. The defense also went to crap at the end of this year, so it's by no means fixed.
I don't want to run back the same team. I'm fine with replacing the dead wood. I don't want to throw out one of the only strengths this team has at the most important position for someone decidedly worse, which definitely won't close the gap.
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