Quote: @"greediron" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans.
This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.
Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.
I believe that is called purgatory, or better known as mediocrity. Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs, hell it meant little more before that even, how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent? ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last) I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi, break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO, but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.
I get the fan frustration; I was 17 when the Vikings played the Raider for their last SB appearance of that century.
But c'mon James; 13 wins, @ Buffalo, The Colts comeback of our lifetime, taking the Norris Crown from GB, How many last minute wins?
Yah gotta admit, that was a fun ride.
You saw great wins, I saw sheer dumb luck and embarrassing football. I was at that Colts shitshow, only thing worse than our worst half of football was the Colts even worse second half, better game calling by indy and we dont win that one, Buffalo took a fumbled snap in their own end zone, again another mistake by the other team, not something the Vikings forced or did right other than falling on the loose ball, fun in the moment, but in reality just really dumb luck, we had 1 (?) Win last year that we just went out and took care of business ourselves IIRC, the rest were struggles or catching a team in a really bad time,, and that to me wasn't a sign of a good team. Some of those losses were flat out embarrassing and those were against the teams in the playoff contention at the end.
Dumb luck. No doubt the Vikings had their fair share last year. But since you were at the Colts game, you know the Colts did as well. They didn't earn that 33-0 lead with long drives. They were mostly unearned runs. Blocked punt for a TD. A pick six in which the receiver turned the wrong way. Weird shit. Dumb luck.
Did you call it dumb luck the year before too? The year we lost 7 games by one score. 5 games in the final seconds. A mystery fumble by Cook in OT. Bizarre phantom penalties. A year that saw Hunter go down for the 2nd year in a row. A year in which we lost Harry, Cook, and Tomlinson to the Covid list. A year that saw us lose Thielen in the middle of the playoff race. Then Cousins in a must-win game against the Packers. Weird shit. Dumb luck. It goes both ways.
it wasnt dumb luck on the colts part... it was shit play on the Vikings part that led to that lead, dumb luck is a fumbled QB exchange landing at the feet of EK in the endzone, a ball thrown up for grabs and JJ able to make a ridiculous catch, getting the phins on their 3rd sting QB, the saints on the back up. sometimes things just happen, this team wasnt as good as their record indicated last year, I would say by at least 3 or 4 wins, that team was a 9-10 win team, and until I see otherwise this one looks to be the same against the opponents we will face IMO.
Its ok though, you dont have to agree.
The best catch ever wasn't dumb luck. You put it up there for your best player to make a play and he did. There was some luck involved, but not dumb luck. Allen fumbling the snap wasn't dumb luck either. Harrison Phillips made that play by drawing the centers focus right before the snap and then EK saw it and went for it.
And as MB said, the previous year was lots of bad dumb luck.
you have Cousins make that throw 10 more times, he or JJ dont connect on at least 8 of them, lots of luck involved in that play. the recovered fumble, lots of luck that allen wasnt able to just fall on it, or the RB or any of the OL that were right there as well, it didnt get boot away from EK. you can argue Phillips involvement, but the bounce of the ball involves a shit ton of plain ol dumb luck.
I’m pretty sure some of you would be really fun at a party!
Years of frustration has taken a toll on all of us.
But, last season had it all except a Super Bowl win.
Dumb luck, frustration, excitement, come from behind wins. The NFL is entertainment, and if you weren’t entertained, you’re probably impossible to make happy.
Enjoy the ride! Life is too short.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"comet52" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"greediron" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans.
This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.
Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.
I believe that is called purgatory, or better known as mediocrity. Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs, hell it meant little more before that even, how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent? ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last) I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi, break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO, but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.
I know you think the panacea to our misery is a tank and tear down, but I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think we're far FAR more likely to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years doing exactly what we're doing.
Or we could take the Lions/Bears approach. Tear it down, hire a new coach every 3-4 years, a new GM every 8-9 years. Perpetual suck. The Lions superbowl of the last decade was beating the packers and making sure neither got to the playoffs.
When was the last time the team took a big reset season or two? Hardly in the realm of the teams doing it 2 or 3 times a decade.
There is some analytics work out there by Eric Eager that suggests it's easier to reach the top by bottoming out than by sitting in the middle year after year. And I'm sure Kwesi knows this because he drops those hints about it that I mentioned earlier. But fans seem to think that a teardown somehow equates to turning into a perpetually bad franchise.
Those franchises are perpetually bad because of bad ownership that can't hire the right people. I'm not a fan of our owners but they have managed to hire relatively competent people who have kept the team in the middle for 18 years. If Kwesi had free reign to tear this down and make a QBOTF the focus, I'd be all in. But we are where we are with risk-averse ownership whose first priority is cash flow.
I think the misperception is in the idea that the Vikings are "sitting in the middle." I think the '21 Vikings were an 11-win team who lost a couple games they should've won. And the '22 Vikings were an 11-win team who won a couple games they should've lost.
I think we can reasonably expect marginal improvement from both the offense (year two) and the defense (Flores). I think we can also expect some regression to the mean in terms of luck. That means the Vikings win 11 to 13 games, but maybe in a more convincing fashion. But that's legitimate contention and not sitting in the middle, and certainly not a candidate for a tear down.
Well maybe, but you have a QB whose metrics put him in the tier below the top guys. So you need a great D and great everything to compete for a title.
The way the game has evolved, you have to find that top 5 QB if you want to be in it every year for real. Otherwise you are busy in p.r. mode selling various adjectives like "super-competitive" while your team floats up and down mid pack for years on end.
That the squad, which I believe by the Pythagorean metric was 8--9 win rated last year, got lucky early on the way to 13-4, or that it might hit the high side of it's potential this year and win 11 games, doesn't really change the reality that this type of squad is only going to reach an NFCC about once a decade, and reach a SB maybe once in a quarter century. It's the maybe we'll get lucky "strategy" that's been vocally espoused by our owners, and I'm not a fan of it.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"greediron" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans.
This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.
Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.
I believe that is called purgatory, or better known as mediocrity. Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs, hell it meant little more before that even, how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent? ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last) I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi, break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO, but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.
I know you think the panacea to our misery is a tank and tear down, but I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think we're far FAR more likely to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years doing exactly what we're doing.
Or we could take the Lions/Bears approach. Tear it down, hire a new coach every 3-4 years, a new GM every 8-9 years. Perpetual suck. The Lions superbowl of the last decade was beating the packers and making sure neither got to the playoffs.
When was the last time the team took a big reset season or two? Hardly in the realm of the teams doing it 2 or 3 times a decade.
You say big reset, but say not tank. That's a bit ambiguous. So if we were to dump Cousins and Hunter, we have a dump truck of cash, but aren't tanking? If not, are we closer to the elusive QBOF or rebuilding the putrid defense and our interior O-line?
All the money in the world next year isn't buying us a number 1 draft pick, or a long term solution to the other problems mentioned unless we're picking top three.
Quote: @"Riphawkins" said:
I’m pretty sure some of you would be really fun at a party!
Years of frustration has taken a toll on all of us.
But, last season had it all except a Super Bowl win.
Dumb luck, frustration, excitement, come from behind wins. The NFL is entertainment, and if you weren’t entertained, you’re probably impossible to make happy.
Enjoy the ride! Life is too short.
glad you were happy with the result, good for you.
Quote: @"mgobluevikes" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"greediron" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans.
This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.
Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.
I believe that is called purgatory, or better known as mediocrity. Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs, hell it meant little more before that even, how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent? ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last) I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi, break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO, but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.
I know you think the panacea to our misery is a tank and tear down, but I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think we're far FAR more likely to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years doing exactly what we're doing.
Or we could take the Lions/Bears approach. Tear it down, hire a new coach every 3-4 years, a new GM every 8-9 years. Perpetual suck. The Lions superbowl of the last decade was beating the packers and making sure neither got to the playoffs.
When was the last time the team took a big reset season or two? Hardly in the realm of the teams doing it 2 or 3 times a decade.
You say big reset, but say not tank. That's a bit ambiguous. So if we were to dump Cousins and Hunter, we have a dump truck of cash, but aren't tanking? If not, are we closer to the elusive QBOF or rebuilding the putrid defense and our interior O-line?
All the money in the world next year isn't buying us a number 1 draft pick, or a long term solution to the other problems mentioned unless we're picking top three.
Ive been saying address OL an DL first and then go looking for that QB, we arent going to do shit with an Ole interior OL, and DL that is more offensive than defensive. IMO that is our greatest weakness and we keep ignoring it. Tanking is intentionally losing gamse, I say keep playing your best players and making moves to fix your roster, but when faced with a nearly 30 year old DE that wants top money and a long term deal, and 35 year old QB that wants top money and a longer term deal.... maybe its time to move them for draft picks and bring in some bridge talent in the mean time. its to late for this season now, but the "competitive rebuild" is a shit plan IMO as its not a long term improvement, its just a way not get fired quickly IMO. but hey, as long as we can compete in our own shit division and maybe squeak into the playoffs... all good right?
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"mgobluevikes" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"greediron" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans.
This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.
Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.
I believe that is called purgatory, or better known as mediocrity. Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs, hell it meant little more before that even, how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent? ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last) I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi, break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO, but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.
I know you think the panacea to our misery is a tank and tear down, but I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think we're far FAR more likely to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years doing exactly what we're doing.
Or we could take the Lions/Bears approach. Tear it down, hire a new coach every 3-4 years, a new GM every 8-9 years. Perpetual suck. The Lions superbowl of the last decade was beating the packers and making sure neither got to the playoffs.
When was the last time the team took a big reset season or two? Hardly in the realm of the teams doing it 2 or 3 times a decade.
You say big reset, but say not tank. That's a bit ambiguous. So if we were to dump Cousins and Hunter, we have a dump truck of cash, but aren't tanking? If not, are we closer to the elusive QBOF or rebuilding the putrid defense and our interior O-line?
All the money in the world next year isn't buying us a number 1 draft pick, or a long term solution to the other problems mentioned unless we're picking top three.
Ive been saying address OL an DL first and then go looking for that QB, we arent going to do shit with an Ole interior OL, and DL that is more offensive than defensive. IMO that is our greatest weakness and we keep ignoring it. Tanking is intentionally losing gamse, I say keep playing your best players and making moves to fix your roster, but when faced with a nearly 30 year old DE that wants top money and a long term deal, and 35 year old QB that wants top money and a longer term deal.... maybe its time to move them for draft picks and bring in some bridge talent in the mean time. its to late for this season now, but the "competitive rebuild" is a shit plan IMO as its not a long term improvement, its just a way not get fired quickly IMO. but hey, as long as we can compete in our own shit division and maybe squeak into the playoffs... all good right?
I have to agree with Jimmy on this one...but without the bitterness.
Quote: @"ArizonaViking" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"mgobluevikes" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"greediron" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans.
This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.
Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.
I believe that is called purgatory, or better known as mediocrity. Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs, hell it meant little more before that even, how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent? ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last) I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi, break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO, but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.
I know you think the panacea to our misery is a tank and tear down, but I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think we're far FAR more likely to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years doing exactly what we're doing.
Or we could take the Lions/Bears approach. Tear it down, hire a new coach every 3-4 years, a new GM every 8-9 years. Perpetual suck. The Lions superbowl of the last decade was beating the packers and making sure neither got to the playoffs.
When was the last time the team took a big reset season or two? Hardly in the realm of the teams doing it 2 or 3 times a decade.
You say big reset, but say not tank. That's a bit ambiguous. So if we were to dump Cousins and Hunter, we have a dump truck of cash, but aren't tanking? If not, are we closer to the elusive QBOF or rebuilding the putrid defense and our interior O-line?
All the money in the world next year isn't buying us a number 1 draft pick, or a long term solution to the other problems mentioned unless we're picking top three.
Ive been saying address OL an DL first and then go looking for that QB, we arent going to do shit with an Ole interior OL, and DL that is more offensive than defensive. IMO that is our greatest weakness and we keep ignoring it. Tanking is intentionally losing gamse, I say keep playing your best players and making moves to fix your roster, but when faced with a nearly 30 year old DE that wants top money and a long term deal, and 35 year old QB that wants top money and a longer term deal.... maybe its time to move them for draft picks and bring in some bridge talent in the mean time. its to late for this season now, but the "competitive rebuild" is a shit plan IMO as its not a long term improvement, its just a way not get fired quickly IMO. but hey, as long as we can compete in our own shit division and maybe squeak into the playoffs... all good right?
I have to agree with Jimmy on this one...but without the bitterness.
who me?
![[Image: bebf8bc1566d1b8f29fe6811551595d8.gif]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/be/bf/8b/bebf8bc1566d1b8f29fe6811551595d8.gif)
Quote: @"comet52" said:
Goessling pointed out that Kwesi frequently drops hints in pressers about "if we were doing it this other way", a clue that he is somewhat handcuffed due to the "super competitive" edict that comes out of Mark Wilf's mouth every time it opens.
Organizations are as good as the people at the top and don't be confused - the owners dictate the direction the ship sails, not the g.m. or the coach or anyone else. If you're happy with 10-7 and a playoff loss as a goal, then this ownership is perfect for you. Their p.r. says "We wanna win so bad!" but their actions say something entirely different. "We want to maximize profit and be good enough to keep the business revenue rolling." That is goal #1 and always will be. Getting you to buy in like "Oh my Super Bowl here we come" every year in August is their thing, and it works. Fans buy the same story out of ownership year after year, just like Charlie Brown buys that Lucy won't put him on his ass this time around.
Let me get this straight… you’re complaining about having an ownership that (gasp!) wants to be competitive every season? That spends money when money should be spent? Provided one of the best stadiums in the NFL with a gameday experience that is second to none?
Winning a championship isn’t easy. I guess I’m content with the current regime. Maybe you long for the days of Red McCombs?
Quote: @"claykenny" said:
@"comet52" said:
Goessling pointed out that Kwesi frequently drops hints in pressers about "if we were doing it this other way", a clue that he is somewhat handcuffed due to the "super competitive" edict that comes out of Mark Wilf's mouth every time it opens.
Organizations are as good as the people at the top and don't be confused - the owners dictate the direction the ship sails, not the g.m. or the coach or anyone else. If you're happy with 10-7 and a playoff loss as a goal, then this ownership is perfect for you. Their p.r. says "We wanna win so bad!" but their actions say something entirely different. "We want to maximize profit and be good enough to keep the business revenue rolling." That is goal #1 and always will be. Getting you to buy in like "Oh my Super Bowl here we come" every year in August is their thing, and it works. Fans buy the same story out of ownership year after year, just like Charlie Brown buys that Lucy won't put him on his ass this time around.
Let me get this straight… you’re complaining about having an ownership that (gasp!) wants to be competitive every season? That spends money when money should be spent? Provided one of the best stadiums in the NFL with a gameday experience that is second to none?
Winning a championship isn’t easy. I guess I’m content with the current regime. Maybe you long for the days of Red McCombs?
They've had one team in 18 years with a legit chance to win a title (2009). The rest I don't care about, it's just the p.r. they sell you about winning and wanting. At the rate they're going I'll be dead long before they ever win a SB.
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