Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
Granted there are multiple ways to field a super bowl team during the salary cap age. Everyone knows the rookie QB strategy that is highly successful in putting real talent on the field. I think a second approach is have a scheme that elevates ordinary players. For some teams, their schemes are so good that they can easily replace players and not miss a beat. I remember the Broncos o-line scheme being one that did not require phenomenal olinemen. KC can get but with decent wide receivers (partly due to Mahones and partly due to scheme). I think it is important to have a scheme where one positional group can get by with average players for salary cap purposes.
I mention this because it maybe that the former linebacker and linebacker coach, Flores, believes the his creative, blitz heavy scheme does not require superstar linebackers. Yes, of course it would be better with such players but just perhaps the team feels that the scheme will make up for the lack of a superstar.
Just spitballing here, but it is a thought.
Interesting thought. And you're probably right to some degree. Cover two defenses, for example, don't require top cover corners. Just corners who can tackle. Mike Zimmer actually joked once that you can go pick up a cover-two corner at the 7-11 in Bloomington.
It sounds like that what a Flores defense requires most is versatility, which would seem to require knowledge and experience. A bit of a scary thought considering how young this defense is.
This year's Viking team is going to be entertaining, that's for sure.
I should know better than to type this, but it couldn't be worse than last years debacle...
could it? :p
Depends on what you mean by worse I guess. In terms of rankings, I have no idea. I just have a hunch we're going to make a lot of big plays (sacks, turnovers, picks) and we're going to give up a lot of big plays via QBs who know how to take advantage of the blitz and young defenders frequently out of position.
How that shakes out is anyone's guess.
thats how I see it as well, it will be a feast or famine year for D, unfortunately they will face a lot of experienced QB this year so it might be a pretty lean year for those that enjoy watching a dominate Vikings D.
Just my opinion, but the faster we get back to 4-3 football with an emphasis on a dominant defensive line, is when we will see a significant jump and getting back to Minnesota Vikings football. Fuck this 3-4, fancy blitz packages, and flanking out our best passrusjers out into coverage. Look at the top defenses last year; San Francisco, Philly, Dallas, Washington, Buffalo, New Orleans, the Jets...the common theme is they run a 4-3. I know KOC goal is to turn us into the Midwest Rams, but come on! That's not Vikings football
I am not a fan of the 34 either, but it does get more hands in passing lanes at that quick hitter level of the passing game, just as last year though.... we dont have the people to do it right. and this offseason didnt really do much to improve that IMO.
I'd rather see the whole damn thing just scrapped and us go back to 4-3 football. We are trying to emulate everything, and I mean EVERYTHING the Rams ran when KOC was there. Big difference is on defense we don't have Aaron Donald, or Jalen Ramsey, or Von Miller, or any of these otherworldly talents needed to run it successfully. It's why I've always dreaded even the thought of the Vikings moving to a 3-4. We are historically a dominant 4-3 team, the best players on our defense are best suited to play in a 4-3, and you need extremely specific players to run an effective 3-4. Revamping this defense and personal to even get there would be a 3, 4 or 5 year project. While I suspect our secondary play might be improved to some extent, this defense is really going to struggle against the run.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
If we get moderate improvement from the defense, the Vikings should be a playoff team again in 2023. It's hard to see that happening without Hunter.
I see Hunter as a tipping point on the rebuild scale. He's the best player on our defense. One of the truly elite edge rushers in the NFL. And he's only 28. You don't pay a guy like it's really hard to make the argument your rebuild is a "competitive" one.
Agree, especially when we have nothing proven at pass rusher behind him. Wonnum and Patrick Jones are nice players but they don't look like difference makers. The guy out of Army is intriguing but I'd be surprised if he does anything notable his rookie year. Right now our pass rush is questionable, if we trade Hunter it could be a big problem.
Sounds like Wonnum is the one who got Hunter's snaps in OTAs, which is a little surprising to me. I think of PJ2 as the better pass rusher and Wonnum the better run defender.
Hunter is THE key decision of the offseason IMO. The "river" in poker terms. You keep him, the Vikings should be legit contenders. You trade him and they're not. But you might just get the capital you need to draft the QBOTF.
If you trade Hunter at this point, I will have lost a lot of faith in this front office.
It's either keep Hunter, Kirk and press forward to see what noise you can make. Or you take both pieces and move on them this offseason and have capital for a rebuild (cap room, draft picks).
I think they should keep him but I understand if people are disappointed in his lack of game in and out presence
Quote: @Skodin said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
If we get moderate improvement from the defense, the Vikings should be a playoff team again in 2023. It's hard to see that happening without Hunter.
I see Hunter as a tipping point on the rebuild scale. He's the best player on our defense. One of the truly elite edge rushers in the NFL. And he's only 28. You don't pay a guy like it's really hard to make the argument your rebuild is a "competitive" one.
Agree, especially when we have nothing proven at pass rusher behind him. Wonnum and Patrick Jones are nice players but they don't look like difference makers. The guy out of Army is intriguing but I'd be surprised if he does anything notable his rookie year. Right now our pass rush is questionable, if we trade Hunter it could be a big problem.
Sounds like Wonnum is the one who got Hunter's snaps in OTAs, which is a little surprising to me. I think of PJ2 as the better pass rusher and Wonnum the better run defender.
Hunter is THE key decision of the offseason IMO. The "river" in poker terms. You keep him, the Vikings should be legit contenders. You trade him and they're not. But you might just get the capital you need to draft the QBOTF.
If you trade Hunter at this point, I will have lost a lot of faith in this front office.
It's either keep Hunter, Kirk and press forward to see what noise you can make. Or you take both pieces and move on them this offseason and have capital for a rebuild (cap room, draft picks).
I think they should keep him but I understand if people are disappointed in his lack of game in and out presence
This has been my contention all along. You are either trying to compete this upcoming season or you aren't, and it makes zero sense to trade Hunter but keep Cousins, who would be going into the last year of his contract, doesnt figure in long term as a 35 year old QB, and still holds trade value to a competing team like San Francisco.
A couple of things:
If this really is a rebuild year, you don't trade Cousins before you sign JJ. And you hope Brock Purdy's recovery is slowed.
On D. Hunter, you really need to determine if best to trade him a year early then sign him and get rid of him a year late. This regime looks like it leans into getting rid of players a year early then a year late and has spent a lot of time cleaning up the contract situation.
I have no problem going to a 3-4. As for all the playoff teams that run a 4-3, going to a 3-4 is counter-programming. As teams spend most of the year preparing for 4-3 defenses, it makes it harder to prepare for a 3-4. Of course, it has to be a complex 3-4, not a Donatell vanilla 3-4.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
A couple of things:
If this really is a rebuild year, you don't trade Cousins before you sign JJ. And you hope Brock Purdy's recovery is slowed.
On D. Hunter, you really need to determine if best to trade him a year early then sign him and get rid of him a year late. This regime looks like it leans into getting rid of players a year early then a year late and has spent a lot of time cleaning up the contract situation.
I have no problem going to a 3-4. As for all the playoff teams that run a 4-3, going to a 3-4 is counter-programming. As teams spend most of the year preparing for 4-3 defenses, it makes it harder to prepare for a 3-4. Of course, it has to be a complex 3-4, not a Donatell vanilla 3-4.
hell... our team didnt look like it spent all offseason preparing to run a 34 D.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
If we get moderate improvement from the defense, the Vikings should be a playoff team again in 2023. It's hard to see that happening without Hunter.
I see Hunter as a tipping point on the rebuild scale. He's the best player on our defense. One of the truly elite edge rushers in the NFL. And he's only 28. You don't pay a guy like it's really hard to make the argument your rebuild is a "competitive" one.
Agree, especially when we have nothing proven at pass rusher behind him. Wonnum and Patrick Jones are nice players but they don't look like difference makers. The guy out of Army is intriguing but I'd be surprised if he does anything notable his rookie year. Right now our pass rush is questionable, if we trade Hunter it could be a big problem.
Sounds like Wonnum is the one who got Hunter's snaps in OTAs, which is a little surprising to me. I think of PJ2 as the better pass rusher and Wonnum the better run defender.
Hunter is THE key decision of the offseason IMO. The "river" in poker terms. You keep him, the Vikings should be legit contenders. You trade him and they're not. But you might just get the capital you need to draft the QBOTF.
Legit contenders for what? NFC North, maybe, but likely not. NFC, not a chance, Super Bowl, not a chance.
Quote: @Waterboy said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
If we get moderate improvement from the defense, the Vikings should be a playoff team again in 2023. It's hard to see that happening without Hunter.
I see Hunter as a tipping point on the rebuild scale. He's the best player on our defense. One of the truly elite edge rushers in the NFL. And he's only 28. You don't pay a guy like it's really hard to make the argument your rebuild is a "competitive" one.
Agree, especially when we have nothing proven at pass rusher behind him. Wonnum and Patrick Jones are nice players but they don't look like difference makers. The guy out of Army is intriguing but I'd be surprised if he does anything notable his rookie year. Right now our pass rush is questionable, if we trade Hunter it could be a big problem.
Sounds like Wonnum is the one who got Hunter's snaps in OTAs, which is a little surprising to me. I think of PJ2 as the better pass rusher and Wonnum the better run defender.
Hunter is THE key decision of the offseason IMO. The "river" in poker terms. You keep him, the Vikings should be legit contenders. You trade him and they're not. But you might just get the capital you need to draft the QBOTF.
Legit contenders for what? NFC North, maybe, but likely not. NFC, not a chance, Super Bowl, not a chance.
I was just listening to KFAN and the guy filling in for PA was whining about the lack of excitement for the Twins and was talking about how they are leading their division... I think Minnesota sports teams fans are for the most part tired of the hollow victories, division championships and early playoff exits have been done to many times to really get fans excited, most fans know that the team we are seeing isnt being built to league championships, just to keep the average fans engaged and spending money. I think we are getting to that same point with the Vikings, NFC north should be a given with Rogers out in Green Bay, unfortunately they are limping through a rebuild that will only extend the lack of success, and a team like the Lions and or eventually the Bears are going to be in a better position to make a real run than we are. Just damn hard to get excited about minnesota sports these days.
Quote: @Waterboy said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
If we get moderate improvement from the defense, the Vikings should be a playoff team again in 2023. It's hard to see that happening without Hunter.
I see Hunter as a tipping point on the rebuild scale. He's the best player on our defense. One of the truly elite edge rushers in the NFL. And he's only 28. You don't pay a guy like it's really hard to make the argument your rebuild is a "competitive" one.
Agree, especially when we have nothing proven at pass rusher behind him. Wonnum and Patrick Jones are nice players but they don't look like difference makers. The guy out of Army is intriguing but I'd be surprised if he does anything notable his rookie year. Right now our pass rush is questionable, if we trade Hunter it could be a big problem.
Sounds like Wonnum is the one who got Hunter's snaps in OTAs, which is a little surprising to me. I think of PJ2 as the better pass rusher and Wonnum the better run defender.
Hunter is THE key decision of the offseason IMO. The "river" in poker terms. You keep him, the Vikings should be legit contenders. You trade him and they're not. But you might just get the capital you need to draft the QBOTF.
Legit contenders for what? NFC North, maybe, but likely not. NFC, not a chance, Super Bowl, not a chance.
It's going to be a much more competitive division this year. Bucky Brooks over at NFL.com just picked the Packers to win the division with the Vikings coming in 3rd behind the Lions. I just don't see the appeal in mediocrity. If they move Hunter, they should move Cousins as well because retaining him only gets you shallow victories on your way to a 6 or 7 win season. I'd rather sign Carson Wentz to compete with Hall, and let the chips fall where they may. The likely outcome is getting a ton of playing time for our young guys to see if they fit into our long term building, and securing a top 5 draft pick where we might actually have a shot at Caleb Williaks or Drake Maye to lead this franchise into the future. I'm highly skeptical of the "competitive rebuild." It sounds like an idea on par with the "triangle of authority."
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ Waterboy said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
If we get moderate improvement from the defense, the Vikings should be a playoff team again in 2023. It's hard to see that happening without Hunter.
I see Hunter as a tipping point on the rebuild scale. He's the best player on our defense. One of the truly elite edge rushers in the NFL. And he's only 28. You don't pay a guy like it's really hard to make the argument your rebuild is a "competitive" one.
Agree, especially when we have nothing proven at pass rusher behind him. Wonnum and Patrick Jones are nice players but they don't look like difference makers. The guy out of Army is intriguing but I'd be surprised if he does anything notable his rookie year. Right now our pass rush is questionable, if we trade Hunter it could be a big problem.
Sounds like Wonnum is the one who got Hunter's snaps in OTAs, which is a little surprising to me. I think of PJ2 as the better pass rusher and Wonnum the better run defender.
Hunter is THE key decision of the offseason IMO. The "river" in poker terms. You keep him, the Vikings should be legit contenders. You trade him and they're not. But you might just get the capital you need to draft the QBOTF.
Legit contenders for what? NFC North, maybe, but likely not. NFC, not a chance, Super Bowl, not a chance.
It's going to be a much more competitive division this year. Bucky Brooks over at NFL.com just picked the Packers to win the division with the Vikings coming in 3rd behind the Lions. I just don't see the appeal in mediocrity. If they move Hunter, they should move Cousins as well because retaining him only gets you shallow victories on your way to a 6 or 7 win season. I'd rather sign Carson Wentz to compete with Hall, and let the chips fall where they may. The likely outcome is getting a ton of playing time for our young guys to see if they fit into our long term building, and securing a top 5 draft pick where we might actually have a shot at Caleb Williaks or Drake Maye to lead this franchise into the future. I'm highly skeptical of the "competitive rebuild." It sounds like an idea on par with the "triangle of authority."
I think a competitive rebuild only works if you have certain key positions filled... like franchise QB, at Kirks age I dont think we can check that box and as such it should be a matter of going all in for that QBOTF, even if that means moving off Kirk and others before they are all used up. Odds of finding that QB are slim, but they are even slimmer and more expensive when you are drafting from the low 20s, if we are not going to win it all, and are needing major additions to get to the point, then lets git to gittin. lets rip that bandaid off already. of course this is something that should have been done before now to maximize the return IMO. I just find it crazy that the niners havent made a real move to improve their situation.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Waterboy said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
If we get moderate improvement from the defense, the Vikings should be a playoff team again in 2023. It's hard to see that happening without Hunter.
I see Hunter as a tipping point on the rebuild scale. He's the best player on our defense. One of the truly elite edge rushers in the NFL. And he's only 28. You don't pay a guy like it's really hard to make the argument your rebuild is a "competitive" one.
Agree, especially when we have nothing proven at pass rusher behind him. Wonnum and Patrick Jones are nice players but they don't look like difference makers. The guy out of Army is intriguing but I'd be surprised if he does anything notable his rookie year. Right now our pass rush is questionable, if we trade Hunter it could be a big problem.
Sounds like Wonnum is the one who got Hunter's snaps in OTAs, which is a little surprising to me. I think of PJ2 as the better pass rusher and Wonnum the better run defender.
Hunter is THE key decision of the offseason IMO. The "river" in poker terms. You keep him, the Vikings should be legit contenders. You trade him and they're not. But you might just get the capital you need to draft the QBOTF.
Legit contenders for what? NFC North, maybe, but likely not. NFC, not a chance, Super Bowl, not a chance.
It's going to be a much more competitive division this year. Bucky Brooks over at NFL.com just picked the Packers to win the division with the Vikings coming in 3rd behind the Lions. I just don't see the appeal in mediocrity. If they move Hunter, they should move Cousins as well because retaining him only gets you shallow victories on your way to a 6 or 7 win season. I'd rather sign Carson Wentz to compete with Hall, and let the chips fall where they may. The likely outcome is getting a ton of playing time for our young guys to see if they fit into our long term building, and securing a top 5 draft pick where we might actually have a shot at Caleb Williaks or Drake Maye to lead this franchise into the future. I'm highly skeptical of the "competitive rebuild." It sounds like an idea on par with the "triangle of authority."
I think a competitive rebuild only works if you have certain key positions filled... like franchise QB, at Kirks age I dont think we can check that box and as such it should be a matter of going all in for that QBOTF, even if that means moving off Kirk and others before they are all used up. Odds of finding that QB are slim, but they are even slimmer and more expensive when you are drafting from the low 20s, if we are not going to win it all, and are needing major additions to get to the point, then lets git to gittin. lets rip that bandaid off already. of course this is something that should have been done before now to maximize the return IMO. I just find it crazy that the niners havent made a real move to improve their situation.
I could not agree more. Competitive rebuilds only work if you already have a franchise QB in the fold.
Word is the 49ers are expecting Purdy to be ready to start the season. We'll see. I think that is wishful thinking.
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