Quote: @TBro said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
If we're going to judge him on the draft picks then we should also include the UDFA that he brought in. Guys like Pace & Carter would have made fine mid round picks and we were able to sign them without giving up any capital.
I thought the picks themselves were fine. They addressed needs and fortified some positions.
https://twitter.com/Krauserrific/status/...67872?s=20
MB,
I was going to post a separate thread on my issues with Kwesi's draft process but this Twitter Post pretty much sums it up. The one thing I underestimated is how they look at defensive players in a draft evaluation with the priority of Position Versatility over more talented players who only fit one role. I didn't really take that into account and the influence Flores will have in that process as long as he is DC.
My biggest complaint is that Kwesi doesn't understand how to maximize value in trades. This is the second year in a row where we he has failed to get equal or better value back for moving down. Moving down to the end of the 4th and only getting KC's 2024 5th is inexcusable with where that will be positioned after they win another Super Bowl.
Finally, this idea of falling in love with certain players and elevating their value with the assumption every other teams feels the same way is maddening. If you are going to pat yourself on the back for taking a starting caliber RB in McBride in the 7th as an incredible value and talent, than why are you overdrafting players like Blackmon and Ward who you could have gotten later in the draft? It's hypocritical. Kwesi needs to learn how to read the room and maximize our pick value.
I will compliment him on the FA signings. Those are some nice pickups. I did like the trade up to get Roy. I think with some proper coaching by Flores, he will be an impact player before you know it. McBride pretty much confirms the Rumors that they have a June 1st deal in place with the Dolphins to move Cook, or have decided he will be Cut since the Dolphins did draft Achane in the 3rd if that trade doesn't happen or they have no other partners.
I agree with everything here. I think we should've had an extra 1st rounder this year from the Lions in that trade down last year.
Think about how hard it would've been to trade up this year for one of the top QBs. We were talking 23 to maybe 8 or 10. It was mocked by many. Huge, impractical cost involving franchise crippling future 1sts. But the Lions were able to move up from 32 to 12 last year without giving up much of anything. Yeah, that still pisses me off.
The trades this year weren't nearly as bad. But like I said last year Kwesi needs an education in the art of the deal. Like someone mentioned earlier, he needs to use the other teams lust and desire to move up to get their guy against them.
But at the end of the day, the trade comp is nickel and dime compared to the actual picks. And those aren't bad. I think last year's draft will eventually be seen as our best since 2015. And except for the pretty massive reach on Blackmon, I liked all of our picks this year.
Kwesi makes some questionable decisions sometimes in who he drafts or signs in free agency and people here can blow a gasket thinking he is in over his head. The time the team spends prior to the draft getting to know players plays a big part in who they feel fits on the team. Nobody on this board knows what goes on besides seeing who the team selects when they are on the clock. It's part of the draft weekend ritual to come here after the draft and say player X wasn't needed or they should have taken player Y or player Z is written up by talking heads as having undesirable characteristics, why in the hell did they take him. Or maybe it's because I liked this guy better than maybe player Y, or I didn't take him in my mock draft. Sometimes players don't have a good interview or have an attitude that didn't make him a good fit on the team.
Nobody knows what the players are like off the field unless you personally know them and I'm sure nobody on this board personally knows any of the players either selected or passed over.
Maybe it's because some are still butt hurt they hired Kwesi over Poles but so far are the Bears really that much improved than before they cleaned house. Time will tell on that one. The 49er fans probably bitched over the hire of John Lynch having no front office experience and that has turned all right. Not saying Kwesi is equal to Lynch but maybe he will in time.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
To burn through the good will. If this defense isn't rated in the low 20's and we finish behind the Lions in the division this year, his seat is should be red hot. He looks insanely out of touch. The organization doesn't look like it knows where it's going. Like Cleveland of the 80's bad.
Its overreaction season already? I mean, it appears the same people that weren't KAM fans last year (not sure why) were determined to stay that way this year. What can be garnered from any Draft right now? Nothing.
Criticism is fine, it’s a subjective thing, the Draft. Just seems we need to wait and see on this.
We’re all probably racist. I gave Kwesi the initial benefit of the doubt, but am not happy with him making half-hearted moves and getting out-maneuvered for two straight drafts. He may well be great, but on the surface, the two drafts haven’t went down too well.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ TBro said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
If we're going to judge him on the draft picks then we should also include the UDFA that he brought in. Guys like Pace & Carter would have made fine mid round picks and we were able to sign them without giving up any capital.
I thought the picks themselves were fine. They addressed needs and fortified some positions.
https://twitter.com/Krauserrific/status/...67872?s=20
MB,
I was going to post a separate thread on my issues with Kwesi's draft process but this Twitter Post pretty much sums it up. The one thing I underestimated is how they look at defensive players in a draft evaluation with the priority of Position Versatility over more talented players who only fit one role. I didn't really take that into account and the influence Flores will have in that process as long as he is DC.
My biggest complaint is that Kwesi doesn't understand how to maximize value in trades. This is the second year in a row where we he has failed to get equal or better value back for moving down. Moving down to the end of the 4th and only getting KC's 2024 5th is inexcusable with where that will be positioned after they win another Super Bowl.
Finally, this idea of falling in love with certain players and elevating their value with the assumption every other teams feels the same way is maddening. If you are going to pat yourself on the back for taking a starting caliber RB in McBride in the 7th as an incredible value and talent, than why are you overdrafting players like Blackmon and Ward who you could have gotten later in the draft? It's hypocritical. Kwesi needs to learn how to read the room and maximize our pick value.
I will compliment him on the FA signings. Those are some nice pickups. I did like the trade up to get Roy. I think with some proper coaching by Flores, he will be an impact player before you know it. McBride pretty much confirms the Rumors that they have a June 1st deal in place with the Dolphins to move Cook, or have decided he will be Cut since the Dolphins did draft Achane in the 3rd if that trade doesn't happen or they have no other partners.
I agree with everything here. I think we should've had an extra 1st rounder this year from the Lions in that trade down last year.
Think about how hard it would've been to trade up this year for one of the top QBs. We were talking 23 to maybe 8 or 10. It was mocked by many. Huge, impractical cost involving franchise crippling future 1sts. But the Lions were able to move up from 32 to 12 last year without giving up much of anything. Yeah, that still pisses me off.
The trades this year weren't nearly as bad. But like I said last year Kwesi needs an education in the art of the deal. Like someone mentioned earlier, he needs to use the other teams lust and desire to move up to get their guy against them.
But at the end of the day, the trade comp is nickel and dime compared to the actual picks. And those aren't bad. I think last year's draft will eventually be seen as our best since 2015. And except for the pretty massive reach on Blackmon, I liked all of our picks this year.
The only thing that hurts is the Lions offered us the Rams 1st round pick to move up and we took the 2nd that year instead. Imagine having the #6 pick this year? We could have easily moved up to Arizona's pick at #3 to get Richardson if we wanted. But no one could have predicted the Rams would be that bad... but Kwesi learned a painful lesson that a future first can be gold.
But all that's in the past. I'm still not sold on Kwesi, but he didn't do anything in this draft that deserves criticism. We got Addison (should be a starter and a good one at that) and Hock (already a top 5 TE) with our first two picks. If anyone else develops into a starter we had a hell of a draft this year.
I guess I'll say it again for those who keep parroting the "Kwesi gets fleeced every trade": According to the new draft model, Kwesi won the Colts trade, the SF trade was a narrow loss, and the KC trade being a win or loss depends on how you value future picks.
https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value...stTeam=MIN
With SF 87 for 102, 164, 222
Chiefs 119 for 134, 2024 5th
Colts 141 for 158, 211
Yes, Kwesi got taken behind the woodshed last year by Detroit. But that did not happen this year.
Quote: @RS Express said:
I guess I'll say it again for those who keep parroting the "Kwesi gets fleeced every trade": According to the new draft model, Kwesi won the Colts trade, the SF trade was a narrow loss, and the KC trade being a win or loss depends on how you value future picks.
https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value...stTeam=MIN
With SF 87 for 102, 164, 222
Chiefs 119 for 134, 2024 5th
Colts 141 for 158, 211
Yes, Kwesi got taken behind the woodshed last year by Detroit. But that did not happen this year.
Ok but -1 + 0 still equals -1
at what point did trading down ever cost more than trading up?
KAM is a nice guy and is still finishing last.Please make a post or a thread when we trade up 20 spots in the first round for a handful of peanuts, then you can say anything you want about him and we all will agree.
Quote: @RS Express said:
I guess I'll say it again for those who keep parroting the "Kwesi gets fleeced every trade": According to the new draft model, Kwesi won the Colts trade, the SF trade was a narrow loss, and the KC trade being a win or loss depends on how you value future picks.
https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value...stTeam=MIN
With SF 87 for 102, 164, 222
Chiefs 119 for 134, 2024 5th
Colts 141 for 158, 211
Yes, Kwesi got taken behind the woodshed last year by Detroit. But that did not happen this year.
What a simpleton way to grade the trades. It’s whether you’re getting your targets and how good your evaluation of talent is. Kwesi has proven nothing on that level at this point. The book is not closed on anything, but I think a fair evaluation would say the initial two drafts look to be somewhat underwhelming on paper in addition to the impact on the field from Kwesi’s initial draft.
Quote: @Waterboy said:
@ RS Express said:
I guess I'll say it again for those who keep parroting the "Kwesi gets fleeced every trade": According to the new draft model, Kwesi won the Colts trade, the SF trade was a narrow loss, and the KC trade being a win or loss depends on how you value future picks.
https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value...stTeam=MIN
With SF 87 for 102, 164, 222
Chiefs 119 for 134, 2024 5th
Colts 141 for 158, 211
Yes, Kwesi got taken behind the woodshed last year by Detroit. But that did not happen this year.
What a simpleton way to grade the trades. It’s whether you’re getting your targets and how good your evaluation of talent is. Kwesi has proven nothing on that level at this point. The book is not closed on anything, but I think a fair evaluation would say the initial two drafts look to be somewhat underwhelming on paper in addition to the impact on the field from Kwesi’s initial draft.
Have to love a post like this! Comes right out of the chute with an insult to a personal opinion. Why couldn't you be a reasonable human being and say, according to the way I grade the trades I see it differently?
You said." I think a fair evaluation would say the initial two drafts look to be somewhat underwhelming on paper in addition to the impact on the field from Kwesi’s initial draft."
A fair evaluation by who? You?
What does underwhelming on paper mean? You disapprove? You attempt to back this up by adding the phrase, in addition to the impact on the field the initial draft. How does that support your argument this draft was underwhelming?
The initial draft was disappointing only in the fact that his top two draft choices weren't on the field due to injury for the most part. Does that make them bad picks?
In addition, Ingram took most of the season to develop, but became the best interior offensive lineman the last few games, and appears to have potential to be a good player for some time to come.
How about we let these guys play before we critique their impact on the field rather than insulting posters on this board who have a different view?
Let's face it, Kwesi was an outside the box, taking a chance kind of hire in the first place. I'm just not a believer in handing the keys over to a guy who wasn't a former player or has a scouting background and I was not in favor of his hire. His first offseason was an almost total bust between signing guys who made little to no impact on a defense that was one of the worst units in the league from a talent standpoint or making trades that didn't work out (Reagor, Blacklock). Zadarius was good for half a season, got injured which is his M.O., and is on his way out the door here at some point. Kwesi was absolutely fleeced repeatedly in draft value in his first draft and the players he selected made almost zero impact, unless we count Ingram's season of average to below average play. If you want to give him credit for hiring KOC, cool, but you also have to acknowledge the decision to bring in Ed Donatell to run the defense and oversee the total transition to a new scheme was just one of theeee worst decisions ever and completely predictable to be the disaster that it was. I thought Kwesi really needed a big draft to overcome the shit show of last offseason and I was okay with this draft. I would have taken some different players at certain spots, but that doesn't mean I didn't like the players that we did select. The bottom line for me is that I just do not agree with the way they do the business of roster building and I'm not sure what the long-term vision is. Kwesi has an uphill battle in trying to manage the Wilf's expectations while trying to keep the roster talented enough to contend. I don't know. This upcoming year is going to be very telling in where this franchise is headed in the future.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Let's face it, Kwesi was an outside the box, taking a chance kind of hire in the first place. I'm just not a believer in handing the keys over to a guy who wasn't a former player or has a scouting background and I was not in favor of his hire. His first offseason was an almost total bust between signing guys who made little to no impact on a defense that was one of the worst units in the league from a talent standpoint or making trades that didn't work out (Reagor, Blacklock). Zadarius was good for half a season, got injured which is his M.O., and is on his way out the door here at some point. Kwesi was absolutely fleeced repeatedly in draft value in his first draft and the players he selected made almost zero impact, unless we count Ingram's season of average to below average play. If you want to give him credit for hiring KOC, cool, but you also have to acknowledge the decision to bring in Ed Donatell to run the defense and oversee the total transition to a new scheme was just one of theeee worst decisions ever and completely predictable to be the disaster that it was. I thought Kwesi really needed a big draft to overcome the shit show of last offseason and I was okay with this draft. I would have taken some different players at certain spots, but that doesn't mean I didn't like the players that we did select. The bottom line for me is that I just do not agree with the way they do the business of roster building and I'm not sure what the long-term vision is. Kwesi has an uphill battle in trying to manage the Wilf's expectations while trying to keep the roster talented enough to contend. I don't know. This upcoming year is going to be very telling in where this franchise is headed in the future.
Well stated, I totally agree, couldn't have said it better.
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