Forgive student debt, yes or no?

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@Skodin said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:
I am torn by practicality vs emotional as my kid has student loans to pay-back. 

That said, we sheltered her from the debt being crushing by scrimping/saving and prioritizing a college education for our kid when we were younger and both working full time.  We wanted her to have some skin in the game and hence some college debt.

A large part of the problem is costs and its really up to the universities and higher order institutions to reign costs in so these kids lives aren't challenged and changed for literally decades. 

Biden has a political promise to keep ; so that's what he's doing right now. Whether it helps him down the road remains to be seen. 

My daughter is an RN,  it wasnt her first career choice,  but when  we sat her down and showed her starting teacher pay vs the cost to get that degree and the costs of getting her RN and the pay scale and opportunities that come with that degree,  she decided that the math didnt work to become a math teacher.  More kids need to look at the math before committing to the debt,  its not different than home loans, car loans, or anything else.   we all likely had other dreams we would have preferred to chase,  but most of us had the foresight to face the realities of the costs of chasing those dreams and chose better paths.  We have a massive shortage in many well paying fields that dont require mountains of debt to get a degree to work in them,  IMO the direction should be to get more kids to look at these fields,  even if its just a temporary pay check to be able to afford to chase their dream degree debt free.  I empathize with those that have debt,  any debt,  regardless of the type of debt,  I have been there, but I dont feel obligate to pay their debt for them,  if they took on the debt,  they can work off the debt,  thats part of being an adult.

Maybe Biden should be a real leader and tackle the damn problem instead of spending billions on more band aids.

Agreed.  Joe should reinstate the rules the Obama admin put regarding predatory loans from For Profit colleges.  The rules that good ole' Betsy DeVos repealed.

Wiping the slate clean for all students?  Absolutely not, but protecting the ones that were fucked by for profit colleges and pushing back on the current academic sector's bloated budget needs, 100%.

what % of the this student loan debt mountain was created by these dastardly for profit colleges, and who held the gun that forced these adults to take the loans to attend these schools?

By adults do you mean anyone over 18? Because not everyone has parents that will sit their kids down and help them make informed financial decisions like you did with your daughter. 18 years old are impulsive, society tells them its college or you are a loser, so they become prey to predatory lending and don't understand the ramifications. 

No empathy then? These are mistakes made by young people that don't know any better (not all, but a decent portion). This black and white world that so many want to live in is so hypocritical. 

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@Skodin said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:
I am torn by practicality vs emotional as my kid has student loans to pay-back. 

That said, we sheltered her from the debt being crushing by scrimping/saving and prioritizing a college education for our kid when we were younger and both working full time.  We wanted her to have some skin in the game and hence some college debt.

A large part of the problem is costs and its really up to the universities and higher order institutions to reign costs in so these kids lives aren't challenged and changed for literally decades. 

Biden has a political promise to keep ; so that's what he's doing right now. Whether it helps him down the road remains to be seen. 

My daughter is an RN,  it wasnt her first career choice,  but when  we sat her down and showed her starting teacher pay vs the cost to get that degree and the costs of getting her RN and the pay scale and opportunities that come with that degree,  she decided that the math didnt work to become a math teacher.  More kids need to look at the math before committing to the debt,  its not different than home loans, car loans, or anything else.   we all likely had other dreams we would have preferred to chase,  but most of us had the foresight to face the realities of the costs of chasing those dreams and chose better paths.  We have a massive shortage in many well paying fields that dont require mountains of debt to get a degree to work in them,  IMO the direction should be to get more kids to look at these fields,  even if its just a temporary pay check to be able to afford to chase their dream degree debt free.  I empathize with those that have debt,  any debt,  regardless of the type of debt,  I have been there, but I dont feel obligate to pay their debt for them,  if they took on the debt,  they can work off the debt,  thats part of being an adult.

Maybe Biden should be a real leader and tackle the damn problem instead of spending billions on more band aids.

Agreed.  Joe should reinstate the rules the Obama admin put regarding predatory loans from For Profit colleges.  The rules that good ole' Betsy DeVos repealed.

Wiping the slate clean for all students?  Absolutely not, but protecting the ones that were fucked by for profit colleges and pushing back on the current academic sector's bloated budget needs, 100%.

what % of the this student loan debt mountain was created by these dastardly for profit colleges, and who held the gun that forced these adults to take the loans to attend these schools?

By adults do you mean anyone over 18? Because not everyone has parents that will sit their kids down and help them make informed financial decisions like you did with your daughter. 18 years old are impulsive, society tells them its college or you are a loser, so they become prey to predatory lending and don't understand the ramifications. 

No empathy then? These are mistakes made by young people that don't know any better (not all, but a decent portion). This black and white world that so many want to live in is so hypocritical. 

so 18 isnt old enough to make personal financial decisions,  but its old enough to decide if you want to join the military?  18 is significantly older than the age that kids are allowed to make life altering decision like gender,  or to have an abortion or not on their own.  If they arent old enough to make those decisions without being viewed as being preyed upon then maybe that is the first part of the correction process is to eliminate student loans for anybody under a certain age?  how old is old enough to be able to make that decision and have the person be accountable for it?

I am all for looking for solutions for the future,  and I know about kids being pushed to do shit they shouldnt do,  but cancelling the current student debt without real reform accomplishes nothing,  its just money spent with no return.  subsidize the interest, make the loans interest free for extended lengths, but cancelling that debt would have to be unilateral to all and IMO that is just not an option.

Side story on having bad people in your ear,  my SIL got a full ride scholorship ( need based scholarships for demand careers in SD )  his parents had just built a new expensive home,  have a very nice farming operation with newer equipment and shit so I am just loving the "need based" aspect,  but anyway right after he gets his full ride scholarship,  the voice in his ear was to still take the student loans out and buy a new truck.... the voice in his ear was his damn mother.  Luckily there was a voice in his other ear and that was my daughter telling him how stupid that would be.  Now I know that there are hardship cases that get lost in these types of scenarios, but I also know that this is not a small % of the debt either.  There are a lot of other options out there for those carrying most of the debt, I dont want to see the govt spend my tax dollars until those other options have been exhausted.  I would go along with taking that money for those IRS commandos,  redirect it to a smaller group of financial people to work with those in trouble and help them find a way to pay off what they can as they can... and then go after the colleges for the rest.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:
and then there is this....  hard to get really sympathetic when colleges are able to roll out the shit they do these days and call it an education.

This doesn't have to do with anything. There's always been bullshit college courses, go online right now and look up any curriculum at any college and you'll find them. What we need now are less stupid memes in our lives.

point is... why should any tax payer be burdened with paying off the debt for others to take shitty courses on subjects that dont give them an employable degree.   and what we need right now is leadership that isnt looking to buy elections with more public debt on the back of the working class.   this is a stupid idea, just as about everything the dems have been pushing for the last decade plus, the repubs arent immune to shitty spending themselves, but the real dumbassery seems to be coming from the left in recent times.

once again,  the only conversation that should be taking place isnt about if we should be paying off these debts with public dollars,  the conversation should be how do we stop future students from getting into the same situations.   we did housing bailouts 14 years ago, and yet we are now once again sitting on another housing bubble ready to pop as people are into homes that they can no longer afford due to the inflation,  lets not repeat the same wasteful approach,  lets fix a broken system to prevent it from happening again.  but still the answer is the same,  these are adults that took on debt without considering the real consequences of their action,  rewarding bad choices is not a smart use of tax dollars,  especially when it is nothing more than an campaign ploy.  IMO this is not something Biden should be able to do without congressional action and hopefully it gets shot down soon.

This is highly irresponsible pandering for votes particularly with the Country in or near Recession.  You think debt servicing is bad now....just start adding all these spending programs and see what happens to bond rates.  There's no legitimate case to be made to do this and it will place an unfair burden on others and doesn't fix underlying systemic issues with the price of post secondary education.

Some points:

1) What's unique about the people that qualify for loan relief that requires the Country to pay off at least a portion of their debt?  For those of us that paid our student debt previously, we'll bear our portion of the costs.  Those that made a conscious decision to forego college due to the cost...they'll also bear a portion of the costs.  How about those in college now or those that will be going to college...yep...they'll bear their portion of the others education costs as well.  The student loan interest moratorium has already given these current loan holders relief that nobody else had...and what's the justification?  If we had double digit unemployment and people were burdened with interest debt and tough job prospects it would be one thing...but that isn't the case.  Employers can't find people to hire...so again what's the justification to relieve interest? 

2) Here's a news flash...some kids shouldn't go to college.  If you get B and C grades in high school...what are realistic expectations in college for a degree that will put you in position to pay off student debt? There's lots of relatively high paying jobs in the trades.  It's honest work.  Let's quit putting the scarlet letter on those people.  

3) Somebody mentioned "Free College".  The countries that have that type of program come with serious restrictions.  If your high school grades or college grades aren't up to snuff...you're eliminated from the program and forced to abandon your college hopes...unless your family has money and can send you to one of the for profit institutions or ship them elsewhere.   Graduate level education is often excluded and degree programs are based on job prospects.  I remember stopping by the Occupy camp here in Madison while they were going on...just to see what they really wanted.  The first person I talked to wanted his college paid for.  I asked why?  He told me that he was over $100k in debt and job prospects were grim in his field of study so he really had no way to pay for his education.  His degree choice?  He had a PhD in Medieval Studies.  I asked him why he chose that route as clearly his job prospects were extremely limited especially in the US to basically teaching or working the Renaissance Festival two weeks per year.  Clearly he had to know that it was a financially losing proposition.  He told me that he really enjoyed the field of study.  I than told him that there were a lot of things that I enjoy...but I didn't want him to pay for them.  Should we all pay for bad decisions by others?  Let's eliminate or dramatically reduce some of these programs that won't pay enough to cover education costs...or require work in kind to reduce the aggregate cost over the 4 years.

 

[Guest]

@AGRforever said:
Housing is up roughly the same 1200% and I dont see anyone rushing to pay my mortgage. 

"as of this morning, my mortgage has now identified as a a student loan"  

@JimmyinSD said:
point is... why should any tax payer be burdened with paying off the debt for others to take shitty courses on subjects that dont give them an employable degree.   

This concept (forgiving student loans) is grotesque.  

The GALL...college institutions that do NOTHING, but SLAM AMERICAN  economic free-enterprise values...& then profit prolifically by such values (via endowments & skyrocketing tuition) ...now try to "hail mary" against an epically losing election cycle...with this. 

I guess when you can't socialize medicine, you socialize education.  

[Guest]

lower tuition.

problem solved

[Guest]

@savannahskol said:

@AGRforever said:
Housing is up roughly the same 1200% and I dont see anyone rushing to pay my mortgage. 

"as of this morning, my mortgage has now identified as a a student loan"  

@JimmyinSD said:
point is... why should any tax payer be burdened with paying off the debt for others to take shitty courses on subjects that dont give them an employable degree.   

This concept (forgiving student loans) is grotesque.  

The GALL...college institutions that do NOTHING, but SLAM AMERICAN  economic free-enterprise values...& then profit prolifically by such values (via endowments & skyrocketing tuition) ...now try to "hail mary" against an epically losing election cycle...with this. 

I guess when you can't socialize medicine, you socialize education.  

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/15...0866267138

https://twitter.com/cbouzy/status/1562929592670773253

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@savannahskol said:

@AGRforever said:
Housing is up roughly the same 1200% and I dont see anyone rushing to pay my mortgage. 

"as of this morning, my mortgage has now identified as a a student loan"  

@JimmyinSD said:
point is... why should any tax payer be burdened with paying off the debt for others to take shitty courses on subjects that dont give them an employable degree.   

This concept (forgiving student loans) is grotesque.  

The GALL...college institutions that do NOTHING, but SLAM AMERICAN  economic free-enterprise values...& then profit prolifically by such values (via endowments & skyrocketing tuition) ...now try to "hail mary" against an epically losing election cycle...with this. 

I guess when you can't socialize medicine, you socialize education.  

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/15...0866267138

Lets be honest about PPP. Those “loans” were direct stimulus which were never intended to be be paid back from the word go.  They were for employeers to keep businesses from shutting their doors permanently after the .gov required them to shut their doors for +2 months. 

I’m quite sure there was plenty of abuse in the system. I’m quite sure there were businesses that would have survived without them. I’m also quite sure there wouldn’t be an economy left without them because so many businesses would have closed. This would have caused a domino effect and we’d be living in a vert very different world. 

College students chose their debt

Business owners didnt choose
covid/mandatory shutdowns. 

[Guest]

@AGRforever said:

@StickyBun said:

@savannahskol said:

@AGRforever said:
Housing is up roughly the same 1200% and I dont see anyone rushing to pay my mortgage. 

"as of this morning, my mortgage has now identified as a a student loan"  

@JimmyinSD said:
point is... why should any tax payer be burdened with paying off the debt for others to take shitty courses on subjects that dont give them an employable degree.   

This concept (forgiving student loans) is grotesque.  

The GALL...college institutions that do NOTHING, but SLAM AMERICAN  economic free-enterprise values...& then profit prolifically by such values (via endowments & skyrocketing tuition) ...now try to "hail mary" against an epically losing election cycle...with this. 

I guess when you can't socialize medicine, you socialize education.  

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/15...0866267138

Lets be honest about PPP. Those “loans” were direct stimulus which were never intended to be be paid back from the word go.  They were for employeers to keep businesses from shutting their doors permanently after the .gov required them to shut their doors for +2 months. 

I’m quite sure there was plenty of abuse in the system. I’m quite sure there were businesses that would have survived without them. I’m also quite sure there wouldn’t be an economy left without them because so many businesses would have closed. This would have caused a domino effect and we’d be living in a vert very different world. 

College students chose their debt

Business owners didnt choose
covid/mandatory shutdowns. 

Gotcha. Appreciate the rationalization, er....I mean explanation. 

[Guest]

I don't know if its available but I'd guess the lion's share of Mrs Greene's PPP went to employees?  With some going towards utilities?  That was the point of the of the stimulus.  To keep employee's employed when there wasn't work for them because the doors were shut. 

[Guest]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...s-mistake/