Some Draft Grades:

[Guest]

@minny65 said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@supafreak84 said:
Walter football with some post draft knee jerk alarmist stuff. They must not know Kwesi and his 8 years of analytics experience is the smartest man in football...First-Day Winners

•  Detroit Lions
  
   Aidan Hutchinson, DE, Michigan
   Jameson Williams, WR, Alabama
  
  When you have two first-round picks, it can be easy to look good, and Detroit did that. The Lions, however, went above and beyond with a brilliant trade-up in the first round. At No. 2 overall, they landed a long-term feature edge rusher in Aidan Hutchinson to build their team around. Many other franchises viewed Hutchinson as the safest pick in the 2022 NFL Draft.
  
  When the 12th pick rolled around, it was shocking to see Detroit pop up on the clock. They absolutely ripped off the Vikings in trading up 20 spots and essentially only giving up a third-round pick. The Lions then used the 12th pick to take Williams, a speedster who could be their long-term No. 1 receiver, and add a game breaker to their offense. The Lions were a big rebuilding project when they hired general manager Brad Holmes and head coach Dan Campbell. After two drafts, they are off to a great start, adding premium talents with first-round picks Penei Sewell, Aidan Hutchinson and Jameson Williams.
  

First-Day Losers

•  Minnesota Vikings
  
   Lewis Cine, C, Georgia
  
  The Vikings aren't losers because of their selection of Cine. He is a tough safety who is well-rounded and looks like a very safe choice to turn into a good starter. Minnesota took Cine with the 32nd pick, however, because the organization's trade down with the Lions was horrific, letting Detroit general manager Brad Holmes take the Vikings to the cleaners. Detroit jumped up from No. 32 to No. 12 and the only additional pick Minnesota really got for that massive drop down was a third-rounder. The second-round pick moved up 10 spots, which ended up being minimal. The Vikings dropping 20 spots in the first round would typically cost at least a first-round pick in the next year's draft, if not more.
  
  On top of the trade being lopsided from a value perspective, the Vikings helped a division rival get a potential No. 1 wide receiver and game breaker in Jameson Williams. Williams is a speed demon with rare explosive playmaking ability. Helping the Lions to acquire him and now having to cover Williams twice a year for many years to come are both inexcusable. The trade was an awful start for the new regime and rookie general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah.

Do you think this is somehow validation for your opinion? I can post other links that show the opposite, that the Vikings draft was perceived as very good.

Never said KAM is/was beyond reproach, not sure anyone is saying that. But you're saying it 100% definitively sucks, which we have no idea about yet. And why did you throw Biden in at the end of your little rant, lol? 

It's just further validation that there are plenty of others out there who were also skeptical of the draft and how it was conducted by a man who was a skeptical hire in the first place. Sure we are all forced to wait it out to see how it plays out, but that doesn't change the surface perception that a lot of dumb moves were made by the new golden boy. If it all miraculously turns out in our favor down the line, I'll never criticize the man again, but this has been a real lackluster first offseason capped by a draft littered with questionable moves. If "the plan" is to shuffle the cap every offseason to keep Cousins and kick the can down the road, sign lower tier free agents, and get absolutely raped in draft compensation by our division rivals while trying to be smarter then everybody else...then the plan 100% definitively sucks. 

The Biden reference was just for the blind squirrels who believe that just because he's in charge that he must be smarter then everybody else and knows what he's doing, ala Kwesi. That's certainly not the case with our moron in Chief, and might not be the case with Kwesi either..so it's okay to be critical of questionable decisions. I mean this is still a message board last time I checked. If that's changed let me know.  

I also think this offseason has been lackluster overall.  Please keep politics and non-support of our President out of this football site, Thanks!

Just using it as an example that blind allegiance without substance or questioning is a fools mindset. 

Believe me, as much as I've been critical of this offseason there's probably nobody who wants this to all work out more then me. I've suffered with this franchise since the 80's and I'm just tired of mediocrity. I want a winner and to see just one Super Bowl in my lifetime. I've never even seen this team make the big dance and am in my mid 40's. When I see more of the same it's frustrating and this offseason has certainly been "more of the same" and it makes me extremely apprehensive towards the front office from the Wilfs, to Kwesi, on down to the new coaching staff. It's almost like everything they've done, it could be argued that it made more sense to do the opposite. The draft was the proverbial cherry on top for me. We'll see how it shakes out, but on face value I can't say definitively that we are a better team then we were last year and that's a tough pick to swallow. 

[Guest]

@supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

[Guest]

@Wetlander said:
@supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

Oh for sure on comparing our offseason with Kwesi vs Poles in Chicago.  I think our offseason has been pretty lackluster and on par as if Spelly were still here and sticking with Kirk (extension again).  Although no way Spelly gets outdone with that 12th pick trade down with his brothers team in Detroit .

The Bears offseason has been brutal (I will add the disclaimer-we won't know anything until year 3 since everyone needs to be reminded that none of us know jack and this is a discussion board not a panel of rocket scientists or NFL GM's.  Poles has done very little to help Fields, in fact it looks like the OL and WR core are worse. Yikes.  They look to be backing up to get a running start and might be the worst team in the NFC.  That said, we better f'in beat them twice this year!!!!

[Guest]

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@supafreak84 said:
Walter football with some post draft knee jerk alarmist stuff. They must not know Kwesi and his 8 years of analytics experience is the smartest man in football...First-Day Winners

•  Detroit Lions
  
   Aidan Hutchinson, DE, Michigan
   Jameson Williams, WR, Alabama
  
  When you have two first-round picks, it can be easy to look good, and Detroit did that. The Lions, however, went above and beyond with a brilliant trade-up in the first round. At No. 2 overall, they landed a long-term feature edge rusher in Aidan Hutchinson to build their team around. Many other franchises viewed Hutchinson as the safest pick in the 2022 NFL Draft.
  
  When the 12th pick rolled around, it was shocking to see Detroit pop up on the clock. They absolutely ripped off the Vikings in trading up 20 spots and essentially only giving up a third-round pick. The Lions then used the 12th pick to take Williams, a speedster who could be their long-term No. 1 receiver, and add a game breaker to their offense. The Lions were a big rebuilding project when they hired general manager Brad Holmes and head coach Dan Campbell. After two drafts, they are off to a great start, adding premium talents with first-round picks Penei Sewell, Aidan Hutchinson and Jameson Williams.
  

First-Day Losers

•  Minnesota Vikings
  
   Lewis Cine, C, Georgia
  
  The Vikings aren't losers because of their selection of Cine. He is a tough safety who is well-rounded and looks like a very safe choice to turn into a good starter. Minnesota took Cine with the 32nd pick, however, because the organization's trade down with the Lions was horrific, letting Detroit general manager Brad Holmes take the Vikings to the cleaners. Detroit jumped up from No. 32 to No. 12 and the only additional pick Minnesota really got for that massive drop down was a third-rounder. The second-round pick moved up 10 spots, which ended up being minimal. The Vikings dropping 20 spots in the first round would typically cost at least a first-round pick in the next year's draft, if not more.
  
  On top of the trade being lopsided from a value perspective, the Vikings helped a division rival get a potential No. 1 wide receiver and game breaker in Jameson Williams. Williams is a speed demon with rare explosive playmaking ability. Helping the Lions to acquire him and now having to cover Williams twice a year for many years to come are both inexcusable. The trade was an awful start for the new regime and rookie general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah.

Do you think this is somehow validation for your opinion? I can post other links that show the opposite, that the Vikings draft was perceived as very good.

Never said KAM is/was beyond reproach, not sure anyone is saying that. But you're saying it 100% definitively sucks, which we have no idea about yet. And why did you throw Biden in at the end of your little rant, lol? 

It's just further validation that there are plenty of others out there who were also skeptical of the draft and how it was conducted by a man who was a skeptical hire in the first place. Sure we are all forced to wait it out to see how it plays out, but that doesn't change the surface perception that a lot of dumb moves were made by the new golden boy. If it all miraculously turns out in our favor down the line, I'll never criticize the man again, but this has been a real lackluster first offseason capped by a draft littered with questionable moves. If "the plan" is to shuffle the cap every offseason to keep Cousins and kick the can down the road, sign lower tier free agents, and get absolutely raped in draft compensation by our division rivals while trying to be smarter then everybody else...then the plan 100% definitively sucks. 

The Biden reference was just for the blind squirrels who believe that just because he's in charge that he must be smarter then everybody else and knows what he's doing, ala Kwesi. That's certainly not the case with our moron in Chief, and might not be the case with Kwesi either..so it's okay to be critical of questionable decisions. I mean this is still a message board last time I checked. If that's changed let me know.  

Who's the 'golden boy'? I think there has been plenty of questioning of the round 1 trade....by almost everyone on the board. It isn't about you or anyone else being 'critical'....you're way beyond that. Whether you see it or not. And you keep grabbing more crap to add to your rants (Biden, Cousins, etc.) about KAM. It is a message board and I'm calling it like I see it as well....and I see you as a dog with a bone.

[Guest]

@Wetlander said:
@supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

It's funny, I was hoping we WOULDN'T see something different. Not only was Spielman one of the better drafting GMs in the NFL, he was also unafraid to maneuver around the draft to achieve the best value. My fear was the the rookie GM wouldn't be able to pull the trigger. Or wouldn't have the established relationships necessary to pull off a trade. But he danced around the draft like a boss. That bodes well for the future. Now, we just need him to hold out for a little more in return when he's trading a top 12 pick. 

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@supafreak84 said:
Walter football with some post draft knee jerk alarmist stuff. They must not know Kwesi and his 8 years of analytics experience is the smartest man in football...First-Day Winners

•  Detroit Lions
  
   Aidan Hutchinson, DE, Michigan
   Jameson Williams, WR, Alabama
  
  When you have two first-round picks, it can be easy to look good, and Detroit did that. The Lions, however, went above and beyond with a brilliant trade-up in the first round. At No. 2 overall, they landed a long-term feature edge rusher in Aidan Hutchinson to build their team around. Many other franchises viewed Hutchinson as the safest pick in the 2022 NFL Draft.
  
  When the 12th pick rolled around, it was shocking to see Detroit pop up on the clock. They absolutely ripped off the Vikings in trading up 20 spots and essentially only giving up a third-round pick. The Lions then used the 12th pick to take Williams, a speedster who could be their long-term No. 1 receiver, and add a game breaker to their offense. The Lions were a big rebuilding project when they hired general manager Brad Holmes and head coach Dan Campbell. After two drafts, they are off to a great start, adding premium talents with first-round picks Penei Sewell, Aidan Hutchinson and Jameson Williams.
  

First-Day Losers

•  Minnesota Vikings
  
   Lewis Cine, C, Georgia
  
  The Vikings aren't losers because of their selection of Cine. He is a tough safety who is well-rounded and looks like a very safe choice to turn into a good starter. Minnesota took Cine with the 32nd pick, however, because the organization's trade down with the Lions was horrific, letting Detroit general manager Brad Holmes take the Vikings to the cleaners. Detroit jumped up from No. 32 to No. 12 and the only additional pick Minnesota really got for that massive drop down was a third-rounder. The second-round pick moved up 10 spots, which ended up being minimal. The Vikings dropping 20 spots in the first round would typically cost at least a first-round pick in the next year's draft, if not more.
  
  On top of the trade being lopsided from a value perspective, the Vikings helped a division rival get a potential No. 1 wide receiver and game breaker in Jameson Williams. Williams is a speed demon with rare explosive playmaking ability. Helping the Lions to acquire him and now having to cover Williams twice a year for many years to come are both inexcusable. The trade was an awful start for the new regime and rookie general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah.

Do you think this is somehow validation for your opinion? I can post other links that show the opposite, that the Vikings draft was perceived as very good.

Never said KAM is/was beyond reproach, not sure anyone is saying that. But you're saying it 100% definitively sucks, which we have no idea about yet. And why did you throw Biden in at the end of your little rant, lol? 

It's just further validation that there are plenty of others out there who were also skeptical of the draft and how it was conducted by a man who was a skeptical hire in the first place. Sure we are all forced to wait it out to see how it plays out, but that doesn't change the surface perception that a lot of dumb moves were made by the new golden boy. If it all miraculously turns out in our favor down the line, I'll never criticize the man again, but this has been a real lackluster first offseason capped by a draft littered with questionable moves. If "the plan" is to shuffle the cap every offseason to keep Cousins and kick the can down the road, sign lower tier free agents, and get absolutely raped in draft compensation by our division rivals while trying to be smarter then everybody else...then the plan 100% definitively sucks. 

The Biden reference was just for the blind squirrels who believe that just because he's in charge that he must be smarter then everybody else and knows what he's doing, ala Kwesi. That's certainly not the case with our moron in Chief, and might not be the case with Kwesi either..so it's okay to be critical of questionable decisions. I mean this is still a message board last time I checked. If that's changed let me know.  

Who's the 'golden boy'? I think there has been plenty of questioning of the round 1 trade....by almost everyone on the board. It isn't about you or anyone else being 'critical'....you're way beyond that. Whether you see it or not. And you keep grabbing more crap to add to your rants (Biden, Cousins, etc.) about KAM. It is a message board and I'm calling it like I see it as well....and I see you as a dog with a bone.

If questioning and being critical of the new guy in charge (after I was critical of his hiring) makes me a dog with a bone...then so be it I suppose lol. Whatever floats your boat Sticky...

[Guest]

I think this is right following the picks: 

Cine, Booth, Ingram, Asamoah for;

Williams,Watson, Pierce, Raimann, Ogletree. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@Wetlander said:
@supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

It's funny, I was hoping we WOULDN'T see something different. Not only was Spielman one of the better drafting GMs in the NFL, he was also unafraid to maneuver around the draft to achieve the best value. My fear was the the rookie GM wouldn't be able to pull the trigger. Or wouldn't have the established relationships necessary to pull off a trade. But he danced around the draft like a boss. That bodes well for the future. Now, we just need him to hold out for a little more in return when he's trading a top 12 pick. 

He danced around the draft "like a boss?!" Maroon, you are a draft guy, so I'm a little confused about that statement. We were absolutely fleeced by the Lions in a massive trade down. The Packers trade was a little better value wise but we still allowed our biggest rival to move way up into our pick in the second round to draft the WR they wanted and badly needed. We had to give up more picks to move back up in the round to grab Booth when corners started flying off the board. So the relationships that were formed in trading down with division rivals were that these GM's now know they can maneuver with us within the division for market value or below market value compensation. That's not a good thing, and speaking of Spielman, something he never would have went for with a rival unless the compensation was overwhelmingly in our favor. Outside of some of these Mike Tice era drafts, this was probably the strangest, most head scratching drafts I've ever witnessed as a Vikings fan. But hey, I guess I'm a dog with a bone...so there's that 

Also, every GM in the league will be calling him next year trying to move up in the draft. The standard has been set and every team in the league will be looking to fleece us. My only fear is that Kwesi actually believes the crap he's selling himself and continues to make these kind of moves. 

[Guest]

Yea I think Kwesi showed his inexperience with the initial trade down and I really don't think Spelly would have been fleeced there.  But I expected some bumps and bruises along the way with a new GM just like I expect some bumps and bruises with our new inexperienced HC - KOC.   I certainly wouldn't say Kwesi moved around "like a boss" unless just moving around for the sake of moving around makes you a boss   I think Kwesi could have done better and I think Spelly would have.  At the end of the day if you told me we got Booth and Cine (in any order) I would say not bad.  I like Booth.  Not of fan of Ingram or the tweener will LB.  Good recoup with GB to get Booth - IMO - but still just OK overall grade on Kwesi from me (I hope he can sleep at night knowing my opinion).  

Again, a very hoo hum offseason, especially when you have a whole new regime.  Very similar to status quo - IMO.  The more things change the more things stay the same   

[Guest]

@supafreak84 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@Wetlander said:
@supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

It's funny, I was hoping we WOULDN'T see something different. Not only was Spielman one of the better drafting GMs in the NFL, he was also unafraid to maneuver around the draft to achieve the best value. My fear was the the rookie GM wouldn't be able to pull the trigger. Or wouldn't have the established relationships necessary to pull off a trade. But he danced around the draft like a boss. That bodes well for the future. Now, we just need him to hold out for a little more in return when he's trading a top 12 pick. 

He danced around the draft "like a boss?!" Maroon, you are a draft guy, so I'm a little confused about that statement. We were absolutely fleeced by the Lions in a massive trade down. The Packers trade was a little better value wise but we still allowed our biggest rival to move way up into our pick in the second round to draft the WR they wanted and badly needed. We had to give up more picks to move back up in the round to grab Booth when corners started flying off the board. So the relationships that were formed in trading down with division rivals were that these GM's now know they can maneuver with us within the division for market value or below market value compensation. That's not a good thing, and speaking of Spielman, something he never would have went for with a rival unless the compensation was overwhelmingly in our favor. Outside of some of these Mike Tice era drafts, this was probably the strangest, most head scratching drafts I've ever witnessed as a Vikings fan. But hey, I guess I'm a dog with a bone...so there's that 

-----

Yeah, I don't see it that way at all. I think I've made myself clear that I thought the trade down with the Lions could've, SHOULD'VE resulted in more for us. But, as I've also said repeatedly, that's where my problem with the draft ended. Really happy with the players we drafted and the way Kwesi maneuvered around the draft to achieve optimum value. 

For example, the move you didn't like to get Booth was exactly the kind of maneuvering I'm talking about. Everyone thinks teams target players. They typically don't outside the top 10. They target TIERS of players. I suspect the Vikings, like most of us, had McCreary, Gordon and Booth in a tier together. After Gordon went off the board, I told my son "now, if this were Rick, he would use some of that draft capital we just got and trade up here to get Booth." About 10 minutes later, Kwesi did exactly that. That was a move that made me realize we're in pretty good hands after having serious doubts about that on Thursday night. 

And as I've said before, I have no trouble trading within the division. If you're confident you're making a good trade, who cares what team you screwed over. If you're worried YOU are the one that got screwed, you probably shouldn't be trading in the first place.