Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ RS Express said:
Turns out is fake news. My bad.
I got got. 
You got Stickied™️
![[Image: 787zfpiyk9f7.jpeg]](https://vikefans.com/vfforums/uploads/editor/3j/787zfpiyk9f7.jpeg)
Quote: @minny65 said:
Honestly, I haven't seen him do much of anything to warrant any kind of evaluation. Plus, the GM position gets a one-year honeymoon because it takes that long to see if the decisions he made (be it FA, signing our own or not, draft, hiring a HC etc..) have come to fruition. To many moving parts to make a 3,6, 9 month evaluation.
Kwesi was brought in with the "wall-street analytics whiz kid" hype so every decision he makes will be a smarter decision then most of us "regular" folks can comprehend...until they aren't deemed smart and the honeymoon is over .
I am a skeptic first and foremost....I like people who have proven track records in the fields they are in but the Wilf's have decided to go progressive change with the hiring of Kwesi and in-turn our new HC. Kwesi's NFL football experience is 'lite" and so is KOC HC/play-calling experience. It will be more evident as a HC to see the bumps and bruises along the way and Kwesi will have a cushion. I have been in the corporate world for a few decades and about 8 at an executive level - that was 15 years ago. I have seen numerous "prodigies'" flip and flop like the rest of us commoners and I have seen a few excel. I have seen way more examples of the Peter Principle then I have seen the cream rising to the top - again corporate world/politics.
Also, I think the Wilf's and our experienced executive search team had a heavy hand in hiring Kwesi and also had a strong influence over Kwesi to hire KOC and extend Kirk. They had a plan and Kwesi was the guy to implement that plan for now. I think (and certainly hope) that our new GM will become much more autonomous over time but that has to be earned. Obviously Spelly wielded a lot of power that I am sure the surrounding executives and Wilf's realized may have been over the top especially if you can't even talk to/communicate with your first HC hire. In the end, Spelly's ship was tied to Zimmer (which I didn't think it was, I wanted Zimmer gone for several years with Spelly at 50/50) and it sunk in a small Titanic fashion but it did take years too long to make the change.
Unfortunately, I think some of my prediction above came to fruition. Kwesi got "schooled" IMO. Shows the inexperience. Expect some of the same for our new HC.
I'll start off by saying I was against the hiring of Kwesi. I don't believe in playing moneyball in football or being analytics driven is the best thing when it comes to roster building. I think you need to have a feel for the game, for players, and it's highly beneficial to have played the game at a high level or been a scout in player evaluation. The Vikings took a huge roll of the dice on a smart, Wallstreet guy who had done nothing more in the game of football then break down charts and analytics of various types. He is the Brad Childress of NFL GM's. I thought his first phase of free agency was unimpressive and very Spielman-esque. The draft was going to be his first real chance to put his own stamp on the team and for us to get a better idea of what he's about. I thought he completely shit the bed on the trade down with a division rival. There was nothing good about the trade down, from how far down we dropped, to the compensation, to allowing a division rival to add a playmaker they badly needed, to us taking a low impact position player with our pick when it finally came. This draft was thought to have 16 to 18 real blue-chip type, impact players and we moved out of that spot with a division rival for a safety. We followed that move up with trading down in the second round with the Packers, allowing them to move up and grab a playmaker they badly needed. I just think the draft has been a cluster f*** to this point and 100% wish Spielman was back in charge.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
I'll start off by saying I was against the hiring of Kwesi. I don't believe in playing moneyball in football or being analytics driven is the best thing when it comes to roster building. I think you need to have a feel for the game, for players, and it's highly beneficial to have played the game at a high level or been a scout in player evaluation. The Vikings took a huge roll of the dice on a smart, Wallstreet guy who had done nothing more in the game of football then break down charts and analytics of various types. He is the Brad Childress of NFL GM's. I thought his first phase of free agency was unimpressive and very Spielman-esque. The draft was going to be his first real chance to put his own stamp on the team and for us to get a better idea of what he's about. I thought he completely shit the bed on the trade down with a division rival. There was nothing good about the trade down, from how far down we dropped, to the compensation, to allowing a division rival to add a playmaker they badly needed, to us taking a low impact position player with our pick when it finally came. This draft was thought to have 16 to 18 real blue-chip type, impact players and we moved out of that spot with a division rival for a safety. We followed that move up with trading down in the second round with the Packers, allowing them to move up and grab a playmaker they badly needed. I just think the draft has been a cluster f*** to this point and 100% wish Spielman was back in charge.
While I wouldn’t go this far because he’s so new, it’s hard to argue anything you said because it has been an odd couple of days and picks. The only real rebuttal is: give it time.
My biggest on-field concern is I could see our first 3 picks all starting right away, or I could see them all being depth. There’s not even a single guaranteed starter. Which is weird since we had the 12th pick.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
I'll start off by saying I was against the hiring of Kwesi. I don't believe in playing moneyball in football or being analytics driven is the best thing when it comes to roster building. I think you need to have a feel for the game, for players, and it's highly beneficial to have played the game at a high level or been a scout in player evaluation. The Vikings took a huge roll of the dice on a smart, Wallstreet guy who had done nothing more in the game of football then break down charts and analytics of various types. He is the Brad Childress of NFL GM's. I thought his first phase of free agency was unimpressive and very Spielman-esque. The draft was going to be his first real chance to put his own stamp on the team and for us to get a better idea of what he's about. I thought he completely shit the bed on the trade down with a division rival. There was nothing good about the trade down, from how far down we dropped, to the compensation, to allowing a division rival to add a playmaker they badly needed, to us taking a low impact position player with our pick when it finally came. This draft was thought to have 16 to 18 real blue-chip type, impact players and we moved out of that spot with a division rival for a safety. We followed that move up with trading down in the second round with the Packers, allowing them to move up and grab a playmaker they badly needed. I just think the draft has been a cluster f*** to this point and 100% wish Spielman was back in charge.
Nothing has been proven or disproven yet. I mean, lol, c'mon lets see what ends up happening as far as the players and their impact. I've said many times the whole deal so far has been weird, but it doesn't mean it will not be successful. Many are looking at it from a value perspective....value doesn't put on a jersey and play football, players do. Lets see how these guys do.
Because no one asked (or should have, really):
The way this looks to me, both in FA and the draft, is that this year was always going to be the "audition" year: the team had x-number of players under contracts and/or central to the team's current roster, so they were going to be part of the 2022 planning regardless the howls of the armchair dumbassery outside. They would be evaluated for their worth going forward.
The team had known player issues, particularly o-line and defensive weaknesses. Those were tended to, carefully, in free agency, and with only moderate fanfare. Splash trades are fun, but teams win rings. I appreciated the constant solid updates that I'd see in my team news, it already looked like the o-line was heading for some healthy improvement and that the pass rush was going to step forward.
As for the draft...I'm not a big fan of trading within the division, either, but only time tells whether we won or lost in each case. I've liked the picks so far, particularly Cine, but I also really don't invest much interest in our newbies until I see camp battles and actual game footage. The draft is what it is, but the core of the team is still people like Cousins, Hunter, JJ, Thielen, Harry, and so on.
Our new regime looks to be building well but carefully, and not worried about splashes as much as returns. I really don't get all the complaints, which is something I've been saying for two months, now.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I'll start off by saying I was against the hiring of Kwesi. I don't believe in playing moneyball in football or being analytics driven is the best thing when it comes to roster building. I think you need to have a feel for the game, for players, and it's highly beneficial to have played the game at a high level or been a scout in player evaluation. The Vikings took a huge roll of the dice on a smart, Wallstreet guy who had done nothing more in the game of football then break down charts and analytics of various types. He is the Brad Childress of NFL GM's. I thought his first phase of free agency was unimpressive and very Spielman-esque. The draft was going to be his first real chance to put his own stamp on the team and for us to get a better idea of what he's about. I thought he completely shit the bed on the trade down with a division rival. There was nothing good about the trade down, from how far down we dropped, to the compensation, to allowing a division rival to add a playmaker they badly needed, to us taking a low impact position player with our pick when it finally came. This draft was thought to have 16 to 18 real blue-chip type, impact players and we moved out of that spot with a division rival for a safety. We followed that move up with trading down in the second round with the Packers, allowing them to move up and grab a playmaker they badly needed. I just think the draft has been a cluster f*** to this point and 100% wish Spielman was back in charge.
While I wouldn’t go this far because he’s so new, it’s hard to argue anything you said because it has been an odd couple of days and picks. The only real rebuttal is: give it time.
My biggest on-field concern is I could see our first 3 picks all starting right away, or I could see them all being depth. There’s not even a single guaranteed starter. Which is weird since we had the 12th pick.
Give it time, sure, but on face value this draft has been a shit show of epic proportions. Agree though, Cine and Booth will compete to start, maybe even Ingram, but for a team that should of grabbed a slam dunk starter and blue-chip prospect with that 12th pick, coming away with what did sucks. Despite all the moving around, did we really add any significant contributors or future draft capital for our troubles? I would say no.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I'll start off by saying I was against the hiring of Kwesi. I don't believe in playing moneyball in football or being analytics driven is the best thing when it comes to roster building. I think you need to have a feel for the game, for players, and it's highly beneficial to have played the game at a high level or been a scout in player evaluation. The Vikings took a huge roll of the dice on a smart, Wallstreet guy who had done nothing more in the game of football then break down charts and analytics of various types. He is the Brad Childress of NFL GM's. I thought his first phase of free agency was unimpressive and very Spielman-esque. The draft was going to be his first real chance to put his own stamp on the team and for us to get a better idea of what he's about. I thought he completely shit the bed on the trade down with a division rival. There was nothing good about the trade down, from how far down we dropped, to the compensation, to allowing a division rival to add a playmaker they badly needed, to us taking a low impact position player with our pick when it finally came. This draft was thought to have 16 to 18 real blue-chip type, impact players and we moved out of that spot with a division rival for a safety. We followed that move up with trading down in the second round with the Packers, allowing them to move up and grab a playmaker they badly needed. I just think the draft has been a cluster f*** to this point and 100% wish Spielman was back in charge.
Nothing has been proven or disproven yet. I mean, lol, c'mon lets see what ends up happening as far as the players and their impact. I've said many times the whole deal so far has been weird, but it doesn't mean it will not be successful. Many are looking at it from a value perspective....value doesn't put on a jersey and play football, players do. Lets see how these guys do.
This is going to be an interesting draft to look back on in 3 years because we traded out of a spot where we could have drafted some of the top players at their positions. You also have the aspect of trading within the division (twice) and the players those teams added in the trade ups. Kwesi will either look like the smartest guy in the room or the biggest jackass in the room. I don't know that I've ever seen a bigger boom or bust draft from multiple viewpoints then what the Vikings have done these last couple days. Huge rolls of the dice.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I'll start off by saying I was against the hiring of Kwesi. I don't believe in playing moneyball in football or being analytics driven is the best thing when it comes to roster building. I think you need to have a feel for the game, for players, and it's highly beneficial to have played the game at a high level or been a scout in player evaluation. The Vikings took a huge roll of the dice on a smart, Wallstreet guy who had done nothing more in the game of football then break down charts and analytics of various types. He is the Brad Childress of NFL GM's. I thought his first phase of free agency was unimpressive and very Spielman-esque. The draft was going to be his first real chance to put his own stamp on the team and for us to get a better idea of what he's about. I thought he completely shit the bed on the trade down with a division rival. There was nothing good about the trade down, from how far down we dropped, to the compensation, to allowing a division rival to add a playmaker they badly needed, to us taking a low impact position player with our pick when it finally came. This draft was thought to have 16 to 18 real blue-chip type, impact players and we moved out of that spot with a division rival for a safety. We followed that move up with trading down in the second round with the Packers, allowing them to move up and grab a playmaker they badly needed. I just think the draft has been a cluster f*** to this point and 100% wish Spielman was back in charge.
Nothing has been proven or disproven yet. I mean, lol, c'mon lets see what ends up happening as far as the players and their impact. I've said many times the whole deal so far has been weird, but it doesn't mean it will not be successful. Many are looking at it from a value perspective....value doesn't put on a jersey and play football, players do. Lets see how these guys do.
This is going to be an interesting draft to look back on in 3 years because we traded out of a spot where we could have drafted some of the top players at their positions. You also have the aspect of trading within the division (twice) and the players those teams added in the trade ups. Kwesi will either look like the smartest guy in the room or the biggest jackass in the room. I don't know that I've ever seen a bigger boom or bust draft from multiple viewpoints then what the Vikings have done these last couple days. Huge rolls of the dice.
Trading with a division rival is a terrible idea. But the player the Lions traded up to get is also a roll of the dice. A speed receiver recovering from a torn ACL, who in the hell knows how he is going to recover. Remember they have Dan Campbell as a head coach, rush this guy back on the field and he may suffer another injury. Its a total gamble on their part that he fully recovers with no lasting effects.
The player the Packers got by trading up has known troubles with shaky hands and dropped passes according to ESPN draft recap. Maybe the new Viking secondary will shut these guys down or maybe Rodgers will get pissed if his new receiver can't overcome the drops.
Give the guy a break and see how the players he drafted play on the field.
Quote: @Greylock said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I'll start off by saying I was against the hiring of Kwesi. I don't believe in playing moneyball in football or being analytics driven is the best thing when it comes to roster building. I think you need to have a feel for the game, for players, and it's highly beneficial to have played the game at a high level or been a scout in player evaluation. The Vikings took a huge roll of the dice on a smart, Wallstreet guy who had done nothing more in the game of football then break down charts and analytics of various types. He is the Brad Childress of NFL GM's. I thought his first phase of free agency was unimpressive and very Spielman-esque. The draft was going to be his first real chance to put his own stamp on the team and for us to get a better idea of what he's about. I thought he completely shit the bed on the trade down with a division rival. There was nothing good about the trade down, from how far down we dropped, to the compensation, to allowing a division rival to add a playmaker they badly needed, to us taking a low impact position player with our pick when it finally came. This draft was thought to have 16 to 18 real blue-chip type, impact players and we moved out of that spot with a division rival for a safety. We followed that move up with trading down in the second round with the Packers, allowing them to move up and grab a playmaker they badly needed. I just think the draft has been a cluster f*** to this point and 100% wish Spielman was back in charge.
Nothing has been proven or disproven yet. I mean, lol, c'mon lets see what ends up happening as far as the players and their impact. I've said many times the whole deal so far has been weird, but it doesn't mean it will not be successful. Many are looking at it from a value perspective....value doesn't put on a jersey and play football, players do. Lets see how these guys do.
This is going to be an interesting draft to look back on in 3 years because we traded out of a spot where we could have drafted some of the top players at their positions. You also have the aspect of trading within the division (twice) and the players those teams added in the trade ups. Kwesi will either look like the smartest guy in the room or the biggest jackass in the room. I don't know that I've ever seen a bigger boom or bust draft from multiple viewpoints then what the Vikings have done these last couple days. Huge rolls of the dice.
Trading with a division rival is a terrible idea. But the player the Lions traded up to get is also a roll of the dice. A speed receiver recovering from a torn ACL, who in the hell knows how he is going to recover. Remember they have Dan Campbell as a head coach, rush this guy back on the field and he may suffer another injury. Its a total gamble on their part that he fully recovers with no lasting effects.
The player the Packers got by trading up has known troubles with shaky hands and dropped passes according to ESPN draft recap. Maybe the new Viking secondary will shut these guys down or maybe Rodgers will get pissed if his new receiver can't overcome the drops.
Give the guy a break and see how the players he drafted play on the field.
But why even give those teams the opportunity to hit on these guys? The Lions moved up 20 spots for a 3rd round pick and a bag of peanuts! The Packers trade was better value but why give your biggest rival the ability to move way up in the second round to grab the receiver they want? Time will tell but the stupidity of these moves on face value is titanic. Kiper was absolutely floored like the rest of us that they would allow the Packers to move up into our spot.
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So now Kwesi is getting publicly pantsed by the Lions. Wonderful. Surprised Holmes didn't finish with a ![[Image: giphy.gif?cid=790b76113344b902becfdf43ab...y.gif&ct=g]](https://media1.giphy.com/media/Q8OOs80Hb5Bj1qNA1d/giphy.gif?cid=790b76113344b902becfdf43abff2907ad6f2d825a7b311b&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
