Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
Where is the money for a UFA OG? Spotrac shows cap space without Peterson as something under $8M; he's going to take at least a big chunk of that. Some more seems to be coming from switching Rudolph to post-June 1, but that's probably for draft picks. I think we just used the OL money on Peterson. Daddy Zimmer took the grocery money to get his CB fix.
You wanted to tank to see more Samia. Now you want big bucks for a G?
Ok.
Have you noticed the contracts for second tier guys? Also, there's the draft, June 1 cuts, cut down to 53 cuts. You realize there's plenty more shopping to do, right?
I dont know that Samia was necessarily the point of wanting to see pieces moved around towards the end of this last season, I think it was more to find out how Cleveland or ONeill fit on the left, or if Udoh was a legit candidate to play RT if ONeill was moved to the left side. Samia had shown pretty well 2 years ago, what happened this last year is a head scratcher as he was absolute garbage, but did a step back help him? probably not, but what was gained by playing our existing guys in positions they likely wont be asked to play in 21 with no real shot at anything?
Again, they were still in the playoff chase. You don't start experimenting when you are still in the hunt. Especially when you want further looks at a guy who was absolute horse shit. That's just comical.
Out of the chase after the Saints embarrassment. Even 1 game of experimentation (the Lions game) would tell us more about O'Neill at LT, Udoh starting.
60 or 70 snaps in a meaningless game. Ok. And are you subjecting Cousins to the sieve? Any of these guys going to miss escalators? Udoh had 35 meaningless snaps vs Chicago the prior year, what was gleaned from that?
It's a shit idea. But, if that's the hill you want to die on, I'm cool with that.
how is that more meaningless than those same guys getting reps in pre season?
Doesn't pay to apply logic, Jimmy. We were having a discussion comparing the 2020 offseason moves with the 2021 (so far), and Barr has dragged it down to swearing and insulting us for mentioning Dru Samia. He's good at derailing a broad discussion by isolating one point and badgering.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
Where is the money for a UFA OG? Spotrac shows cap space without Peterson as something under $8M; he's going to take at least a big chunk of that. Some more seems to be coming from switching Rudolph to post-June 1, but that's probably for draft picks. I think we just used the OL money on Peterson. Daddy Zimmer took the grocery money to get his CB fix.
You wanted to tank to see more Samia. Now you want big bucks for a G?
Ok.
Have you noticed the contracts for second tier guys? Also, there's the draft, June 1 cuts, cut down to 53 cuts. You realize there's plenty more shopping to do, right?
I dont know that Samia was necessarily the point of wanting to see pieces moved around towards the end of this last season, I think it was more to find out how Cleveland or ONeill fit on the left, or if Udoh was a legit candidate to play RT if ONeill was moved to the left side. Samia had shown pretty well 2 years ago, what happened this last year is a head scratcher as he was absolute garbage, but did a step back help him? probably not, but what was gained by playing our existing guys in positions they likely wont be asked to play in 21 with no real shot at anything?
Again, they were still in the playoff chase. You don't start experimenting when you are still in the hunt. Especially when you want further looks at a guy who was absolute horse shit. That's just comical.
Out of the chase after the Saints embarrassment. Even 1 game of experimentation (the Lions game) would tell us more about O'Neill at LT, Udoh starting.
60 or 70 snaps in a meaningless game. Ok. And are you subjecting Cousins to the sieve? Any of these guys going to miss escalators? Udoh had 35 meaningless snaps vs Chicago the prior year, what was gleaned from that?
It's a shit idea. But, if that's the hill you want to die on, I'm cool with that.
how is that more meaningless than those same guys getting reps in pre season?
Well, let's see. In preseason you're trying to set your roster. In the regular season, ahem, YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.
Did you hear it?
Quote: @Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
And you just hit the nail on the head. AT LEAST one decent OG. Our line is not in good shape. But we keep trying to defense our way out of the situation. It doesn't and hasn't worked. It is the definition of insanity. It is the same thing EVERY. DAMN. YEAR. Does anyone even remember when we had a good oline? I don't mean dominant. I just mean good. We have the majority of our team dollars locked up in a QB and asn oline that a dog fart can get through with no problem.
I am just tired of getting excited for moves that neglect a decade long issue. Sure it will be great to see some good CB (or is it safety?) play but I am tired of watching the QB get murdered nd have to run around like a chicken with it's head cut off. I am tired of watching that harrassment get into the heads of our quarterbacks.
Whatever happens I will be watching this year and rooting for them. I'm just not that jazzed about the lack of moves that I see as important and bringing in older guys at positions that we seem to always be filling despite spending high draft picks at.
I am hoping everyone else's enthusiasm and Rah Rah pays off and it works out in our favor. I just see more of the same.
We were the #4 offense last year. That was after opening 1-5. Our line did suck but offense wasn't the problem last year. I assume we'll be bringing in at least one starter on the OL through FA and probably drafting an OT with our #1.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
And you just hit the nail on the head. AT LEAST one decent OG. Our line is not in good shape. But we keep trying to defense our way out of the situation. It doesn't and hasn't worked. It is the definition of insanity. It is the same thing EVERY. DAMN. YEAR. Does anyone even remember when we had a good oline? I don't mean dominant. I just mean good. We have the majority of our team dollars locked up in a QB and asn oline that a dog fart can get through with no problem.
I am just tired of getting excited for moves that neglect a decade long issue. Sure it will be great to see some good CB (or is it safety?) play but I am tired of watching the QB get murdered nd have to run around like a chicken with it's head cut off. I am tired of watching that harrassment get into the heads of our quarterbacks.
Whatever happens I will be watching this year and rooting for them. I'm just not that jazzed about the lack of moves that I see as important and bringing in older guys at positions that we seem to always be filling despite spending high draft picks at.
I am hoping everyone else's enthusiasm and Rah Rah pays off and it works out in our favor. I just see more of the same.
The Vikings offense averaged 393.3 yards per game, which ranked fourth in the NFL in 2020. The Vikings defense allowed an average of 393.3 yards per game, which ranked27th in the NFL in 2020. That's right, Minnesota netted 6,292 yards and allowed 6,292 net yards.
Oh I agree the defense was putrid. I just happen to think it isn’t so much personnel as opposed to scheme and coaching.
I do think the vikes will get some type of OL help. I am just tired of that taking a back seat every year it seems. Or the pieces that they get don’t pan out. It is maddening.
I will hope for the best this year but once again I don’t see a great upcoming year for us. I am usually wrong though so we will see.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
Where is the money for a UFA OG? Spotrac shows cap space without Peterson as something under $8M; he's going to take at least a big chunk of that. Some more seems to be coming from switching Rudolph to post-June 1, but that's probably for draft picks. I think we just used the OL money on Peterson. Daddy Zimmer took the grocery money to get his CB fix.
You wanted to tank to see more Samia. Now you want big bucks for a G?
Ok.
Have you noticed the contracts for second tier guys? Also, there's the draft, June 1 cuts, cut down to 53 cuts. You realize there's plenty more shopping to do, right?
I dont know that Samia was necessarily the point of wanting to see pieces moved around towards the end of this last season, I think it was more to find out how Cleveland or ONeill fit on the left, or if Udoh was a legit candidate to play RT if ONeill was moved to the left side. Samia had shown pretty well 2 years ago, what happened this last year is a head scratcher as he was absolute garbage, but did a step back help him? probably not, but what was gained by playing our existing guys in positions they likely wont be asked to play in 21 with no real shot at anything?
Again, they were still in the playoff chase. You don't start experimenting when you are still in the hunt. Especially when you want further looks at a guy who was absolute horse shit. That's just comical.
Out of the chase after the Saints embarrassment. Even 1 game of experimentation (the Lions game) would tell us more about O'Neill at LT, Udoh starting.
60 or 70 snaps in a meaningless game. Ok. And are you subjecting Cousins to the sieve? Any of these guys going to miss escalators? Udoh had 35 meaningless snaps vs Chicago the prior year, what was gleaned from that?
It's a shit idea. But, if that's the hill you want to die on, I'm cool with that.
how is that more meaningless than those same guys getting reps in pre season?
Doesn't pay to apply logic, Jimmy. We were having a discussion comparing the 2020 offseason moves with the 2021 (so far), and Barr has dragged it down to swearing and insulting us for mentioning Dru Samia. He's good at derailing a broad discussion by isolating one point and badgering.
Would you feel better if I brought up all your ludicrous statements?
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
Where is the money for a UFA OG? Spotrac shows cap space without Peterson as something under $8M; he's going to take at least a big chunk of that. Some more seems to be coming from switching Rudolph to post-June 1, but that's probably for draft picks. I think we just used the OL money on Peterson. Daddy Zimmer took the grocery money to get his CB fix.
You wanted to tank to see more Samia. Now you want big bucks for a G?
Ok.
Have you noticed the contracts for second tier guys? Also, there's the draft, June 1 cuts, cut down to 53 cuts. You realize there's plenty more shopping to do, right?
I dont know that Samia was necessarily the point of wanting to see pieces moved around towards the end of this last season, I think it was more to find out how Cleveland or ONeill fit on the left, or if Udoh was a legit candidate to play RT if ONeill was moved to the left side. Samia had shown pretty well 2 years ago, what happened this last year is a head scratcher as he was absolute garbage, but did a step back help him? probably not, but what was gained by playing our existing guys in positions they likely wont be asked to play in 21 with no real shot at anything?
Again, they were still in the playoff chase. You don't start experimenting when you are still in the hunt. Especially when you want further looks at a guy who was absolute horse shit. That's just comical.
Out of the chase after the Saints embarrassment. Even 1 game of experimentation (the Lions game) would tell us more about O'Neill at LT, Udoh starting.
60 or 70 snaps in a meaningless game. Ok. And are you subjecting Cousins to the sieve? Any of these guys going to miss escalators? Udoh had 35 meaningless snaps vs Chicago the prior year, what was gleaned from that?
It's a shit idea. But, if that's the hill you want to die on, I'm cool with that.
how is that more meaningless than those same guys getting reps in pre season?
Well, let's see. In preseason you're trying to set your roster. In the regular season, ahem, YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.
Did you hear it?
well, how is a meaningless regular season game any more important than a meaningless preseason game? seems like they missed a golden opportunity to evaluate their players to prepare for this years roster in a meaningless game. EDIT: if teams that are in the playoffs can bench starters to save them for their meaningful playoff game, then why the hell cant teams sit starters when there is nothing on the line if it helps the team for next year? If Udoh would have been the RT and gotten schooled by an unmotivated opposing player, does that make you comfortable with him as a reserve this coming season? or if ONeill looked like baked ass at LT, would that be a comfortable plan for 2021? Yes its only a small window, but its a window and honestly as a fan it would have been more entertaining that watching a game with "dead man walking" floating through my mind.
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