Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ TBro said:
The problem with this team isn't QB. Gutting the team and giving up all those picks for Watson when we have so many issues to fix on both the Oline and DLine makes zero sense.
Is Watson really that much better? He isn't at the level of a Russel Wilson, or Aaron Rodgers when it comes to putting a team on his back and willing them to victory. Very few are and I don't think he is one of them.
Watson:
2020 stats: 16 games | 70.2 pct | 4,823 pass yds | 8.9 ypa | 33 pass TD | 7 INT | 444 rush yds | 3 rush TD | 3 fumbles lost
Cousins:
2020 stats: 16 games | 67.2 pct | 4,265 pass yds | 8.3 ypa | 35 pass TD | 13 INT | 156 rush yds | 1 rush TD | 5 fumbles lost
comparing stats from 2 different players in 2 different offenses, with different players around them, facing different opponents, playing a team game is about as useless as tooth brush in Green Bay.
I never said that Stats are the only measure used in a trade evaluation but for you to dismiss his Stats vs. Cousins because he plays on another team with different players is ridiculous. Some people in Green Bay have at least one tooth to brush just like Stats have a purpose as part of the overall evaluation including Game Film and Scouting. Regardless, IMO we would be fools to give up that much when we are not one player away from winning a Championship. Would I rather have Watson than Cousins? Yes. Am I willing to pay the rumored asking price? No. Especially with all of the other holes we have to fill. We are still a couple of years away IMO.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Wasn't there a report recently that Watson would not waive his no trade clause for a trade to Minnesota? So there's that.
That was speculation since we're a run-first offense.
Quote:
It is so past due time to move on from Zimmer...
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
Watson will waive his no trade for the Jets, Phins, and Panthers.
Bubbles bursting everywhere.
There are other teams he'll knowingly waive it for.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ TBro said:
The problem with this team isn't QB. Gutting the team and giving up all those picks for Watson when we have so many issues to fix on both the Oline and DLine makes zero sense.
Is Watson really that much better? He isn't at the level of a Russel Wilson, or Aaron Rodgers when it comes to putting a team on his back and willing them to victory. Very few are and I don't think he is one of them.
Watson:
2020 stats: 16 games | 70.2 pct | 4,823 pass yds | 8.9 ypa | 33 pass TD | 7 INT | 444 rush yds | 3 rush TD | 3 fumbles lost
Cousins:
2020 stats: 16 games | 67.2 pct | 4,265 pass yds | 8.3 ypa | 35 pass TD | 13 INT | 156 rush yds | 1 rush TD | 5 fumbles lost
comparing stats from 2 different players in 2 different offenses, with different players around them, facing different opponents, playing a team game is about as useless as tooth brush in Green Bay.
Or anything in a woman's size 20 or less.
Quote: @TBro said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ TBro said:
The problem with this team isn't QB. Gutting the team and giving up all those picks for Watson when we have so many issues to fix on both the Oline and DLine makes zero sense.
Is Watson really that much better? He isn't at the level of a Russel Wilson, or Aaron Rodgers when it comes to putting a team on his back and willing them to victory. Very few are and I don't think he is one of them.
Watson:
2020 stats: 16 games | 70.2 pct | 4,823 pass yds | 8.9 ypa | 33 pass TD | 7 INT | 444 rush yds | 3 rush TD | 3 fumbles lost
Cousins:
2020 stats: 16 games | 67.2 pct | 4,265 pass yds | 8.3 ypa | 35 pass TD | 13 INT | 156 rush yds | 1 rush TD | 5 fumbles lost
comparing stats from 2 different players in 2 different offenses, with different players around them, facing different opponents, playing a team game is about as useless as tooth brush in Green Bay.
I never said that Stats are the only measure used in a trade evaluation but for you to dismiss his Stats vs. Cousins because he plays on another team with different players is ridiculous. Some people in Green Bay have at least one tooth to brush just like Stats have a purpose as part of the overall evaluation including Game Film and Scouting. Regardless, IMO we would be fools to give up that much when we are not one player away from winning a Championship. Would I rather have Watson than Cousins? Yes. Am I willing to pay the rumored asking price? No. Especially with all of the other holes we have to fill. We are still a couple of years away IMO.
If we are a couple years or more away, why are we paying Cousins his monster years? I dont see him has a guy that plays at a high level into his late 30s. Might as well trade Cousins to the niners for whatever we can get, run with garrapolo for a year amd put our resources into a future QB as well as OL and DL. Cut or trade Reiff and use that cap money to lock up our younger guys long term or find FA help at positions of need that are under their primes by a few years so hopefully they all come together in 3 years right before Cook falls of.
Send everybody over 30 packing and commit to 3 years down the road instead of 2 more years of not quite good enough.
Or are we not that far away as others seem to believe and profess?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ TBro said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ TBro said:
The problem with this team isn't QB. Gutting the team and giving up all those picks for Watson when we have so many issues to fix on both the Oline and DLine makes zero sense.
Is Watson really that much better? He isn't at the level of a Russel Wilson, or Aaron Rodgers when it comes to putting a team on his back and willing them to victory. Very few are and I don't think he is one of them.
Watson:
2020 stats: 16 games | 70.2 pct | 4,823 pass yds | 8.9 ypa | 33 pass TD | 7 INT | 444 rush yds | 3 rush TD | 3 fumbles lost
Cousins:
2020 stats: 16 games | 67.2 pct | 4,265 pass yds | 8.3 ypa | 35 pass TD | 13 INT | 156 rush yds | 1 rush TD | 5 fumbles lost
comparing stats from 2 different players in 2 different offenses, with different players around them, facing different opponents, playing a team game is about as useless as tooth brush in Green Bay.
I never said that Stats are the only measure used in a trade evaluation but for you to dismiss his Stats vs. Cousins because he plays on another team with different players is ridiculous. Some people in Green Bay have at least one tooth to brush just like Stats have a purpose as part of the overall evaluation including Game Film and Scouting. Regardless, IMO we would be fools to give up that much when we are not one player away from winning a Championship. Would I rather have Watson than Cousins? Yes. Am I willing to pay the rumored asking price? No. Especially with all of the other holes we have to fill. We are still a couple of years away IMO.
If we are a couple years or more away, why are we paying Cousins his monster years? I dont see him has a guy that plays at a high level into his late 30s. Might as well trade Cousins to the niners for whatever we can get, run with garrapolo for a year amd put our resources into a future QB as well as OL and DL. Cut or trade Reiff and use that cap money to lock up our younger guys long term or find FA help at positions of need that are under their primes by a few years so hopefully they all come together in 3 years right before Cook falls of.
Send everybody over 30 packing and commit to 3 years down the road instead of 2 more years of not quite good enough.
Or are we not that far away as others seem to believe and profess?
I totally agree and would trade Cousins in a heartbeat if we could get a good return but it won't happen when you have a Head Coach and GM fighting for their jobs and selling ownership on the pipe dream they can compete for a Championship with Cousins and few tweaks to the roster. We all saw how that went last season with injuries and inexperienced rookies on defense that were thrown into the fire. Fixing both lines has to be a priority and I don't think that will happen in one draft. Maybe we can get it done it two plus some key FA's but where are we going to get the cap space to spend in Free Agency? If you release Reiff for the cap space, you are going to have to draft a Left Tackle to replace him unless you think Cleveland is ready to take over. If you move him to tackle you still need two guards and that is before addressing the 3T, DE, and Safety positions on defense. To your point, paying Cousins a premium for the next two years doesn't make a lot of sense based on the holes we have to fill. Trading away all those picks for Watson makes it even worse IMO.
Good lord:
"But when the 2021 league year dawns on March 17, neither Goff nor Wentz will be a part of the teams that gave them those deals. Goff will be traded to the Lions and Wentz to the Colts, each shuttled out of town before the first years of those extensions even kicked in.
So desperate, in fact, were their original teams to get rid of these guys that they'll incur significant salary-cap hardships to do so. The Rams will carry a dead-money charge of $22.2 million on their cap this year as a result of Goff's contract. That amount would be the highest single-player dead-money charge in NFL history ... if not for the $33.8 million dead-money charge the Eagles have to carry for Wentz."
Quote: @StickyBun said:
Good lord:
"But when the 2021 league year dawns on March 17, neither Goff nor Wentz will be a part of the teams that gave them those deals. Goff will be traded to the Lions and Wentz to the Colts, each shuttled out of town before the first years of those extensions even kicked in.
So desperate, in fact, were their original teams to get rid of these guys that they'll incur significant salary-cap hardships to do so. The Rams will carry a dead-money charge of $22.2 million on their cap this year as a result of Goff's contract. That amount would be the highest single-player dead-money charge in NFL history ... if not for the $33.8 million dead-money charge the Eagles have to carry for Wentz."
Goff, Wentz, Jimmy G... these guys aren't terrible. Their contracts are.
Kiper's latest mock has 5 QBs in the top 9.
I think NFL teams are realizing the best way to win a Super Bowl is with an elite QB. The second best way to win a Super Bowl is with a cheap one.
Wilson and Watson make fantastic cautionary tales: Russell is pummeled to the point where he's complaining about it publicly, and he hasn't "put the team on his back" enough for a Superb Owl return since...oh, yeah..."The Legion" disbanded.
His gunslinging was emboldened and enabled by having a vicious defense on his side.
Watson just put his team on his back to the tune of...4-12. For his apparently elite skill set, he hasn't been THE DEFINING ELEMENT that his team has needed to achieve greatness. It staggers me that people insist he'd be so different with the Vikings, who will still have some elements of a run first/clock control mentality as long as Zimmer's the head coach. Similarly, if the OL and D issues aren't dealt with, no QB can really flourish the way we'd want; just ask Mahomes how much he enjoyed having Tampa Bay in his backfield recently.
I truly believe that our team could actually get an amazing, self-energizing swagger all its own if the line issues are addressed this offseason. The Cousins Hate Club (now with tastier crayons!) will ignore every relevant positive element about him to fixate on a dwindling collection of negatives...but the truth is, he's actually improving/evolving since joining the Vikings. He has a LOT of scores and yards, especially when his attempts are compared with the other top QBs. I don't see him as the offensive threat that Watson, Wilson, Mahomes are...but with our o-line addressed? The overall offense...already within sight of the top in production...could be impressive as anyone's.
Quote: @Zanary said:
Wilson and Watson make fantastic cautionary tales: Russell is pummeled to the point where he's complaining about it publicly, and he hasn't "put the team on his back" enough for a Superb Owl return since...oh, yeah..."The Legion" disbanded.
His gunslinging was emboldened and enabled by having a vicious defense on his side.
Watson just put his team on his back to the tune of...4-12. For his apparently elite skill set, he hasn't been THE DEFINING ELEMENT that his team has needed to achieve greatness. It staggers me that people insist he'd be so different with the Vikings, who will still have some elements of a run first/clock control mentality as long as Zimmer's the head coach. Similarly, if the OL and D issues aren't dealt with, no QB can really flourish the way we'd want; just ask Mahomes how much he enjoyed having Tampa Bay in his backfield recently.
I truly believe that our team could actually get an amazing, self-energizing swagger all its own if the line issues are addressed this offseason. The Cousins Hate Club (now with tastier crayons!) will ignore every relevant positive element about him to fixate on a dwindling collection of negatives...but the truth is, he's actually improving/evolving since joining the Vikings. He has a LOT of scores and yards, especially when his attempts are compared with the other top QBs. I don't see him as the offensive threat that Watson, Wilson, Mahomes are...but with our o-line addressed? The overall offense...already within sight of the top in production...could be impressive as anyone's.
Zanary, you capture an ironic angle: Watson is believed (by his fans) to be "the defining element" who would push our current team to a championship. Isn't this an echo of the argument for acquiring Cousins three years ago? He was supposedly a great player on a bad team, and adding him to the Vikings (a better team) would "push us over the top" or "be the missing piece". I just don't see much difference. History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes. (Mark Twain)
Also interesting that Watson's current contract jumps to a cap hit of $40M in 2022. Not as bad as Cousins' $45M but close enough that people would bitch about it.
I'm not a believer that we are one piece away, or even a few. But either I'm wrong and we should roll with the plan Zimmer and Spielman have (stick with Kirk), or we should wait until we're in full rebuild under new management and let them pick our next QB.
Also, I don't buy the idea that the possible "Watson auction" is a once-in-a-lifetime event. Two "franchise QBs" have already moved this offseason...I think we are now in an era when they will move around as often as other positional players have since the beginning of free agency.
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