Quote: @BigAl99 said:i
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ Viking1987 said:
a huge portion of this country is just lazy and want s more for less work
This isn't helpful. I am after a happier, healthier conversation between political factions. While your opinion might be true of some people out there, the vast majority of us are just trying to make enough to turn the lights on and keep food on the table.
Truth be told, minimum wage should have climbed with CPI. Had it done so we wouldn't have a $7.25 to $15 increase staring us down the barrel of the gun.
While I agree its to low, I think 15 is to high and if we are going to tie it to economic conditions do we then lower it in years of recession? Honestly it should be established by local job market conditions and that works. Here in SD it's over 9 an hour but most unskilled jobs start around 12 an hour, still not a great wage, but again its not requiring much more than showing up.
But is it enough for a single mother to afford safe housing, daycare and a path forward, or should she stay on “welfare”. If we really valued the land of opportunity, we need to invest in it. Should we raise taxes in times of prosperity so we can use the surplus in times of recession and lower taxes then?
Lol, when was the last time you paid for daycare? A freaking nanny was cheaper for ours when she was an infant. My wife are I are by no means wealthy, daycare was a strugle for two of us.
Youd have to pay $12.50 an hour (40 work week) ($2k a month) just to cover daycare here. So if you want a house, food and all the rest you better be after $30 minimum wage. We are privlaged enough to send ours to private school and it went down in cost to send them to school vs daycare.
This will sound cruel but in the above example I’ll fall back on the adage “If you breed ‘em you feed ‘em”
Edit**. I didnt subtract for taxes, MC, Ss. You actually need about $16/hr to cover daycare after uncle joe gets his cut.
"This will sound cruel but in the above example I’ll fall back on the adage “If you breed ‘em you feed ‘em”.
That "great again" mantra of the conservatives. Those evil poor, they made their own problems, 7.25 will teach them. I am sure this fits in with a good fundy Christian faith.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
"This will sound cruel but in the above example I’ll fall back on the adage “If you breed ‘em you feed ‘em”.
That "great again" mantra of the conservatives. Those evil poor, they made their own problems, 7.25 will teach them. I am sure this fits in with a good fundy Christian faith.
If we cannot hold someone responsible for their own decisions who should be held responsible? I think you should go read what I wrote earlier if you think I think "$7.25 will teach them" What I am saying is $15 isn't enough to raise a kid by yourself. Hell $30 isn't enough to raise a child as a single parent. So don't have kids if you cannot afford them.
Solving poverty starts at home. If you have a two parent household you have a 91% chance of living above the poverty line. That drops to 61% and 76% above the poverty line for single mothers and single father respectably. You teach your children that through example. They teach their kids and on and on.
Is your plan that Papa & Nana Government should raise all the kids?
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
"This will sound cruel but in the above example I’ll fall back on the adage “If you breed ‘em you feed ‘em”.
That "great again" mantra of the conservatives. Those evil poor, they made their own problems, 7.25 will teach them. I am sure this fits in with a good fundy Christian faith.
If we cannot hold someone responsible for their own decisions who should be held responsible? I think you should go read what I wrote earlier if you think I think "$7.25 will teach them" What I am saying is $15 isn't enough to raise a kid by yourself. Hell $30 isn't enough to raise a child as a single parent. So don't have kids if you cannot afford them.
Solving poverty starts at home. If you have a two parent household you have a 91% chance of living above the poverty line. That drops to 61% and 76% above the poverty line for single mothers and single father respectably. You teach your children that through example. They teach their kids and on and on.
Is your plan that Papa & Nana Government should raise all the kids?
I don't see it as a binary choice in society. I have repeatedly stated 15.00 is a starting point a good step up, not a hand out. If your business is dependent on 7.25 minimum labor for your profit goals perhaps you need to rethink your business model How about debtors prisons and the Jim Crow chain gangs, are those better way's to deal with those who deserve their situation?
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
"This will sound cruel but in the above example I’ll fall back on the adage “If you breed ‘em you feed ‘em”.
That "great again" mantra of the conservatives. Those evil poor, they made their own problems, 7.25 will teach them. I am sure this fits in with a good fundy Christian faith.
If we cannot hold someone responsible for their own decisions who should be held responsible? I think you should go read what I wrote earlier if you think I think "$7.25 will teach them" What I am saying is $15 isn't enough to raise a kid by yourself. Hell $30 isn't enough to raise a child as a single parent. So don't have kids if you cannot afford them.
Solving poverty starts at home. If you have a two parent household you have a 91% chance of living above the poverty line. That drops to 61% and 76% above the poverty line for single mothers and single father respectably. You teach your children that through example. They teach their kids and on and on.
Is your plan that Papa & Nana Government should raise all the kids?
I don't see it as a binary choice in society. I have repeatedly stated 15.00 is a starting point a good step up, not a hand out. If your business is dependent on 7.25 minimum labor for your profit goals perhaps you need to rethink your business model How about debtors prisons and the Jim Crow chain gangs, are those better way's to deal with those who deserve their situation?
I guess I'm going to answer your post the same way I did Viking1987's post. Accusing people of being for debtor prisons and Jim Crow isn't helpful. It only serves to continue toxic conversation on this site. The whole point of sensitive threads in my mind is to try an understand someone else's opinion not lambast others over theirs.
You obviously know that I'm not suggesting we chain people up. I've said repeatably throughout this thread that minimum wage should have risen over the past what....3 decades? I do however, think it should be regionalized. I've admitted several times that I don't know how to do that properly but paying someone in NY City the same as someone in Podunk Alabama shouldn't be the same because the cost of living is significantly different.
I can assure you that if you do raise minimum wage to $15 say starting 3/1/21 that there will be an exodus of small businesses. Its not that they couldn't afford the wages, its that they've been closed down for a whole year due to covid and can't take another beating. I luckily don't have any personal employees and haven't for a decade. My wife needs a worker but we've actually located a volunteer to help her on a few of her projects in exchange for her working with them. So we're going to for the immediate future be able to skip this whole minimum issue. I do know when $15 is a thing we wont fee embarrassed offering that as the pay where we wouldn't dream of offering the current minimum to someone.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
"This will sound cruel but in the above example I’ll fall back on the adage “If you breed ‘em you feed ‘em”.
That "great again" mantra of the conservatives. Those evil poor, they made their own problems, 7.25 will teach them. I am sure this fits in with a good fundy Christian faith.
If we cannot hold someone responsible for their own decisions who should be held responsible? I think you should go read what I wrote earlier if you think I think "$7.25 will teach them" What I am saying is $15 isn't enough to raise a kid by yourself. Hell $30 isn't enough to raise a child as a single parent. So don't have kids if you cannot afford them.
Solving poverty starts at home. If you have a two parent household you have a 91% chance of living above the poverty line. That drops to 61% and 76% above the poverty line for single mothers and single father respectably. You teach your children that through example. They teach their kids and on and on.
Is your plan that Papa & Nana Government should raise all the kids?
I don't see it as a binary choice in society. I have repeatedly stated 15.00 is a starting point a good step up, not a hand out. If your business is dependent on 7.25 minimum labor for your profit goals perhaps you need to rethink your business model How about debtors prisons and the Jim Crow chain gangs, are those better way's to deal with those who deserve their situation?
but in your arguements you state that the reason $15 is needed is because the single income mother has to pay child care and other living expenses with her minimal skills required career... AGR is simply pointing out that $15 wont cut it, so you should probably go back to the drawing board and come up with a real wage that will meet the needs of your single mother story line.
In the mean time... the CBO did a study on the $15 proposed hike a couple years ago and determined that $15 minimum wage would result in about 3.7 million jobs lost, about half that amount 1.3 million people would keep their jobs and with the added money would be lifted from poverty, but the job loss would far outpace the new income for those that keep their job and result in about 9 Billion dollar net loss in family income within 5 years.
https://epionline.org/release/cbo-report...imum-wage/
also, few industries have been hit harder from the covid shutdowns than the restaurant business, which is typically teetering on collapse in a good year, very few industries rely on low wage employees more than the restaurant industry... is right now really the best time to drive that dagger into an already suffering industry?
Well it's a step in the right direction, there is no single one off solution. In my opinion poverty is the most insidious threat to our social structure. From what I know and what I have observed being born into poverty is almost inescapable, the odds are not in your favor. That is one reason I feel so strong about this, it's no panacea, but is a step in the right direction. The current 7.25 is just an unnecessary additional barrier.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
Well it's a step in the right direction, there is no single one off solution. In my opinion poverty is the most insidious threat to our social structure. From what I know and what I have observed being born into poverty is almost inescapable, the odds are not in your favor. That is one reason I feel so strong about this, it's no panacea, but is a step in the right direction. The current 7.25 is just an unnecessary additional barrier.
Less than half the country recognizes that 7.25 minimum, hell some states have minimums lower that the federal standars ( not even sure how that is legal) so what is to be gained ? Leave wages up to local markets or at a minimum state guidelines and push for federal education standards and family relocation supports. Put the money into preparing people for jobs, and put the money into people where the jobs are.
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