I don't see anyone turning cartwheels over our off-season. With an extremely tight cap and a massive number of FAs, I expected zero signings, so to get Pierce was a boon.
Fully expected Diggs to be gone, so that's not a surprise. Pleased with the haul, but I'll be pissed if we spend a Day 1 pick in a WR outside the Big 3 WRs in this class. Too many guys who will be available in the third or later, Van Johnson, the kid from Minnesota, or Lynn Bowden, who will likely have similar impact.
The only truly puzzling move was Kline, and oh look, he's still available.
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
I don't see anyone turning cartwheels over our off-season. With an extremely tight cap and a massive number of FAs, I expected zero signings, so to get Pierce was a boon.
Fully expected Diggs to be gone, so that's not a surprise. Pleased with the haul, but I'll be pissed if we spend a Day 1 pick in a WR outside the Big 3 WRs in this class. Too many guys who will be available in the third or later, Van Johnson, the kid from Minnesota, or Lynn Bowden, who will likely have similar impact.
The only truly puzzling move was Kline, and oh look, he's still available.
with his recent concussion issue and the fact that these free agents cant go for visits... I can understand why he hasnt been signed by a new team... the fact that the only medicals a team can use is the medicals from the free agents previous team suggests to me that the Vikings might have concerns and Klines carry around papers say as much.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ pumpf said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ VikeMike52 said:
Just read another unsubstantiated rumor that the Patriots are very interested in him. Could it be Harris for Thuney? Both are tag and trade candidates valued at around 3rd round value.
What I know. Do the Vikings have some level of interest in Thuney? Yes. Does it involve trading Ant straight up for Thuney.. ehhh, maybe not.
So... either we don't want to trade Harris for Thuney... or it's not enough (for one of the teams)? Any idea what the plan is for Harris? PA said yesterday that our best hope is for a 5th rounder for him. Is that how you see it?
I turn in my Viking fan card if that went down for a 5th rounder...
Oh come on. Ten posts into the thread reporting the trade, people would start saying that Harris was a malcontent, overrated, not a good fit, and that our GM did a fantastic job turning a UDFA investment into a draft pick.
Uh, I get the feeling you posted this just to stir the pot. Keep trolling, you might get a bite soon!
He's not wrong. The purple koolaid must be helping some folks stay safe cuz you can't say one damn negative thing about a team that has lost 11 Players since the start of Free Agency and only added 1, easily the widest discrepancy in the League, without a dozen posters shouting you down.
I guess I've missed the posts praising our off-season to date. I actually think it's been a terrible off-season... so far.
We made some cuts that needed to be made, but other than shoring up our special teams and adding a stud NT, we let the majority of our depth walk. We're really thin in our secondary and our pass rush has taken a major hit with Griffen and Weatherly gone.
Unless Spielman nails the draft and Zimmer pulls a rabbit out of his hat with some of these Day 2/3 rookies, we'll likely take a step back this year.
Maybe we sign Clowney and find a few bargains on the FA market, but at this point I would agree with you that the roster looks a lot more questionable than it did last off-season.
I would love to sign Clowney...
What's happened to the secondary (and all that draft capital) has me in a neck-brace. Fans have every right to be concerned right now - and voice those concerns too.
I would sign Clowney, if it meant $5MM per year. He had 3 sacks last year and could never achieve double digit sacks with an All Pro on the other side. Clowney will get paid because of the name he created in college when in reality, he's an average DE.
Clowney turned down $17 million...he's not coming here with that demand and injury history...
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ pumpf said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ VikeMike52 said:
Just read another unsubstantiated rumor that the Patriots are very interested in him. Could it be Harris for Thuney? Both are tag and trade candidates valued at around 3rd round value.
What I know. Do the Vikings have some level of interest in Thuney? Yes. Does it involve trading Ant straight up for Thuney.. ehhh, maybe not.
So... either we don't want to trade Harris for Thuney... or it's not enough (for one of the teams)? Any idea what the plan is for Harris? PA said yesterday that our best hope is for a 5th rounder for him. Is that how you see it?
I turn in my Viking fan card if that went down for a 5th rounder...
Oh come on. Ten posts into the thread reporting the trade, people would start saying that Harris was a malcontent, overrated, not a good fit, and that our GM did a fantastic job turning a UDFA investment into a draft pick.
Uh, I get the feeling you posted this just to stir the pot. Keep trolling, you might get a bite soon!
I'm not saying anything about the overall results of the offseason - I know I have remarked on the need to see the overall personnel shifts before predicting.
I'm expressing my doubt that any future departure, Harris or anyone, will lead to someone "turning in their Viking fan card". How is that "trolling" any more than Purplefaithful saying he would abandon faith in the purple?
The possibility of trading Diggs was discussed here for months, and even those who thought he should go were predicting trades that would reap a pick in the top 10 and/or multiple picks in the first round and/or premier players in other positions of need. He's traded for a pick in the bottom-third of the first round and a handful of day 3 crap, and there was shock and anger here - for about 30 minutes. Then all the posts turned into explanations that Diggs is not really a premier NFL WR, support for Zimmer dealing with a tweeting whippersnapper, and praise for Spielman's trading acumen, spiced with the occasional shade on Cousins and hope that Diggs will suffer on a bad team for his disloyalty.
Josh Kline was hailed universally as a happy upgrade to our challenged OL since midseason, and his release elicited declarations that the team was not planning to compete in 2020 - but again, within 30 minutes we started seeing posts saying that Kline was extremely overrated, blocked better for the pass than the run, wouldn't help the team by taking a pay cut, and that we can trust team management knows Dakota Dozier or Dru Samia will be at least as good.
Same to varying degrees with Alexander, Waynes, Joseph, Griffen (though most of that is holding until he signs elsewhere). Maybe these are all good decisions for the team - but most of the people on this board are not able to evaluate Vikings personnel changes with any objectivity.
It's like Star Wars fans - most love the first 3 movies that were made but then split into two groups:A. WTF did Disney do with these sequels? They suck and the franchise I love deserves better!!B. The sequels say "Star Wars" in the title so I love them automatically and will keep buying.
If you have enough "Type B" fans - of Star Wars or the Vikings - there is no reason to improve the product.
Not the greatest off season so far but the only ones that surprised me were releasing Kline and not re-signing Alexander. Nothing else shouldn't have been expected and signing Pierce was a plus I didn't see coming.
Kline was a surprise, but I listened to Arif on a podcast say that because of some contingency in his contract, his cap savings is actually twice what we all thought it was. What's the plan there? Who knows, but I think Samia has always been more of a right guard than left. Maybe even RG only. I think that's his job to lose this summer. Elflein could be on the roster still only because of his ability to backup at center.
Pierce was a surprise, but a damn good one. Probably an upgrade as a run defender from what we got from Linval this year.
I didn't think we'd tag Harris, but it was actually a very wise thing to do. It basically hits "pause" on the whole thing and gives us time to either trade him, extend him, whatever. It's good to be able to keep that ace in the hole until we see the rest of our cards. And if we do end up with a viable replacement, then we get a pick and a nice little $11M boost.
Nothing will make me think of the Diggs trade as anything but idiotic, and a giant leap backward, but other than that, everything else is what we all expected. Linval, Griff, Rhodes, Waynes, Mac, Kearse....all of it.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ Jor-El said:
Oh come on. Ten posts into the thread reporting the trade, people would start saying that Harris was a malcontent, overrated, not a good fit, and that our GM did a fantastic job turning a UDFA investment into a draft pick.
Uh, I get the feeling you posted this just to stir the pot. Keep trolling, you might get a bite soon!
I'm expressing my doubt that any future departure, Harris or anyone, will lead to someone "turning in their Viking fan card". How is that "trolling" any more than Purplefaithful saying he would abandon faith in the purple?
You did? Where?
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Kline was a surprise, but I listened to Arif on a podcast say that because of some contingency in his contract, his cap savings is actually twice what we all thought it was. What's the plan there? Who knows, but I think Samia has always been more of a right guard than left. Maybe even RG only. I think that's his job to lose this summer. Elflein could be on the roster still only because of his ability to backup at center.
Pierce was a surprise, but a damn good one. Probably an upgrade as a run defender from what we got from Linval this year.
I didn't think we'd tag Harris, but it was actually a very wise thing to do. It basically hits "pause" on the whole thing and gives us time to either trade him, extend him, whatever. It's good to be able to keep that ace in the hole until we see the rest of our cards. And if we do end up with a viable replacement, then we get a pick and a nice little $11M boost.
Nothing will make me think of the Diggs trade as anything but idiotic, and a giant leap backward, but other than that, everything else is what we all expected. Linval, Griff, Rhodes, Waynes, Mac, Kearse....all of it.
Kline's salary of 1.8 mil for 2019 was going to be guaranteed by some date in March.
He had two concussions last year which probably gave the Vikings pause.
By cutting him they only take the dead money cap hit from his prorated signing bonus which is 2.667 mil.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ pumpf said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ VikeMike52 said:
Just read another unsubstantiated rumor that the Patriots are very interested in him. Could it be Harris for Thuney? Both are tag and trade candidates valued at around 3rd round value.
What I know. Do the Vikings have some level of interest in Thuney? Yes. Does it involve trading Ant straight up for Thuney.. ehhh, maybe not.
So... either we don't want to trade Harris for Thuney... or it's not enough (for one of the teams)? Any idea what the plan is for Harris? PA said yesterday that our best hope is for a 5th rounder for him. Is that how you see it?
I turn in my Viking fan card if that went down for a 5th rounder...
Oh come on. Ten posts into the thread reporting the trade, people would start saying that Harris was a malcontent, overrated, not a good fit, and that our GM did a fantastic job turning a UDFA investment into a draft pick.
Uh, I get the feeling you posted this just to stir the pot. Keep trolling, you might get a bite soon!
He's not wrong. The purple koolaid must be helping some folks stay safe cuz you can't say one damn negative thing about a team that has lost 11 Players since the start of Free Agency and only added 1, easily the widest discrepancy in the League, without a dozen posters shouting you down.
Fine. Show me how these losses make us demonstrably worse. Everyone (except me) seemed to think that Waynes was garbage. Rhodes was bad. Linval was declining and expensive. EG was a loss... but we might still get him back (no one is exactly beating down his door... same thing for Kline). We lost Weatherly (a rotational back-up), Mac (a good slot corner), Treadwell, Diggs (who didn't want to be here), and... who am I missing? That didn't feel like 11. Sendejo??? He wasn't even a starter.
Tell me who I'm forgetting. And then tell me which ones are critical losses. That way we can have an honest discussion about this. But I don't think that this is really about the number of players gone... or the quality of the players. It's a way of attacking Rick. THAT'S why most people reject it; it's not a reasoned argument. It's just treating Rick like Trump (or Obama, if you prefer): there's nothing they can do that will satisfy some people.
If ANYONE on here has earned the right to criticize Rick it's me, one of his most consistent supporters over the years. Not that it's a right that needs to be earned.
But to be clear, I'm not hopping mad about any single player leaving per se. In a vacuum none of them were irreplaceable. The problem is how many were lost.
Wetlander and others have hit the nail on the head. This team will have zero dependable depth next year at more positions than the ones where they have good depth.
Who's the starting Slot CB? Boyd? Older FA yet to be signed? Rookie? Who's the 1st CB up if Hughes or Hill get hurt? What happens if Harris or Smith get hurt? Or Ogdenigbo? Who's the starting 3T? Who's the starting LG?
It's easy/lazy to say FA isn't over. You want to ruin an otherwise fine day go look at PFFs Top 100 remaining FA list. Outside of Clowney, who ain't coming here, it's not pretty. Hell, Griff, who has only put in a good half season the last several years, is in the Top 10 on that list. It's down to picking through has beens and never weres.
Does signing older guys like Logan Ryan or Nikell Roby-Coleman even make sense with a team this young? It does from the perspective that you need 22 Starters and there is no clear Slot CB currently on the team. But they will be old and needing replacing by the time the window opens again.
The Pierce signing was great. But the team needed at least 2 more similar signings. Those signings aren't out there. So it's either Tier 3 FAs or Rookies. Some at Starting spots, others for depth that could get pressed into action if injuries occur.
Man, what happened? Defense was 5th in Scoring, which hardly stinks even though most statistics had it trending down. Offense just needed a Left Guard. Quick retool of the Secondary, fix the LG and make another run.
Now? 9-7 seems pretty much like the ceiling. The team will be crazy young and the depth will either suck or be totally inexperienced. I'm usually the guy looking on the bright side, and there is one here: we get to watch a large wave of young guys develop. By the time they do, it will be time for a new QB. Have fun is that 
|
