It's close and it's a legit debate, but I go with Moss.
Depends on what you mean by greatest. Just like the Rice/Moss debate. Yes, Rice was the better receiver. But was he as dominant, or did he impact the game the way Moss did? Of course not.
Page was a dominant player who had a long career. Helluva guy too. I met him. He became a freaking judge for Christsake. I have no problem calling Page the Viking GOAT, but did he impact the game they way Moss did? I don't think so. He was 2nd team all pro 3 times in his career. Randy Moss was never 2nd team anything.
It probably has more to do with timing than anything else. Randy Moss coincided with the advent of fantasy football and big screen TVs. He didn't play that long, but when football exploded Randy Moss was its best player. Not just the best Viking, but Moss might even be the most dominant player to ever play the game. We were lucky to have witnessed it.
Russell>>Jordan..IMO, it isn't debatable.
Love the Show Guys!! GREAT JOB!!
“Randy was never 2nd anything”...
That’s cuz he sucked when he wasn’t his best. That’s like saying the kid that got 5 As and 3 Bs failed more than the kid that got 3 As and 5 Fs.
In Page’s 14 year career he played well enough to be 1st(6) or 2nd(3) All Pro team for 9 of those years.
In Moss’s 12 year career he played well enough to be 1st All Pro team for 4 of those years.
This isn’t even that close. If Moss was so dominate.... why no League MVP? Why only 1st team 4x in 12 years? Why only 6 pro bowls in 12 years vs 9 pro bowls in 14. Randy was fun/thrilling/insert adjective here to watch and a terriffic weapon to have but he was never recognized as the league’s best player. And Page played well enough and hard enough to be the only defensive player honored during those “defensive dominated times”. The award was created in 1957... and until 1971, only QBs and RBs won the award, so we can probably lose the “those were defensive times” part of the argument. Only 2 defensive players have won the award in 61 years.... but, yeah lets down play that fact because some people didn’t see it.
Alan Page vs The Lions
In Week 13 of 1971, the Vikings hosted the Detroit Lions. In the second quarter after being called for a Personal Foul and a roughing the Passer Penalty on consecutive plays Page sacked QB Greg Landry on First down. On Second down Carl Eller received an offsides penalty, then the Lions were penalized for Holding, when the second down play finally occurred Page tackled Taylor for a 4 yard Rushing Loss. Finally Page tackled Landry for a gain of just two yards on 3rd and 44, ending the drive. In the Fourth quarter, Page Blocked a Lion Punt out the back of the End-zone for a Safety
When people mention it was a different area back when Alan Page played the game, they are right. How would Randy Moss have done when in that area cornerbacks didn't have the "Hands Off" mentality. They would crowd you, shove you and when a receiver caught the ball damn near take you head off. After the incident with Darryl Stingley being hit by Jack "The Assassin" Tatum, that's when rules started to change.
Linemen were accustomed to being hit and punched all the time. I was just the way the game was played back then. To have a player like Alan Page to play like he did and win the accolades that he got was just beyond amazing and incredible.
Quote: @Bezerker88 said:
Randy was fun/thrilling/insert adjective here to watch and a terriffic weapon to have but he was never recognized as the league’s best player.
I think there are several thousand people, players and coaches who would disagree with this. It's all semantics. I wish I hadn't brought up the all pro thing. The MVP thing is equally meaningless because it's comparing apples to aardvarks. Comparing players who played 25 years apart, on different sides of the ball, with different supporting casts, is silly...especially when you consider a DT's impact isn't dependent on anyone. A WR's impact is hugely dependent on his QB.
Again, I have no problem declaring Page the greatest Viking. A lot of "nuance" in that descriptor "greatest" that includes durability and community influence. There were two years during Page's prime where he wasn't the best tackle in the game. Seems hard to fathom a time in Moss' career where he wasn't the best receiver in the game. In his prime, if he was playing and healthy, he was the best.
My bottom is that no one--on the Vikings or any other team--had quite the impact on the game as Randy Moss. If you disagree with that, fine.
Quote: @Sir Viking Bob VWO said:
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Thank you for listening!!
Quote: @Canthony said:
@ Poiple said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I have to agree, the greatest Viking ever has to be Page, from what he did on the field in purple, to what he did in his post playing days, to what he continues to do, using the fame that his days as a Viking gave him with the connections and resources that came from both of his remarkable professional careers, this has to be Page hands down, no questions asked.
Moss had a huge impact on the game itself, and largely was miscast by the media and wrongfully judged his first time here, but as a Viking he really didnt do much positively to set himself apart and no offense to him as he was traded away and may have become that guy, but being a sports commentator isnt really changing lives either.
Randall McDaniel kind of perfected the undersized athletic G IMO, he was as dominant at that position as we will likely ever see, add to that he was a great representative off the field and continues to give back to the community through various childrens groups makes him a close second IMO.
I have loved all those players, some more than others, but these 2 above really kind of set the bar for me when I think of truly "Great" Vikings.
I think Fran is a turd, and as great of a football player as AD was, I dont think I could ever really think of him as an all time great in terms of a lifetime representing the team. Not trying to diss the rest of the guys on the list, they may be doing great things away from the game that I am unaware of and deserve more recognition.
I like your write up a lot and respect your opinion. I agree with all of it except For me it is still Moss by a large margin.
I agree and I respect the write up as well Jimmy.
That was a different era. IMO its like comparing Bill Russell to Michael Jordan. Many say its Bill... Well, many were not even on the planet in 69' and its Jordan with a bullet.
Good for Page. Different era where defenses dominated a passing game that was damn near non existent in comparison to the way Moss revolutionized offense.
I guess in an era where kickers kicked straight on... shouldn't be on the same level as how the game has evolved. IMO
No question Moss was a great player most of the time.
Moss also greatly benefited from rules changes that greatly favored passing the ball. Exactly what did Moss do to revolutionalize offense that guys like Jerry Rice, Tim Brown and Terrell Owens weren't already doing? Go deep? He may have done it better based on his physical talent but I don't know that I see any real changes to the game. It's not like they changed the rules to shut guys like him down. It was quite the opposite.
Quote: @Purplewhizz said:
@ Canthony said:
@ Poiple said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I have to agree, the greatest Viking ever has to be Page, from what he did on the field in purple, to what he did in his post playing days, to what he continues to do, using the fame that his days as a Viking gave him with the connections and resources that came from both of his remarkable professional careers, this has to be Page hands down, no questions asked.
Moss had a huge impact on the game itself, and largely was miscast by the media and wrongfully judged his first time here, but as a Viking he really didnt do much positively to set himself apart and no offense to him as he was traded away and may have become that guy, but being a sports commentator isnt really changing lives either.
Randall McDaniel kind of perfected the undersized athletic G IMO, he was as dominant at that position as we will likely ever see, add to that he was a great representative off the field and continues to give back to the community through various childrens groups makes him a close second IMO.
I have loved all those players, some more than others, but these 2 above really kind of set the bar for me when I think of truly "Great" Vikings.
I think Fran is a turd, and as great of a football player as AD was, I dont think I could ever really think of him as an all time great in terms of a lifetime representing the team. Not trying to diss the rest of the guys on the list, they may be doing great things away from the game that I am unaware of and deserve more recognition.
I like your write up a lot and respect your opinion. I agree with all of it except For me it is still Moss by a large margin.
I agree and I respect the write up as well Jimmy.
That was a different era. IMO its like comparing Bill Russell to Michael Jordan. Many say its Bill... Well, many were not even on the planet in 69' and its Jordan with a bullet.
Good for Page. Different era where defenses dominated a passing game that was damn near non existent in comparison to the way Moss revolutionized offense.
I guess in an era where kickers kicked straight on... shouldn't be on the same level as how the game has evolved. IMO
No question Moss was a great player most of the time.
Moss also greatly benefited from rules changes that greatly favored passing the ball. Exactly what did Moss do to revolutionalize offense that guys like Jerry Rice, Tim Brown and Terrell Owens weren't already doing? Go deep? He may have done it better based on his physical talent but I don't know that I see any real changes to the game. It's not like they changed the rules to shut guys like him down. It was quite the opposite.
Your questions and points have little to do with the matter.
If you can not see how dominant Moss was then you will never see it. I dont really care a bit.
Quote: @KyVikesFan11 said:
My pleasure! I love listening to other podcasts to see where I may be able to improve the one I am involved with. and I thought I had an accent...
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