Quote: @StickyBun said:
Sources from Denver are now saying this morning that their due diligence with Cousins is coming back that he's going to sign with Minnesota....this coming after hearing something similar from the Jets a day or so ago.
Interesting. It sure seems like there's something to this. Jets either throw giant contract his way or he's a Viking.
Think we can get a QB to start 2 years straight for the first time sine the 16 game season became a thing?
I simply cannot wrap my head around Cousins being our QB for big $'s. Not even small $'s. I don't believe he is anything but average - good. He has consistently not shown up for the big games, I also believe his record vs. teams with winning records is horrible. Personally Ill be sick if we sign him. I just don't see the hype with this guy. I'd rather have TB or Case with Sloter as Back up. Even Bradford (sounds like his knee is bad for him long term, but short term we might squeeze out one more quality year - with Sloter developing behind him). I just do not want Cousins. I see it setting us back for years to come if we open up the big payday for this guy. JMO
Quote: @NorthernCalVike said:
I simply cannot wrap my head around Cousins being our QB for big $'s. Not even small $'s. I don't believe he is anything but average - good. He has consistently not shown up for the big games, I also believe his record vs. teams with winning records is horrible. Personally Ill be sick if we sign him. I just don't see the hype with this guy. I'd rather have TB or Case with Sloter as Back up. Even Bradford (sounds like his knee is bad for him long term, but short term we might squeeze out one more quality year - with Sloter developing behind him). I just do not want Cousins. I see it setting us back for years to come if we open up the big payday for this guy. JMO
I mostly agree. I think Case would do just about as well, for less money. However, I also realize and trust that RS, Zim, and Flipper know a hell of a lot more than me about who they want/get at QB. Hell, I didn't like the Bradford trade becase of Sam's winning record. Now I'd love to see a healthy Sam as our QB.
If we get Cousins, all we can do is hope it works out.
Quote: @NorthernCalVike said:
I simply cannot wrap my head around Cousins being our QB for big $'s. Not even small $'s. I don't believe he is anything but average - good. He has consistently not shown up for the big games, I also believe his record vs. teams with winning records is horrible. Personally Ill be sick if we sign him. I just don't see the hype with this guy. I'd rather have TB or Case with Sloter as Back up. Even Bradford (sounds like his knee is bad for him long term, but short term we might squeeze out one more quality year - with Sloter developing behind him). I just do not want Cousins. I see it setting us back for years to come if we open up the big payday for this guy. JMO
That is fair but the record vs winning teams stats is flimsy at best.
Does he play defense? Their defense gave up and average of 23 or 24 points the last 3 years.
His first year starting was 2015. He took them to the playoffs.
He second year starting they finished 8-7-1 just missing the playoffs. He drove them to the leading score of 17-13 with 1:05 left vs the Lions only to see his defense give up the game winning drive. He drove them to the 16 yard line in overtime vs the Bengals only to see the kicker miss. They win those two games and they finish 10-6 and make the playoffs.
Last year was his third year starting and they decided to not re-sign his top two receivers and brought in Terrelle Pryor who did nothing. The running game was ranked 28th too. They finished 7-9.
So really, the Redskins should have made the playoffs his first two seasons starting which is pretty dang good when you consider how awful their defense was in that time span.
To blame him solely for the losses vs teams with winning records is not useful unless you review every game and point to where it was his fault.
Like 2015, the defense gave up 32 pts vs the Giants, 25 vs the Falcons, 34 vs the Jets, 27 vs the Patriots, 44 vs the Panthers, & 35 vs the Packers.
In 2016, the defense gave up 38 pts vs the Steelers, 27 vs the Cowboys, 31 vs the Cowboys, 31 vs the Cardinals, 26 vs the Panthers, and 19 vs the Giants.
It is no use looking at last year because the Redskins did nothing to really help him. They would have been better off paying Garcon instead of Pryor who only had one year of production.
In Cousin's first 3 years starting he has accounted for 94 TDs and 47 turnovers. That is top 6 for QBs in the NFL in that time span.
The Vikings QBs did not put up that many TDs that is for dang sure.
The Vikings defense gave up more than 22 points 4 times last year. 26 vs the Steelers, 30 vs the Redskins (and Cousins), 23 vs the Lions, and 31 vs the Panthers.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ PurplePastor said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PSBLAKE said:
I like Cousins and I think it would be a great signing
at what price? its not really if cousins would be a good player for us, its about how much do you spend for what he brings to the table. some of us are saying that the reported 30+ is way way to much for the amount of upside he has over the rest of the options.
If we sign cousins at 30 its going to hurt. The questions will stir because he'll be it for FA this year besides some low level stuff. Will Kirk be enough to get us over the hump or are we destine for mediocrity with a high prices QB just like several other teams that got good with cheap QBs only to lose great players to time or money.
I've been back and forth and back and forth and forth and back again on who the "right guy" is and I keep coming back to a higher teen level contract for Case which after the Jags signed bortles is probably where he'd end up at. This still gives us plenty to pick up a couple mid tier guys etc. Case was good enough last year, he is loved by his teammates and additional chemistry can't hurt. If you front load a Case contract with outs after this next year I can't see how its a losing plan.
to barely get us to the NFC championship game in his absolute best season ever. In fact, after such a season, our head coach wasn't even convinced enough to give him a confident endorsement.
Sure as heck wasn't Keenum's fault nobody showed up for the NFCC game. Brady wouldn't have won that game. Our defense never boarded the plane to Philly and they're the money maker and identity of our team.
No, the pick 6 had nothing to do with the loss. The fumble on the subsequent drive (not necessarily Case's fault) didn't affect the game either. In fact I think the offense would have score enough points to be competitive if only our defense wasn't defending our offensive players as well.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ PurplePastor said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PSBLAKE said:
I like Cousins and I think it would be a great signing
at what price? its not really if cousins would be a good player for us, its about how much do you spend for what he brings to the table. some of us are saying that the reported 30+ is way way to much for the amount of upside he has over the rest of the options.
If we sign cousins at 30 its going to hurt. The questions will stir because he'll be it for FA this year besides some low level stuff. Will Kirk be enough to get us over the hump or are we destine for mediocrity with a high prices QB just like several other teams that got good with cheap QBs only to lose great players to time or money.
I've been back and forth and back and forth and forth and back again on who the "right guy" is and I keep coming back to a higher teen level contract for Case which after the Jags signed bortles is probably where he'd end up at. This still gives us plenty to pick up a couple mid tier guys etc. Case was good enough last year, he is loved by his teammates and additional chemistry can't hurt. If you front load a Case contract with outs after this next year I can't see how its a losing plan.
to barely get us to the NFC championship game in his absolute best season ever. In fact, after such a season, our head coach wasn't even convinced enough to give him a confident endorsement.
Sure as heck wasn't Keenum's fault nobody showed up for the NFCC game. Brady wouldn't have won that game. Our defense never boarded the plane to Philly and they're the money maker and identity of our team.
No, the pick 6 had nothing to do with the loss. The fumble on the subsequent drive (not necessarily Case's fault) didn't affect the game either. In fact I think the offense would have score enough points to be competitive if only our defense wasn't defending our offensive players as well.
that was forgiven, just like that lack of checking out of the play that caused the fumble when the D set up in an un-blockable formation for a guy to try and throw out of from the pocket ( its been said that Case was supposed to be rolling away from that side and that fumble was in fact on him.... i dont know either way, but he is the "leader" on the field so since it was a shit play with shit execution....who else would it be on?)
Quote: @StickyBun said:
Sources from Denver are now saying this morning that their due diligence with Cousins is coming back that he's going to sign with Minnesota....this coming after hearing something similar from the Jets a day or so ago.
Interesting. It sure seems like there's something to this. Jets either throw giant contract his way or he's a Viking.
There have been reports from the Jets and Cardinals as well with sources saying those teams believe Cousins will sign with Minnesota. Definitely seems like there is something to this.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
http://www.startribune.com/sign-kirk-cou...475824603/
These kind of articles get old. Doesn't have to be one or the other. Bottom line is the team has a realistic 2 maybe 3 year window tops. I am not going to worry about who needs what contract in 2020 or 2021 when we don't know what kind of players they will be at that point or if they are even in the league.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ NorthernCalVike said:
I simply cannot wrap my head around Cousins being our QB for big $'s. Not even small $'s. I don't believe he is anything but average - good. He has consistently not shown up for the big games, I also believe his record vs. teams with winning records is horrible. Personally Ill be sick if we sign him. I just don't see the hype with this guy. I'd rather have TB or Case with Sloter as Back up. Even Bradford (sounds like his knee is bad for him long term, but short term we might squeeze out one more quality year - with Sloter developing behind him). I just do not want Cousins. I see it setting us back for years to come if we open up the big payday for this guy. JMO
That is fair but the record vs winning teams stats is flimsy at best.
Does he play defense? Their defense gave up and average of 23 or 24 points the last 3 years.
His first year starting was 2015. He took them to the playoffs.
He second year starting they finished 8-7-1 just missing the playoffs. He drove them to the leading score of 17-13 with 1:05 left vs the Lions only to see his defense give up the game winning drive. He drove them to the 16 yard line in overtime vs the Bengals only to see the kicker miss. They win those two games and they finish 10-6 and make the playoffs.
Last year was his third year starting and they decided to not re-sign his top two receivers and brought in Terrelle Pryor who did nothing. The running game was ranked 28th too. They finished 7-9.
So really, the Redskins should have made the playoffs his first two seasons starting which is pretty dang good when you consider how awful their defense was in that time span.
To blame him solely for the losses vs teams with winning records is not useful unless you review every game and point to where it was his fault.
Like 2015, the defense gave up 32 pts vs the Giants, 25 vs the Falcons, 34 vs the Jets, 27 vs the Patriots, 44 vs the Panthers, & 35 vs the Packers.
In 2016, the defense gave up 38 pts vs the Steelers, 27 vs the Cowboys, 31 vs the Cowboys, 31 vs the Cardinals, 26 vs the Panthers, and 19 vs the Giants.
It is no use looking at last year because the Redskins did nothing to really help him. They would have been better off paying Garcon instead of Pryor who only had one year of production.
In Cousin's first 3 years starting he has accounted for 94 TDs and 47 turnovers. That is top 6 for QBs in the NFL in that time span.
The Vikings QBs did not put up that many TDs that is for dang sure.
The Vikings defense gave up more than 22 points 4 times last year. 26 vs the Steelers, 30 vs the Redskins (and Cousins), 23 vs the Lions, and 31 vs the Panthers.
I'll start with the games you mentioned in 2015, since the Redskins were such a bad team that Cousins carried...
@ Giants - Cousins 30/49 - 316 yards - 6.4 YPA - 1 TD - 2 INT - 69.8 Rating
1st INT was straight to Amukamara on a pass from the Redskins 9, which Amukamara returned to the Redskins 16 giving the Giants the ball inside the redzone. The second INT, the Redskins were in FG range and Cousins forced the ball, popped up and INT. Bad outing by Cousins.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015092400...0000538393&tab=analyze
@ Atlanta - Cousins 21/32 - 219 yards - 6.8 YPA - 1 TD - 2 INT - 69.7 Rating
The game went into overtime and Cousins threw the winning TD, however, it was for the wrong team. Ryan didn't have a TD pass and the Redskins D picked him off twice...
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015101103...0000556387&tab=analyze
@ Jets - Cousins 25/43 - 196 yards - 4.6 YPA - 1 TD - 2 INT - 57.9 Rating
The Redskins D caused 3 TO in the first half, directly leading to the Redskins first 13 points. Like before, Cousins threw an INT to the Jets inside the Redskins' 20, the score was tied 13-13 at that point in the 3rd...
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015101801...0000560034&tab=videos
@NE - Cousins 22/40 - 217 yards - 5.4 YPA - 1 TD - 1 INT - 68.4 Rating
Watch the highlights for yourself, but that's some bad QBing.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015110802...0000574964&tab=videos
@Carolina - 22/30 - 207 yards - 6.9 YPA - 1 TD - 1 INT - 89.2 Rating - 2 lost fumbles
INT by Cousins leads to short field and Panthers first score. The Fumbles came on back-to-back plays which the Panthers scored on both with short fields... Good thing fumbles don't show up in the rating.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015112206...0000588406&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay
Vs. GB - 29/46 - 329 yards - 7.2 YPA - 1 TD - 0 INT - 91.7 Rating - 1 Rushing TD - 1 lost fumble
The first not bad game by Cousins out of these. Nice. The Cousins fumble lead to a FG for GB, then a 3 and out by the Redskins and GB takes the lead into halftime 17-11. The Redskins have a nice drive after halftime, and take the lead 18-17. From that point, the Redskins drives were Punt, Punt, Downs, Downs, Downs.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016011001...0000623554&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay
The defense seemed pretty good to me, in fact, I would say the QB of the Redskins was the problem in all of the games except maybe the GB game (but the offense sure did stall).
Quote: @silverjoel said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ NorthernCalVike said:
I simply cannot wrap my head around Cousins being our QB for big $'s. Not even small $'s. I don't believe he is anything but average - good. He has consistently not shown up for the big games, I also believe his record vs. teams with winning records is horrible. Personally Ill be sick if we sign him. I just don't see the hype with this guy. I'd rather have TB or Case with Sloter as Back up. Even Bradford (sounds like his knee is bad for him long term, but short term we might squeeze out one more quality year - with Sloter developing behind him). I just do not want Cousins. I see it setting us back for years to come if we open up the big payday for this guy. JMO
That is fair but the record vs winning teams stats is flimsy at best.
Does he play defense? Their defense gave up and average of 23 or 24 points the last 3 years.
His first year starting was 2015. He took them to the playoffs.
He second year starting they finished 8-7-1 just missing the playoffs. He drove them to the leading score of 17-13 with 1:05 left vs the Lions only to see his defense give up the game winning drive. He drove them to the 16 yard line in overtime vs the Bengals only to see the kicker miss. They win those two games and they finish 10-6 and make the playoffs.
Last year was his third year starting and they decided to not re-sign his top two receivers and brought in Terrelle Pryor who did nothing. The running game was ranked 28th too. They finished 7-9.
So really, the Redskins should have made the playoffs his first two seasons starting which is pretty dang good when you consider how awful their defense was in that time span.
To blame him solely for the losses vs teams with winning records is not useful unless you review every game and point to where it was his fault.
Like 2015, the defense gave up 32 pts vs the Giants, 25 vs the Falcons, 34 vs the Jets, 27 vs the Patriots, 44 vs the Panthers, & 35 vs the Packers.
In 2016, the defense gave up 38 pts vs the Steelers, 27 vs the Cowboys, 31 vs the Cowboys, 31 vs the Cardinals, 26 vs the Panthers, and 19 vs the Giants.
It is no use looking at last year because the Redskins did nothing to really help him. They would have been better off paying Garcon instead of Pryor who only had one year of production.
In Cousin's first 3 years starting he has accounted for 94 TDs and 47 turnovers. That is top 6 for QBs in the NFL in that time span.
The Vikings QBs did not put up that many TDs that is for dang sure.
The Vikings defense gave up more than 22 points 4 times last year. 26 vs the Steelers, 30 vs the Redskins (and Cousins), 23 vs the Lions, and 31 vs the Panthers.
I'll start with the games you mentioned in 2015, since the Redskins were such a bad team that Cousins carried...
@ Giants - Cousins 30/49 - 316 yards - 6.4 YPA - 1 TD - 2 INT - 69.8 Rating
1st INT was straight to Amukamara on a pass from the Redskins 9, which Amukamara returned to the Redskins 16 giving the Giants the ball inside the redzone. The second INT, the Redskins were in FG range and Cousins forced the ball, popped up and INT. Bad outing by Cousins.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015092400...0000538393&tab=analyze
@ Atlanta - Cousins 21/32 - 219 yards - 6.8 YPA - 1 TD - 2 INT - 69.7 Rating
The game went into overtime and Cousins threw the winning TD, however, it was for the wrong team. Ryan didn't have a TD pass and the Redskins D picked him off twice...
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015101103...0000556387&tab=analyze
@ Jets - Cousins 25/43 - 196 yards - 4.6 YPA - 1 TD - 2 INT - 57.9 Rating
The Redskins D caused 3 TO in the first half, directly leading to the Redskins first 13 points. Like before, Cousins threw an INT to the Jets inside the Redskins' 20, the score was tied 13-13 at that point in the 3rd...
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015101801...0000560034&tab=videos
@NE - Cousins 22/40 - 217 yards - 5.4 YPA - 1 TD - 1 INT - 68.4 Rating
Watch the highlights for yourself, but that's some bad QBing.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015110802...0000574964&tab=videos
@Carolina - 22/30 - 207 yards - 6.9 YPA - 1 TD - 1 INT - 89.2 Rating - 2 lost fumbles
INT by Cousins leads to short field and Panthers first score. The Fumbles came on back-to-back plays which the Panthers scored on both with short fields... Good thing fumbles don't show up in the rating.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015112206...0000588406&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay
Vs. GB - 29/46 - 329 yards - 7.2 YPA - 1 TD - 0 INT - 91.7 Rating - 1 Rushing TD - 1 lost fumble
The first not bad game by Cousins out of these. Nice. The Cousins fumble lead to a FG for GB, then a 3 and out by the Redskins and GB takes the lead into halftime 17-11. The Redskins have a nice drive after halftime, and take the lead 18-17. From that point, the Redskins drives were Punt, Punt, Downs, Downs, Downs.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016011001...0000623554&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay
The defense seemed pretty good to me, in fact, I would say the QB of the Redskins was the problem in all of the games except maybe the GB game (but the offense sure did stall).
OK.
This is still criticizing a QB who was beginning his first year as the starter. Prior to that he started 8 games when RG3 was out.
This is criticizing a player with less than one year of experience in games vs winning teams. And the Redskins still went to the playoffs. Must have been because of the defense.
In 2015, that basically rookie season, he completed 379 out of 543 passes for 4,166 yards with 29 TDs and 11 INTs. His passer rating was 101.6 (which was 5th in the NFL) and his QBR rating was 71.7 (which was 2nd in the NFL).
It seems to me that there are plenty of people who just do not like, do not want, and/or do not want to pay, Cousins.
His numbers are very very good.
Interesting that the Vikings are 6 days away from the legal tampering period and STILL have not decided on one of the current 3.
|
