Quote: @"Scoog" said:
@"golfervike" said:
@"headhunt23" said:
@"golfervike" said:
"Because, right now many folks have nice big chubbies for Case because he’s winning games and he’s seemingly playing decently. They aren’t noticing that Keenum is getting bailed out by his WRs on lots of catches and that he could easily have more INTs due to how inaccurate some of his passes are. And they are ignoring his history of being a journeyman back up QB.
If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call. "
so this entire lengthy post is basically summed up by literally saying nothing. "seemingly playing decent" "bailed out by WR's" "history of being a Journyman backup QB"....
this is hyperbole, it means absolutely nothing. all just fun catch phrases, and maybe's, hypothetical. News flash, great WR's want the ball just thrown up to them, and let them go make a play...
And this is under the assumption that some seem to have that Teddy is a top 10 QB in this league.
Again- the infatuation with the QB2 in this town is simply amazing. It's amazing some fans want a QB who was middling, at best his first two years. Then is off 18 months away from the game from a horrific injury.
First of all, the word you looking for is “assumption” not “hyperbole”. There is absolutely nothing hyperbolic about what I wrote. I do make lots of assumption, mainly that Case Keenum is Case Keenum and will remain Case Keenum.
And I make those assumptions because, as doucey as this sounds, because I know you are too, I’m watching the games.
in Keenum I see a QB that makes 4-5 totally WTF throws a game. You can get by with that when youre playing the Browns or the Aaron Rodgers-less Packers (when he threw one pick and had defenders get hands on three more which they dropped). You arent going to get by with it against Philly.
I also see a QB whose stats are boosted by the play calling in the Red Zone. Yes. Keenum has 4 TD passes yesterday. Average distance traveled was about 4 yards. The long was about 7. In 2015 We run the ball in that situation, which is one of the reasons Teddy’s TD numbers were always low. Hell, in 2014 Matt Asiata had like 9 rushing TDs.
I also see a QB who lacks the arm strength to thrownthe 20 yard out. Keenum is good at throwing fly routes (and actually Ponder was decent at this as well), and other routes where he doesn’t have to put a zip on the ball. I’d say its great he knows this linitation, but he just tried throwing a 15 yard out to Rudolph that was almost returned for a TD when he threw it late and didnt see the safety.
Lastly I see a QB playing behind a top 10 offensive line, which is a far better unit than we had in 2015, throwing to WRs that are better than we had in 2015, and in an offensive system that is better designed for the QB instead of for the RB.
Regardless, watch the Saints or the Pats or the Steelers. Count the number of WTF moments those QBs have. Then count up Keenum’s. He will make 3-4 more of those a game, and those 3-4 are often the difference between winning and losing.
Case Keenum is a GREAT back up. I LOVE him as a back up. So glad he gas been here and hes a beautiful success story for Rick for getting him in here. But he wont beat Brees or Brady in the playoffs.
And Ill admit that Teddy might not either. Because Teddy usually gave us 2 or so WTF moments a week. But hes a better bet than Keenum.
I agree with what you said on almost all counts, i just worry Teddy is going to be far worse than Keenum in the immediate, and i dont think a player should lose his spot when they're winning and he's contributing to winning, and he's got the locker room behind him.
Why would Zimmer and Shurmer put him in if there was a chance Teddy would be far worse? The unspoken assumption about putting Teddy in is that what the coaches are seeing from him in practice is as good as what they're seeing from Case. If Teddy's looking really rusty in practice, then of course no Viking fan wants him in yet.
i would take it a step further and say if Teddy was looking the same or only marginally better in practice there wouldnt be an upside to moving him ahead of Case. I think Cases strong first half this week along with the current condition of the team regarding record and playoffs will make this a terribly difficult decision, and am glad that I dont have to make it.
@JimmyinSD.
i thinknthe reality is that Case is good for one half of good football a week. Against the Steelers and Lions it was none
agsinst the Redskins and Bucs it was the first,against the Packers it was quarters 1 and 3. against the Bears, Ravens, Browns it was the second half.
you just have to hold on during the rest of the game.
Quote: @"headhunt23" said:
@"golfervike" said:
"Because, right now many folks have nice big chubbies for Case because he’s winning games and he’s seemingly playing decently. They aren’t noticing that Keenum is getting bailed out by his WRs on lots of catches and that he could easily have more INTs due to how inaccurate some of his passes are. And they are ignoring his history of being a journeyman back up QB.
If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call. "
so this entire lengthy post is basically summed up by literally saying nothing. "seemingly playing decent" "bailed out by WR's" "history of being a Journyman backup QB"....
this is hyperbole, it means absolutely nothing. all just fun catch phrases, and maybe's, hypothetical. News flash, great WR's want the ball just thrown up to them, and let them go make a play...
And this is under the assumption that some seem to have that Teddy is a top 10 QB in this league.
Again- the infatuation with the QB2 in this town is simply amazing. It's amazing some fans want a QB who was middling, at best his first two years. Then is off 18 months away from the game from a horrific injury.
Regardless, watch the Saints or the Pats or the Steelers. Count the number of WTF moments those QBs have. Then count up Keenum’s.
First, I have already said I don’t really know what I’d do in this situation. I made a comment on another thread that I am reminded of the ‘98 season with the QB issue the Vikings have.
You are saying that Keenum is not Brees, Brady, or Big Ben. I understand that. Few are. However, I don’t see where Teddy has shown he is one of those 3 either. He has had plenty of WTF moments. Some having to do with when he has been hesitant to chuck the ball up and let a WR make a play. All of those guys mentioned have, as has Keenum.
I’d love to see the Vikings have an elite QB. Thatis why I’d like to see Teddy and Keenum back next season with Sloter (everyone’s practice squad MVP) as well as a drafted QB.
I think both Teddy and Case bring an excitement to the huddle. I think you need that, I think the team needs to believe the QB can get the job done. I think they believe in Case and Teddy.
Great write up, HH...truly enjoyed it...
I definitely understand the folks looking at the QB metrics and drawing pretty reasonable conclusions about Case...
BUT, Case is like the guy rolling a hard 7 back to back to back to back to back...his production just isn't sustainable, much like our D performance wasn't sustainable at the start of 2016...He's been playing effective ball with a pop-gun arm and spotty accuracy...it's a bad combo...
Like I said three weeks ago, Case is approaching his expiration date...let him saddle up one more time while Teddy focuses this week and next prepping for the Lions...then turn over this QB friendly scheme Shurmur has devised to a true QB 1 caliber player...
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
Great write up, HH...truly enjoyed it...
I definitely understand the folks looking at the QB metrics and drawing pretty reasonable conclusions about Case...
BUT, Case is like the guy rolling a hard 7 back to back to back to back to back...his production just isn't sustainable, much like our D performance wasn't sustainable at the start of 2016...He's been playing effective ball with a pop-gun arm and spotty accuracy...it's a bad combo...
Like I said three weeks ago, Case is approaching his expiration date...let him saddle up one more time while Teddy focuses this week and next prepping for the Lions...then turn over this QB friendly scheme Shurmur has devised to a true QB 1 caliber player...
agree except the fact that we have to prepare for the Rams this week. You really can't divide the focus. Coaches, game plan, the rest of the offense have a job to do this week. And Teddy as backup would be part of that plan. It would be a distraction and not fair to the rest of the team.
IMO, a short week is not the time to make the switch. It happens now or after Detroit. But that is getting late IMO.
I could be wrong, but I believe typically prior to a short week there is some prep already occurring for the Thursday game...Give Teddy that work...the other benefit to starting Teddy Thursday is he gets more recovery time...
Good discussion, all. And civil, too. Love the initial post, but disagree in two respects. First, no one with half a brain was overlooking Atlanta in 1998. Overlook a 14-2 team in the NFC Championship game? With the Vikings pedigree? Do you KNOW how hard it is to go 14-2? Cautious optimism is the best any realistic fan could have mustered. Second, no way on earth Brad Johnson should have started over Cunningham against the Falcons. Cunningham was the best QB for that team (strip sack at the end of Q1 and underthrow of Moss in OT notwithstanding). But I agree with you on Case. While all QB's have "WTF" throws, Keenum has more than his share. His bad decisions have often come up golden. Why? Fate, luck, whatever... my eyes tell me Keenum is not taking this team to the Super Bowl.
Big chubbies for Case? Where? Not here, most of the posters here are shooting goo all over their Teddy posters every night.
As for 98 and whatever other history lessons people have been trotting out all week, they are irrelevant because this isn't history this is now and CK is not Randall C. who I would agree was a playoff choker and actually fumbled 3 times in that game, the late 1st half one clearly being the momentum shifter, but, in his defense the self-styled genius Billick had 1:17 to go in the half at our 18 yard line and called 3 straight passes with a 20-7 lead and Robert Smith in the backfield. The staff for that team were the real chokers, failing in the playoffs numerous times.
Anyway, that old shit has nothing to do with today or with CK, who is doing a good job and I can't imagine the outcome if he's yanked based on whim, sentiment, history "lessons" or who knows what. Big mistake imo.
Quote: @"Riphawkins" said:
@"headhunt23" said:
@"golfervike" said:
"Because, right now many folks have nice big chubbies for Case because he’s winning games and he’s seemingly playing decently. They aren’t noticing that Keenum is getting bailed out by his WRs on lots of catches and that he could easily have more INTs due to how inaccurate some of his passes are. And they are ignoring his history of being a journeyman back up QB.
If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call. "
so this entire lengthy post is basically summed up by literally saying nothing. "seemingly playing decent" "bailed out by WR's" "history of being a Journyman backup QB"....
this is hyperbole, it means absolutely nothing. all just fun catch phrases, and maybe's, hypothetical. News flash, great WR's want the ball just thrown up to them, and let them go make a play...
And this is under the assumption that some seem to have that Teddy is a top 10 QB in this league.
Again- the infatuation with the QB2 in this town is simply amazing. It's amazing some fans want a QB who was middling, at best his first two years. Then is off 18 months away from the game from a horrific injury.
Regardless, watch the Saints or the Pats or the Steelers. Count the number of WTF moments those QBs have. Then count up Keenum’s.
First, I have already said I don’t really know what I’d do in this situation. I made a comment on another thread that I am reminded of the ‘98 season with the QB issue the Vikings have.
You are saying that Keenum is not Brees, Brady, or Big Ben. I understand that. Few are. However, I don’t see where Teddy has shown he is one of those 3 either. He has had plenty of WTF moments. Some having to do with when he has been hesitant to chuck the ball up and let a WR make a play. All of those guys mentioned have, as has Keenum.
I’d love to see the Vikings have an elite QB. Thatis why I’d like to see Teddy and Keenum back next season with Sloter (everyone’s practice squad MVP) as well as a drafted QB.
I think both Teddy and Case bring an excitement to the huddle. I think you need that, I think the team needs to believe the QB can get the job done. I think they believe in Case and Teddy.
I'm not sure there is anyway they are both here next year, at least very little chance. If they stay with Chase this season it will be because he has continued to play well then even if they lose in the playoffs they'll almost be 'forced' to offer him a significant contract. In that situation I see the NFLPA trying to undo Teddy's tolled contract(if that is what it actually is so many conflicting reports). For this reason they need to get Teddy in sooner rather than later, the later we get the bigger the ramifications.
I don't think there is any chance Teddy gets on the field if he isn't showing well in practice-Zimmer wouldn't look past that because of some man crush.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
Good post, Headhunt. I said the same thing about the Johnson/Cunningham debate way back then and I'm saying the same thing now. Don't be fooled by Keenum.
I don't think the coaches are going to be fooled by Keenum
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