Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"medaille" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
"All of a sudden, Minnesota owns a two-game grip on the NFC’s final wild-card spot. And when you remember that Justin Jefferson has missed most of this improbable win streak, it’s easy to get excited about this story. Worry about the future later; what’s happening with Josh Dobbs and everyone else is simply too fun." -FoxSports.com
Would the excitement level be the same if Cousins was still the QB? Or is the added element of mobility from the QB spot to the offense the spark that has rejuvenated the fans?
Most fans predicted a winning record through this streak of games ( not perfection, but winning ) but I dont think many saw the possibility of making a real run until Dobbs started running.
I do think there would be a buzz about the team if Cousins
was the QB through this run, but I think it’s less about the running and more
about the improbability of winning and the newness of things. When guy comes in cold and wins you two games
without really knowing the offense, there’s some air of magic about that, and
while Cousins play is probably fairly predictable, this is new and somewhat
unpredictable.
Fans would still be excited with wins and Kirko Chainz has new fan equity the last year or so under KOC. But some younger fans like their style points and the Passtronaut is delivering that in spades more than Cousins ever could or would. As you mention, the unpredictability of Dobbs could leave everyone cold at some point. Cousins is a known, highly productive quantity.
How many more sacks would Cousins have taken the last couple weeks often resulting in stalled drives, vs how many more passes would he have completed to keep the chains moving? I dont know but I feel the added mobility to the QB spot is a bigger asset than a better arm down field. It will take a few more weeks before its worth trying ro compare any drive and game stats to get a feeling of what suits KOCs offense better, but the more I see with Dobbs, the more I tend ro think KCs run here is likely over., unless we see a 180 turn around with 3 and outs, sacks and turnovers, the O staying on the field is what most fans want to see. Time will tell though.
Part of me agrees hard with this. You might turn out to be right. Its shocking after getting so used to Cousins being a statue to watching Dobbs.
I've been saying for several years that his lack of mobility is what is holding back our O and making our OL look worse than they are, hope I'm right, not sure how much more crow I can stomach, the taste definitely doesn't grow on a person.
I believe that KOC's first choice is Cousins. By probably a wide margin. But it validates his inner thought that the QBOTF needs to have mobility as part of his skill set.
I think that margin breadth could change greatly over the next couple months. If KOC can continue to scheme the mobility into the game, and Dobbs can make enough plays with his arm to keep JJ, KJ, TJ, and Addison involved, the offense changes in a way that even Cousins superior arm talent likely cant equal. And like others have said, what can an extra 15 million a year do for KOCs roster overall, yes he is an offensive guy, but he is still the HC and has to be able to identify areas of need and recognize what that cap space could mean going forward.
A few bad games by Dobbs could certainly reverse course, but IMO the ship is currently sailing away from Kirk Cousins returning in 24.
Lots of good points being made both ways on this. Good stuff.
Quote: @"StickyBun" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"medaille" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
"All of a sudden, Minnesota owns a two-game grip on the NFC’s final wild-card spot. And when you remember that Justin Jefferson has missed most of this improbable win streak, it’s easy to get excited about this story. Worry about the future later; what’s happening with Josh Dobbs and everyone else is simply too fun." -FoxSports.com
Would the excitement level be the same if Cousins was still the QB? Or is the added element of mobility from the QB spot to the offense the spark that has rejuvenated the fans?
Most fans predicted a winning record through this streak of games ( not perfection, but winning ) but I dont think many saw the possibility of making a real run until Dobbs started running.
I do think there would be a buzz about the team if Cousins
was the QB through this run, but I think it’s less about the running and more
about the improbability of winning and the newness of things. When guy comes in cold and wins you two games
without really knowing the offense, there’s some air of magic about that, and
while Cousins play is probably fairly predictable, this is new and somewhat
unpredictable.
Fans would still be excited with wins and Kirko Chainz has new fan equity the last year or so under KOC. But some younger fans like their style points and the Passtronaut is delivering that in spades more than Cousins ever could or would. As you mention, the unpredictability of Dobbs could leave everyone cold at some point. Cousins is a known, highly productive quantity.
How many more sacks would Cousins have taken the last couple weeks often resulting in stalled drives, vs how many more passes would he have completed to keep the chains moving? I dont know but I feel the added mobility to the QB spot is a bigger asset than a better arm down field. It will take a few more weeks before its worth trying ro compare any drive and game stats to get a feeling of what suits KOCs offense better, but the more I see with Dobbs, the more I tend ro think KCs run here is likely over., unless we see a 180 turn around with 3 and outs, sacks and turnovers, the O staying on the field is what most fans want to see. Time will tell though.
Part of me agrees hard with this. You might turn out to be right. Its shocking after getting so used to Cousins being a statue to watching Dobbs.
I've been saying for several years that his lack of mobility is what is holding back our O and making our OL look worse than they are, hope I'm right, not sure how much more crow I can stomach, the taste definitely doesn't grow on a person.
I believe that KOC's first choice is Cousins. By probably a wide margin. But it validates his inner thought that the QBOTF needs to have mobility as part of his skill set.
I think that margin breadth could change greatly over the next couple months. If KOC can continue to scheme the mobility into the game, and Dobbs can make enough plays with his arm to keep JJ, KJ, TJ, and Addison involved, the offense changes in a way that even Cousins superior arm talent likely cant equal. And like others have said, what can an extra 15 million a year do for KOCs roster overall, yes he is an offensive guy, but he is still the HC and has to be able to identify areas of need and recognize what that cap space could mean going forward.
A few bad games by Dobbs could certainly reverse course, but IMO the ship is currently sailing away from Kirk Cousins returning in 24.
Lots of good points being made both ways on this. Good stuff.
I agree, I could easily play counter point to myself, Kirk injury should lower his FA valve some, and that alone could entice him to sign here for less if he truly does love it here. Question would be for how much. It also might not be just the money, but also terms like guaranteed money, no trade clauses, etc. So many variables at play here it seems futile to even be having "next year" conversations at this point. Hell Kirk could have a set back in his recovery and say screw it, or get an offer he cant refuse from somebody else.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"medaille" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
"All of a sudden, Minnesota owns a two-game grip on the NFC’s final wild-card spot. And when you remember that Justin Jefferson has missed most of this improbable win streak, it’s easy to get excited about this story. Worry about the future later; what’s happening with Josh Dobbs and everyone else is simply too fun." -FoxSports.com
Would the excitement level be the same if Cousins was still the QB? Or is the added element of mobility from the QB spot to the offense the spark that has rejuvenated the fans?
Most fans predicted a winning record through this streak of games ( not perfection, but winning ) but I dont think many saw the possibility of making a real run until Dobbs started running.
I do think there would be a buzz about the team if Cousins
was the QB through this run, but I think it’s less about the running and more
about the improbability of winning and the newness of things. When guy comes in cold and wins you two games
without really knowing the offense, there’s some air of magic about that, and
while Cousins play is probably fairly predictable, this is new and somewhat
unpredictable.
Fans would still be excited with wins and Kirko Chainz has new fan equity the last year or so under KOC. But some younger fans like their style points and the Passtronaut is delivering that in spades more than Cousins ever could or would. As you mention, the unpredictability of Dobbs could leave everyone cold at some point. Cousins is a known, highly productive quantity.
How many more sacks would Cousins have taken the last couple weeks often resulting in stalled drives, vs how many more passes would he have completed to keep the chains moving? I dont know but I feel the added mobility to the QB spot is a bigger asset than a better arm down field. It will take a few more weeks before its worth trying ro compare any drive and game stats to get a feeling of what suits KOCs offense better, but the more I see with Dobbs, the more I tend ro think KCs run here is likely over., unless we see a 180 turn around with 3 and outs, sacks and turnovers, the O staying on the field is what most fans want to see. Time will tell though.
Part of me agrees hard with this. You might turn out to be right. Its shocking after getting so used to Cousins being a statue to watching Dobbs.
I've been saying for several years that his lack of mobility is what is holding back our O and making our OL look worse than they are, hope I'm right, not sure how much more crow I can stomach, the taste definitely doesn't grow on a person.
I believe that KOC's first choice is Cousins. By probably a wide margin. But it validates his inner thought that the QBOTF needs to have mobility as part of his skill set.
I think that margin breadth could change greatly over the next couple months. If KOC can continue to scheme the mobility into the game, and Dobbs can make enough plays with his arm to keep JJ, KJ, TJ, and Addison involved, the offense changes in a way that even Cousins superior arm talent likely cant equal. And like others have said, what can an extra 15 million a year do for KOCs roster overall, yes he is an offensive guy, but he is still the HC and has to be able to identify areas of need and recognize what that cap space could mean going forward.
A few bad games by Dobbs could certainly reverse course, but IMO the ship is currently sailing away from Kirk Cousins returning in 24. I'm leaning this way as well, if Dobbs continues to play well.
The fact is that most teams with mobile QBs draw up 5-10 designed QB runs each game. We're currently averaging 64 plays/game, right around middle of the pack in the NFL. Running even 5 designed QB runs/game doesn't seem like a lot but that's 8%. Throw in 4-5 QB scramble runs too and you now have a sizable new dimension for defenses to worry about.
Especially for a team that's struggling to run the ball the traditional way, that is HUGE. It's been fun to watch and I hope it continues to be successful.
Quote: @"medaille" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
"All of a sudden, Minnesota owns a two-game grip on the NFC’s final wild-card spot. And when you remember that Justin Jefferson has missed most of this improbable win streak, it’s easy to get excited about this story. Worry about the future later; what’s happening with Josh Dobbs and everyone else is simply too fun." -FoxSports.com
Would the excitement level be the same if Cousins was still the QB? Or is the added element of mobility from the QB spot to the offense the spark that has rejuvenated the fans?
Most fans predicted a winning record through this streak of games ( not perfection, but winning ) but I dont think many saw the possibility of making a real run until Dobbs started running.
I do think there would be a buzz about the team if Cousins
was the QB through this run, but I think it’s less about the running and more
about the improbability of winning and the newness of things. When guy comes in cold and wins you two games
without really knowing the offense, there’s some air of magic about that, and
while Cousins play is probably fairly predictable, this is new and somewhat
unpredictable.
Yes, the first 3 games of this winning streak were with Cousins starting. While not as "buzz" worthy as Dobbs making spectacular runs, I don't doubt the result would have been the same. Maybe without the drama of a safety and fumbles in the Atlanta game.
Quote: @"StickyBun" said:
I believe that KOC's first choice is Cousins. By probably a wide margin. But it validates his inner thought that the QBOTF needs to have mobility as part of his skill set.
I don’t think that’s a given at all. We didn’t extend him yet. We’re not really willing to give him a “long
term” deal. I think it seems fairly
clear that we were actively looking for that rookie contract guy. I think KOC has always said flattering things
about all his players, but I don’t think we should read into that too much and
assume they wouldn’t swap him out for a different model if the right option was
there at the right price.
I think if anything, we’ll either learn that this offense
can run with a “lesser and cheaper” QB just fine, or we’ll learn that Dobbs
turns back into a pumpkin. Either way I
think the choice will be obvious at the end of the year. The only way it gets muddled is if Cousins has
to lower his price a lot or if Dobbs raises his price a lot. If Dobbs signed a contract for $10M/year for
any amount of years and maintains this level of competency, I think Cousins is
out without even having to think about it too much, unless we sign them both
and let them compete.
Quote: @"medaille" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
I believe that KOC's first choice is Cousins. By probably a wide margin. But it validates his inner thought that the QBOTF needs to have mobility as part of his skill set.
I don’t think that’s a given at all. We didn’t extend him yet. We’re not really willing to give him a “long
term” deal. I think it seems fairly
clear that we were actively looking for that rookie contract guy. I think KOC has always said flattering things
about all his players, but I don’t think we should read into that too much and
assume they wouldn’t swap him out for a different model if the right option was
there at the right price.
I think if anything, we’ll either learn that this offense
can run with a “lesser and cheaper” QB just fine, or we’ll learn that Dobbs
turns back into a pumpkin. Either way I
think the choice will be obvious at the end of the year. The only way it gets muddled is if Cousins has
to lower his price a lot or if Dobbs raises his price a lot. If Dobbs signed a contract for $10M/year for
any amount of years and maintains this level of competency, I think Cousins is
out without even having to think about it too much, unless we sign them both
and let them compete.
Solid logic here. I just think you're underestimating the relationship between KOC and Cousins. And the command and grasp Kirk has on what KOC wants to do offensively. I think it's huge. I think that KOC's desire, for sure, is to have Cousins return. But the sticking point will be the contract and for how long. JMO.
I wonder if they can have a playoff run for the first time since January 88?
Quote: @"kmillard" said:
I wonder if they can have a playoff run for the first time since January 88?
09?
Quote: @"medaille" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
I believe that KOC's first choice is Cousins. By probably a wide margin. But it validates his inner thought that the QBOTF needs to have mobility as part of his skill set.
I don’t think that’s a given at all. We didn’t extend him yet. We’re not really willing to give him a “long
term” deal. I think it seems fairly
clear that we were actively looking for that rookie contract guy. I think KOC has always said flattering things
about all his players, but I don’t think we should read into that too much and
assume they wouldn’t swap him out for a different model if the right option was
there at the right price.
I think if anything, we’ll either learn that this offense
can run with a “lesser and cheaper” QB just fine, or we’ll learn that Dobbs
turns back into a pumpkin. Either way I
think the choice will be obvious at the end of the year. The only way it gets muddled is if Cousins has
to lower his price a lot or if Dobbs raises his price a lot. If Dobbs signed a contract for $10M/year for
any amount of years and maintains this level of competency, I think Cousins is
out without even having to think about it too much, unless we sign them both
and let them compete.
I see no scenario where Cousins "competes" with Dobbs. But I can see a scenario where Dobbs continues playing well through the playoffs and the Vikings decide that he can be our bridge QB. And a much cheaper one at that.
Problem is that all these decisions have to be made long before the draft. Considering that the Vikings can't know they're going to land a QB in the draft, I doubt they'd feel comfortable handing the '24 Vikings over to Josh Dobbs and Jaren Hall.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"medaille" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
I believe that KOC's first choice is Cousins. By probably a wide margin. But it validates his inner thought that the QBOTF needs to have mobility as part of his skill set.
I don’t think that’s a given at all. We didn’t extend him yet. We’re not really willing to give him a “long
term” deal. I think it seems fairly
clear that we were actively looking for that rookie contract guy. I think KOC has always said flattering things
about all his players, but I don’t think we should read into that too much and
assume they wouldn’t swap him out for a different model if the right option was
there at the right price.
I think if anything, we’ll either learn that this offense
can run with a “lesser and cheaper” QB just fine, or we’ll learn that Dobbs
turns back into a pumpkin. Either way I
think the choice will be obvious at the end of the year. The only way it gets muddled is if Cousins has
to lower his price a lot or if Dobbs raises his price a lot. If Dobbs signed a contract for $10M/year for
any amount of years and maintains this level of competency, I think Cousins is
out without even having to think about it too much, unless we sign them both
and let them compete.
I see no scenario where Cousins "competes" with Dobbs. But I can see a scenario where Dobbs continues playing well through the playoffs and the Vikings decide that he can be our bridge QB. And a much cheaper one at that.
Problem is that all these decisions have to be made long before the draft. Considering that the Vikings can't know they're going to land a QB in the draft, I doubt they'd feel comfortable handing the '24 Vikings over to Josh Dobbs and Jaren Hall.
If Dobbs keeps playing at a high level the rest of the way, and the Vikes makes the playoffs, I'd be more than surprised KC would be offered a new contract. I'd fully expect KOC to roll with Dobbs, Hall, and most likely another rookie QB going into next season leaving Cousins off the Viking's roster. I admit that's a BIG if. Like everyone else, I'm still not convinced Dobbs is "the guy", but if he plays well these next few games, I will be. Dobbs would be a great find for this team not all that unlike what Purdy was to the 49ers.
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