Quote: @"HappyViking" said:
I think Detroit wins the NFCN and we come second and possibly getting a Wild Card invite to the playoffs. Hope we defend our NFCN crown, but I just think that Detroit is loaded on the both sides of the ball.
I like what Detroit is doing. They have a lot of young talent and they should be better this year. Even better next year.
But they're projected to start 10 new players, either rookies are incoming free agents. That's a lot of cohering that needs to happen.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
I think we upgraded the coaching on D, but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball, I am very concerned about our run defense once again, it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover, but that should go with most any defense. I also question if we have made any gains on O, Addison and Nailer, should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed. ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play, but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year, it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement, in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years) all in all, I think we will have a better team, but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs, and once again be picking late teens early 20s.
That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking
You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.
I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade.
And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see.
OK, Eeyore, but you're only seeing the negative. A reasonable person sees the positive and negative and evaluates accordingly.
• No, technically, Fores has never been a DC, but he did call the plays in New England. He didn't get the title because that's how New England does things. What's more, he was such a hot commodity after helping Belichick pitch the lowest scoring Super Bowl in history, he went straight from assistant to head coach.
• I'll give you Tomlinson to Lowry. To me, that's the only real downgrade on our defense and one that has me a little worried.
• Kendricks to Asamoah I'm excited about. You have to admit...Kendricks was horrible last season. Hicks...meh...I'll give you that one too. But watch out for Ivan Pace Jr. That's not just hype. That little bastard can flat play.
• Murphy for PP is a significant upgrade in my eyes. P2 is 33. Murph is 25 and has been uniquely effective in shadow coverage against the likes of Davante Adams and Cooper Kupp. A blitz-heavy teams requires a corner like this.
• Half a sack for Davenport. Fans see sacks; blitzing DCs see pressures. MD was PFF's #1 ranked edge in free agency this year because he recorded a 13% pressure rate in every season since entering the league in 2018. Myles Garrett is the only other player to do that.
Well thanks for the pretty purple clouds Bob Ross, but I don't see them (reasonably) as upgrades and we can't discount the leadership lost in the turnover. Like I said, anything in the realm of 20th or above and Flores should be knighted as coach if the decade and it will be a quick one and done stop for him
The Lion’s defense was actually worse then ours last season, hype doesn’t win divisions…!
Quote: @"supafreak84" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
I think we upgraded the coaching on D, but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball, I am very concerned about our run defense once again, it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover, but that should go with most any defense. I also question if we have made any gains on O, Addison and Nailer, should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed. ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play, but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year, it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement, in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years) all in all, I think we will have a better team, but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs, and once again be picking late teens early 20s.
That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking
You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.
I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade.
And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see.
OK, Eeyore, but you're only seeing the negative. A reasonable person sees the positive and negative and evaluates accordingly.
• No, technically, Fores has never been a DC, but he did call the plays in New England. He didn't get the title because that's how New England does things. What's more, he was such a hot commodity after helping Belichick pitch the lowest scoring Super Bowl in history, he went straight from assistant to head coach.
• I'll give you Tomlinson to Lowry. To me, that's the only real downgrade on our defense and one that has me a little worried.
• Kendricks to Asamoah I'm excited about. You have to admit...Kendricks was horrible last season. Hicks...meh...I'll give you that one too. But watch out for Ivan Pace Jr. That's not just hype. That little bastard can flat play.
• Murphy for PP is a significant upgrade in my eyes. P2 is 33. Murph is 25 and has been uniquely effective in shadow coverage against the likes of Davante Adams and Cooper Kupp. A blitz-heavy teams requires a corner like this.
• Half a sack for Davenport. Fans see sacks; blitzing DCs see pressures. MD was PFF's #1 ranked edge in free agency this year because he recorded a 13% pressure rate in every season since entering the league in 2018. Myles Garrett is the only other player to do that.
Well thanks for the pretty purple clouds Bob Ross, but I don't see them (reasonably) as upgrades and we can't discount the leadership lost in the turnover. Like I said, anything in the realm of 20th or above and Flores should be knighted as coach if the decade and it will be a quick one and done stop for him
You make it sound like improving from 31st to 20th is some unprecedented landmark achievement. That kind of improvement (and decline) is pretty standard in the NFL.
Bengals improved from 26th to 18th and went to the Super Bowl. Chiefs improved from 27th to 11th and went to the Super Bowl by increasing their pressure rate and becoming one of the most blitz happy teams in the NFL. Last year the Ravens improved from 25th to 9th. Sauce was a big factor, but the Jets improved their defense mostly by changing their defensive philosophy and went from 32nd to 4th. Point is, it happens quite a bit.
Quote: @"Kentis" said:
The Lion’s defense was actually worse then ours last season, hype doesn’t win divisions…!
I think that was because they started off fairly crappy. Lions went 8-2 in their last 10 games that included beating GB twice, Bears twice, and a convincing win over our Vikes in December. They have an impressive OL and some really nice young players on D. They've had so many years of top draft picks; I think it's going to really pay off this upcoming season.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
I think we upgraded the coaching on D, but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball, I am very concerned about our run defense once again, it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover, but that should go with most any defense. I also question if we have made any gains on O, Addison and Nailer, should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed. ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play, but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year, it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement, in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years) all in all, I think we will have a better team, but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs, and once again be picking late teens early 20s.
That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking
You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.
I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade.
And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see.
OK, Eeyore, but you're only seeing the negative. A reasonable person sees the positive and negative and evaluates accordingly.
• No, technically, Fores has never been a DC, but he did call the plays in New England. He didn't get the title because that's how New England does things. What's more, he was such a hot commodity after helping Belichick pitch the lowest scoring Super Bowl in history, he went straight from assistant to head coach.
• I'll give you Tomlinson to Lowry. To me, that's the only real downgrade on our defense and one that has me a little worried.
• Kendricks to Asamoah I'm excited about. You have to admit...Kendricks was horrible last season. Hicks...meh...I'll give you that one too. But watch out for Ivan Pace Jr. That's not just hype. That little bastard can flat play.
• Murphy for PP is a significant upgrade in my eyes. P2 is 33. Murph is 25 and has been uniquely effective in shadow coverage against the likes of Davante Adams and Cooper Kupp. A blitz-heavy teams requires a corner like this.
• Half a sack for Davenport. Fans see sacks; blitzing DCs see pressures. MD was PFF's #1 ranked edge in free agency this year because he recorded a 13% pressure rate in every season since entering the league in 2018. Myles Garrett is the only other player to do that.
Well thanks for the pretty purple clouds Bob Ross, but I don't see them (reasonably) as upgrades and we can't discount the leadership lost in the turnover. Like I said, anything in the realm of 20th or above and Flores should be knighted as coach if the decade and it will be a quick one and done stop for him
You make it sound like improving from 31st to 20th is some unprecedented landmark achievement. That kind of improvement (and decline) is pretty standard in the NFL.
Bengals improved from 26th to 18th and went to the Super Bowl. Chiefs improved from 27th to 11th and went to the Super Bowl by increasing their pressure rate and becoming one of the most blitz happy teams in the NFL. Last year the Ravens improved from 25th to 9th. Sauce was a big factor, but the Jets improved their defense mostly by changing their defensive philosophy and went from 32nd to 4th. Point is, it happens quite a bit.
how much of those gains were also accompanied by large investments into their defenses? Some would argue that the only improvement we have made on that side of the ball was to the DC, and while that should be an improvement, we didnt really address any of the glaring needs from the last couple years. I can see a jump in rankings, but I dont see the improvement being enough to really change the outcome of the season or even many games. This team IMO is still going to struggle and unless that horseshoe is still wedged firmly up KOCs ass, the win loss record is likely going to regress from last year.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
I think we upgraded the coaching on D, but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball, I am very concerned about our run defense once again, it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover, but that should go with most any defense. I also question if we have made any gains on O, Addison and Nailer, should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed. ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play, but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year, it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement, in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years) all in all, I think we will have a better team, but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs, and once again be picking late teens early 20s.
That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking
You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.
I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade.
And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see.
OK, Eeyore, but you're only seeing the negative. A reasonable person sees the positive and negative and evaluates accordingly.
• No, technically, Fores has never been a DC, but he did call the plays in New England. He didn't get the title because that's how New England does things. What's more, he was such a hot commodity after helping Belichick pitch the lowest scoring Super Bowl in history, he went straight from assistant to head coach.
• I'll give you Tomlinson to Lowry. To me, that's the only real downgrade on our defense and one that has me a little worried.
• Kendricks to Asamoah I'm excited about. You have to admit...Kendricks was horrible last season. Hicks...meh...I'll give you that one too. But watch out for Ivan Pace Jr. That's not just hype. That little bastard can flat play.
• Murphy for PP is a significant upgrade in my eyes. P2 is 33. Murph is 25 and has been uniquely effective in shadow coverage against the likes of Davante Adams and Cooper Kupp. A blitz-heavy teams requires a corner like this.
• Half a sack for Davenport. Fans see sacks; blitzing DCs see pressures. MD was PFF's #1 ranked edge in free agency this year because he recorded a 13% pressure rate in every season since entering the league in 2018. Myles Garrett is the only other player to do that.
Well thanks for the pretty purple clouds Bob Ross, but I don't see them (reasonably) as upgrades and we can't discount the leadership lost in the turnover. Like I said, anything in the realm of 20th or above and Flores should be knighted as coach if the decade and it will be a quick one and done stop for him
You make it sound like improving from 31st to 20th is some unprecedented landmark achievement. That kind of improvement (and decline) is pretty standard in the NFL.
Bengals improved from 26th to 18th and went to the Super Bowl. Chiefs improved from 27th to 11th and went to the Super Bowl by increasing their pressure rate and becoming one of the most blitz happy teams in the NFL. Last year the Ravens improved from 25th to 9th. Sauce was a big factor, but the Jets improved their defense mostly by changing their defensive philosophy and went from 32nd to 4th. Point is, it happens quite a bit.
how much of those gains were also accompanied by large investments into their defenses? Some would argue that the only improvement we have made on that side of the ball was to the DC, and while that should be an improvement, we didnt really address any of the glaring needs from the last couple years. I can see a jump in rankings, but I dont see the improvement being enough to really change the outcome of the season or even many games. This team IMO is still going to struggle and unless that horseshoe is still wedged firmly up KOCs ass, the win loss record is likely going to regress from last year.
I don't think we should worry so much about the win/loss record. I want to see a better offense and a better defense and I think the odds of that happening are good.
Quote: @"HappyViking" said:
@"Kentis" said:
The Lion’s defense was actually worse then ours last season, hype doesn’t win divisions…!
I think that was because they started off fairly crappy. Lions went 8-2 in their last 10 games that included beating GB twice, Bears twice, and a convincing win over our Vikes in December. They have an impressive OL and some really nice young players on D. They've had so many years of top draft picks; I think it's going to really pay off this upcoming season.
The D was an issue last year but I see it improving this year and I think they are an 11 win team. The two late games we have with them will be big *if* the Vikings are actually a decent team. They will just be part of Detroit's march to the NFCN crown otherwise.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
I think we upgraded the coaching on D, but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball, I am very concerned about our run defense once again, it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover, but that should go with most any defense. I also question if we have made any gains on O, Addison and Nailer, should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed. ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play, but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year, it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement, in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years) all in all, I think we will have a better team, but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs, and once again be picking late teens early 20s.
That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking
You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.
I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade.
And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see.
OK, Eeyore, but you're only seeing the negative. A reasonable person sees the positive and negative and evaluates accordingly.
• No, technically, Fores has never been a DC, but he did call the plays in New England. He didn't get the title because that's how New England does things. What's more, he was such a hot commodity after helping Belichick pitch the lowest scoring Super Bowl in history, he went straight from assistant to head coach.
• I'll give you Tomlinson to Lowry. To me, that's the only real downgrade on our defense and one that has me a little worried.
• Kendricks to Asamoah I'm excited about. You have to admit...Kendricks was horrible last season. Hicks...meh...I'll give you that one too. But watch out for Ivan Pace Jr. That's not just hype. That little bastard can flat play.
• Murphy for PP is a significant upgrade in my eyes. P2 is 33. Murph is 25 and has been uniquely effective in shadow coverage against the likes of Davante Adams and Cooper Kupp. A blitz-heavy teams requires a corner like this.
• Half a sack for Davenport. Fans see sacks; blitzing DCs see pressures. MD was PFF's #1 ranked edge in free agency this year because he recorded a 13% pressure rate in every season since entering the league in 2018. Myles Garrett is the only other player to do that.
Well thanks for the pretty purple clouds Bob Ross, but I don't see them (reasonably) as upgrades and we can't discount the leadership lost in the turnover. Like I said, anything in the realm of 20th or above and Flores should be knighted as coach if the decade and it will be a quick one and done stop for him
You make it sound like improving from 31st to 20th is some unprecedented landmark achievement. That kind of improvement (and decline) is pretty standard in the NFL.
Bengals improved from 26th to 18th and went to the Super Bowl. Chiefs improved from 27th to 11th and went to the Super Bowl by increasing their pressure rate and becoming one of the most blitz happy teams in the NFL. Last year the Ravens improved from 25th to 9th. Sauce was a big factor, but the Jets improved their defense mostly by changing their defensive philosophy and went from 32nd to 4th. Point is, it happens quite a bit.
Those teams you mentioned invested in free agency and drafted to fix the problems on that side of the ball, so of course there are significant jumps in their defensive rankings. We didn't do any of that. We didn't sign a Trey Hendrickson in free agency, draft a Sauce Gardner or Geore Karlaftis. We went Dean Lowry. So while you paint a pretty picture, I don't see us improving significantly on defense.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
I think we upgraded the coaching on D, but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball, I am very concerned about our run defense once again, it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover, but that should go with most any defense. I also question if we have made any gains on O, Addison and Nailer, should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed. ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play, but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year, it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement, in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years) all in all, I think we will have a better team, but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs, and once again be picking late teens early 20s.
That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking
You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.
I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade.
And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see.
OK, Eeyore, but you're only seeing the negative. A reasonable person sees the positive and negative and evaluates accordingly.
• No, technically, Fores has never been a DC, but he did call the plays in New England. He didn't get the title because that's how New England does things. What's more, he was such a hot commodity after helping Belichick pitch the lowest scoring Super Bowl in history, he went straight from assistant to head coach.
• I'll give you Tomlinson to Lowry. To me, that's the only real downgrade on our defense and one that has me a little worried.
• Kendricks to Asamoah I'm excited about. You have to admit...Kendricks was horrible last season. Hicks...meh...I'll give you that one too. But watch out for Ivan Pace Jr. That's not just hype. That little bastard can flat play.
• Murphy for PP is a significant upgrade in my eyes. P2 is 33. Murph is 25 and has been uniquely effective in shadow coverage against the likes of Davante Adams and Cooper Kupp. A blitz-heavy teams requires a corner like this.
• Half a sack for Davenport. Fans see sacks; blitzing DCs see pressures. MD was PFF's #1 ranked edge in free agency this year because he recorded a 13% pressure rate in every season since entering the league in 2018. Myles Garrett is the only other player to do that.
Well thanks for the pretty purple clouds Bob Ross, but I don't see them (reasonably) as upgrades and we can't discount the leadership lost in the turnover. Like I said, anything in the realm of 20th or above and Flores should be knighted as coach if the decade and it will be a quick one and done stop for him
You make it sound like improving from 31st to 20th is some unprecedented landmark achievement. That kind of improvement (and decline) is pretty standard in the NFL.
Bengals improved from 26th to 18th and went to the Super Bowl. Chiefs improved from 27th to 11th and went to the Super Bowl by increasing their pressure rate and becoming one of the most blitz happy teams in the NFL. Last year the Ravens improved from 25th to 9th. Sauce was a big factor, but the Jets improved their defense mostly by changing their defensive philosophy and went from 32nd to 4th. Point is, it happens quite a bit.
how much of those gains were also accompanied by large investments into their defenses? Some would argue that the only improvement we have made on that side of the ball was to the DC, and while that should be an improvement, we didnt really address any of the glaring needs from the last couple years. I can see a jump in rankings, but I dont see the improvement being enough to really change the outcome of the season or even many games. This team IMO is still going to struggle and unless that horseshoe is still wedged firmly up KOCs ass, the win loss record is likely going to regress from last year.
Yes 100%
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