Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Carr's deal is four years at 37 million a year. So where does this put Kirk? 39, 40 million a year?
Probably $41M or so. Its a moot point unless the Vikings get enough term without full guarantees.
Carr's deal is a good symbolization of how Kirk holds the Vikings hostage in some ways. He effectively took a 2 year $70M deal with the Saints. Then they have 2 years of options (where they can get out). So on paper its 4 years $150M with a void year. In actuality its more likely 3 years $100M. But with the added term you can really massage the salary cap to the point he only counts $7.2M against the cap in 2023. Extreme due to their cap constraints, but the point is made.
If precedence has set anything if Kirk were to take a similar deal it would be either 2 years $75M or 3 years $112.5M. You can't backload the deal since there isn't term and you're fully locked in with limited mobility on how you move that money around. Its a big enough difference that realistically the lowest year 1 cap hit you could do is $18M on the 2 year deal and $12M on the 3 year deal. Both with 2 added void years.
Only paints the picture that less term and more guaranteed money = less cap flexibility. Not suggesting they don't extend Kirk, but this is a good example.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Carr's deal is four years at 37 million a year. So where does this put Kirk? 39, 40 million a year?
Probably $41M or so. Its a moot point unless the Vikings get enough term without full guarantees.
Carr's deal is a good symbolization of how Kirk holds the Vikings hostage in some ways. He effectively took a 2 year $70M deal with the Saints. Then they have 2 years of options (where they can get out). So on paper its 4 years $150M with a void year. In actuality its more likely 3 years $100M. But with the added term you can really massage the salary cap to the point he only counts $7.2M against the cap in 2023. Extreme due to their cap constraints, but the point is made.
If precedence has set anything if Kirk were to take a similar deal it would be either 2 years $75M or 3 years $112.5M. You can't backload the deal since there isn't term and you're fully locked in with limited mobility on how you move that money around. Its a big enough difference that realistically the lowest year 1 cap hit you could do is $18M on the 2 year deal and $12M on the 3 year deal. Both with 2 added void years.
Only paints the picture that less term and more guaranteed money = less cap flexibility. Not suggesting they don't extend Kirk, but this is a good example.
Maybe but Carr turns 32 later this month (March 28) while Cousins turns 35 on August 19. By the time Carr gets done with his 3rd year he'll be the same age as Cousins is now (approx).
Age should factor into the negotiations.
If I am Kwesi and I only have a 4 year deal myself, why would I want to tether my GM career to Cousins? That is a huge risk especially for a dude that checked it down with the season on the line.
Cousins had performed well up until that point but with all the marbles in the air, he would not take a shot.
If I am Kwesi I would be trying to trade him and if I couldn't then I let him play it out.
Then, I can go get a youngster and maybe prolong my GM career.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Carr's deal is four years at 37 million a year. So where does this put Kirk? 39, 40 million a year?
Probably $41M or so. Its a moot point unless the Vikings get enough term without full guarantees.
Carr's deal is a good symbolization of how Kirk holds the Vikings hostage in some ways. He effectively took a 2 year $70M deal with the Saints. Then they have 2 years of options (where they can get out). So on paper its 4 years $150M with a void year. In actuality its more likely 3 years $100M. But with the added term you can really massage the salary cap to the point he only counts $7.2M against the cap in 2023. Extreme due to their cap constraints, but the point is made.
If precedence has set anything if Kirk were to take a similar deal it would be either 2 years $75M or 3 years $112.5M. You can't backload the deal since there isn't term and you're fully locked in with limited mobility on how you move that money around. Its a big enough difference that realistically the lowest year 1 cap hit you could do is $18M on the 2 year deal and $12M on the 3 year deal. Both with 2 added void years.
Only paints the picture that less term and more guaranteed money = less cap flexibility. Not suggesting they don't extend Kirk, but this is a good example.
Doesn't Kirko's current contract include void years for 2024 & 2025? Can't the team lower his 2023 cap by converting his roster bonus & spreading those charges into 2024 or both 2024 & 2025?
Quote: @Knucklehead said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Carr's deal is four years at 37 million a year. So where does this put Kirk? 39, 40 million a year?
Probably $41M or so. Its a moot point unless the Vikings get enough term without full guarantees.
Carr's deal is a good symbolization of how Kirk holds the Vikings hostage in some ways. He effectively took a 2 year $70M deal with the Saints. Then they have 2 years of options (where they can get out). So on paper its 4 years $150M with a void year. In actuality its more likely 3 years $100M. But with the added term you can really massage the salary cap to the point he only counts $7.2M against the cap in 2023. Extreme due to their cap constraints, but the point is made.
If precedence has set anything if Kirk were to take a similar deal it would be either 2 years $75M or 3 years $112.5M. You can't backload the deal since there isn't term and you're fully locked in with limited mobility on how you move that money around. Its a big enough difference that realistically the lowest year 1 cap hit you could do is $18M on the 2 year deal and $12M on the 3 year deal. Both with 2 added void years.
Only paints the picture that less term and more guaranteed money = less cap flexibility. Not suggesting they don't extend Kirk, but this is a good example.
Doesn't Kirko's current contract include void years for 2024 & 2025? Can't the team lower his 2023 cap by converting his roster bonus & spreading those charges into 2024 or both 2024 & 2025?
Probably but then what happens if we don't win a SB in the next two years, and Kirk's play starts to potentially decline in 2024 and Joe Fan sees his cap number is $55M? Heads roll. KC definitely feels like the "safe" option versus a rookie, but in practice there's no such thing. It's a tough call for KO and KAM.
Odds are not good the Vikings find Cousins replacement anytime soon. If they are crazy lucky and manage a miracle in the draft, perhaps the math changes, but I don’t see that happening. In my opinion, Cousins is plenty good enough to win a championship, but you can’t trot out a bottom 5 defense with him (or anyone besides maybe Mahimes) and expect to be competitive enough in the playoffs.
My goal would be serious discussions after the draft. I’d look at a 3 year with 2 void years - whatever it took to get his cap number down. You get that down to that $16 million range this year and it frees up $20 million that can go to defense and also get you clear of some of the dead money on these poor contracts Spielman did the past couple of years. With that kind of money, you can make a couple of impactful additions.
I think the last thing Kwesi should be thinking about is his tenure/hitching his wagon. His sole focus should be putting together the best roster to win, regardless if there is risk in guaranteed money. With the level of injuries in the league, there’s always substantial risk in nearly every contract. Cousins at least has a stellar history on that front.
By setting the position, it allows you a number of positives:
1. Everyone knows who the guys is. He’s well liked and respected already. This is good for everyone from roster decisions for Kwesi to Free Agency.
2. It allows time to find his long term replacement. There’s no rush to draft a prospect now and it reduces the stress with getting that right. It avoids getting forced into taking a guy just to get one.
3. As I said, it puts the focus where it should be - turning around deficiencies like the defense. Defense is almost exclusively why we are not championship caliber. Our #6 offense is exactly what you like to have in place, while a bottom 5 defense has to change.
I wouldn’t think twice about getting this done, unless by miracle someone falls to us.
To improve the defense, my number 1 target would be Lavonte David in free agency. As an older player he won’t be as expensive as others and he is still playing elite football. The number one improvement he can bring is in coverage. He’s still near the top of the league. He’s be paired with Asamoah - who has also shown good coverage ability and potential.
My other free agent target would be defensive line. I’d like to see them keep Tomlinson (if they can’t, I do like Tonga as the future at the position) and to add a large athletic defensive end. Restructuring and moving on from some large contracts can put us in good position to get better. I hope Kwesi is up to the task.
I just don't see where a Cousins replacement would come from in this Draft considering where they pick in round 1 and missing that 2nd rounder. Hendon Hooker maybe? But do we think he'll last to the end of round 3?? I don't. Mond went toward beginning of round 3 and he isn't anywhere near the prospect Hendon is. What might drop Hooker is his age, but he's athletic enough to play for 10 years in the NFL. Good years.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
I just don't see where a Cousins replacement would come from in this Draft considering where they pick in round 1 and missing that 2nd rounder. Hendon Hooker maybe? But do we think he'll last to the end of round 3?? I don't. Mond went toward beginning of round 3 and he isn't anywhere near the prospect Hendon is. What might drop Hooker is his age, but he's athletic enough to play for 10 years in the NFL. Good years.
If they want Hooker, they can trade down from the first or trade up from the third. I'm not thrilled with either option as I think there will be some quality edge rushers available at #23 & their lack of picks in this draft & the number of holes that they need to fill in the roster makes me reluctant to trade up using 2023 picks.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3579...five-years
Interesting take, but I don't disagree. Cousins has brought stability to the position, but his leverage over us in contract negotiations is our own fault. I knew he was up there, but I didn't realize he's consumed more cap space over that 5 year period then any other player outside of Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. For a guy who is a borderline top 10 QB...that's insane and the Vikings have nobody to blame but themselves
All the team really has to do, to quickly become cap compliant, is restructure O’Neil & extend Hockenson. Any & all other moves, whether cuts, restructures, or trades are all available to improve our roster. This should be an interesting time, get your popcorn ready…! B)
Go back and watch the Vikings/Bills game again. Yes, we won but just watch Cousins play and then come back and tell me he's worth another contract. Cousins has had more chances than most QB's ever get and if I were the GM I would let him play his contract out. I would tell him, "Play 2023 and if we get to the Superbowl then you can write your own check."
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