Kyler Throws a Tantrum

[Guest]

Fans evaluating QB play are like the blind men and the elephant.  You can look at MB's stats and think Cousin is underpaid.  You can look at his won-loss record while with the Vikings and his won-loss record against playoff teams and think he is overpaid.  You can factor in the fact he has a top three WR duo. etc. etc.

[For the time being], I am going to put my faith in KOC's and KOM's decision as to how to move forward with Cousins.  KOC has a history with KC so he can evaluate intangibles and I am sure KOM has a much more granular approach to all the stats, etc. we as fans throw out on an obscure Vikings board. 

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@Zanary said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@VikingOracle said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@Zanary said:

@VikingOracle said:
Keep this in mind -- Kyler Murray grew up a Vikings fan.  Would you make a Cousins - Murray trade?

Nope...but it has practically nothing to do with Cousins.

We hung with Arizona until the latest in our heartbreaking missed kick series killed our efforts, so I don't pine for their offense vs ours...but instead, what I've noticed is that Murray looked worse in important games, looked bad as things got closer to playoff time.  He's still a very good QB who likely has amazing potential...but I don't see mental toughness as much as I see a kid who's willing to take risks and his supporting cast has helped reward many of them.

That works in streaks, but...well, how many rings did Favre end up with in a two decade career?

if you are trying to convince me its a bad idea... you failed.   
I dont care if he is a mental pussy,  if he got us 1 ring in his career...well thats better than any other QB has done for the franchise in over 60 years.  we cant get our 2nd until we get our first.

And in Cousins I see too many 3rd down check downs short of the sticks.

Name a QB who doesn't do this. This is my biggest pet peeve about football fans. So many complain about an 8 yard pass on 3rd and 12, when the truth is that, on 3rd down, the defense is stacked at the sticks. Sometimes your best hope of converting is throwing short of the sticks and hoping your guy can break through. It's not that QBs and OCs don't know where the marker is. 

THANK YOU.

I kinda wonder, sometimes, if the posters snarling about our checkdown plays watch any other games.  EVERY QB has some, defenses know where the sticks are, and essentially every QB knows that some yards with a chance for YAC is better than nothing when he's about to get pummeled in the pocket.

Late in the season, when the Saints blanked the Bucs, ol' TB12 was harassed and forced into a ton of painfully familiar situations by the NO defense, leading to checkdowns and throw-aways all game long.  I remember watching, and actually wondering if the same people that never forgive Cousins or any Vikings QB for those plays were watching that game...because they're also the people who'll insist 'YOU CAN'T COMPARE...".

It takes a team, it takes coaching, it takes systems, and only one team gets it all the way right per year.  The babble about "just get this QB" or similar when there are a lot of glaring issues gets just...painful.

the point of "just get this QB" or just get rid of KC,  isnt about his performance in relation to the team wins,  its his value,  he costs a shit ton of cap space which makes it much more difficult to address those other glaring areas of need.  8 to 10 million a year in cap concessions from him goes a long way to improving those other areas over what we are spending to man them currently.  KC plays a pretty good game,  not great,  but pretty damn good most the time,  but when you are in the tops of your position money wise, and are not consistently making that big of a difference in games,  something needs to change.  IMO the ball is in Kirks court. 

How KAM handles this next deal for cousins IMO will be a defining moment in his career with the Vikings.  Get Cousins to take a contract that is more in line with what Brady and others have done at the end of their careers to make a real run,  huge win right there and it should really make the next year or two much easier on him getting the team rebuilt in the way he envisions.

See...here's the thing: I've yet to see anyone actually cheering for Kirk's cap hit this season, and I remind those involved that it is that number because of money that got moved to help the team in 2020.

Even back then, this number was assumed to be negotiated before the 2022 season got underway.

So, I find it ridiculous that the narrative has KC vilified for an amount that he almost certainly is getting spread out/renegotiated, and it's the absolute anchor point for so many of his crayon-munching hate club...who, strangely, are undeterred when you mention the higher dollar amounts that would be involved in purloining QBs from Houston/Seattle/Arizona.

They're an odd, sad little bunch.

Yes, I hope Kirk takes a deal that gives the team cap relief and that frankly gives him some PR relief at the same time.  If he were to look back at the pile he's already got, decided that he could offer a "discount" or whatever going forward to maybe HIRE DECENT OGs, I think the drooling dolts would have much less to snarl about.

[Guest]

WTF is with all the name calling…? Condescend much…?   

[Guest]

@JustinTime18™ said:

I can tell the helmet has been edited.

[Guest]

@Zanary said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@Zanary said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@VikingOracle said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@Zanary said:

@VikingOracle said:
Keep this in mind -- Kyler Murray grew up a Vikings fan.  Would you make a Cousins - Murray trade?

Nope...but it has practically nothing to do with Cousins.

We hung with Arizona until the latest in our heartbreaking missed kick series killed our efforts, so I don't pine for their offense vs ours...but instead, what I've noticed is that Murray looked worse in important games, looked bad as things got closer to playoff time.  He's still a very good QB who likely has amazing potential...but I don't see mental toughness as much as I see a kid who's willing to take risks and his supporting cast has helped reward many of them.

That works in streaks, but...well, how many rings did Favre end up with in a two decade career?

if you are trying to convince me its a bad idea... you failed.   
I dont care if he is a mental pussy,  if he got us 1 ring in his career...well thats better than any other QB has done for the franchise in over 60 years.  we cant get our 2nd until we get our first.

And in Cousins I see too many 3rd down check downs short of the sticks.

Name a QB who doesn't do this. This is my biggest pet peeve about football fans. So many complain about an 8 yard pass on 3rd and 12, when the truth is that, on 3rd down, the defense is stacked at the sticks. Sometimes your best hope of converting is throwing short of the sticks and hoping your guy can break through. It's not that QBs and OCs don't know where the marker is. 

THANK YOU.

I kinda wonder, sometimes, if the posters snarling about our checkdown plays watch any other games.  EVERY QB has some, defenses know where the sticks are, and essentially every QB knows that some yards with a chance for YAC is better than nothing when he's about to get pummeled in the pocket.

Late in the season, when the Saints blanked the Bucs, ol' TB12 was harassed and forced into a ton of painfully familiar situations by the NO defense, leading to checkdowns and throw-aways all game long.  I remember watching, and actually wondering if the same people that never forgive Cousins or any Vikings QB for those plays were watching that game...because they're also the people who'll insist 'YOU CAN'T COMPARE...".

It takes a team, it takes coaching, it takes systems, and only one team gets it all the way right per year.  The babble about "just get this QB" or similar when there are a lot of glaring issues gets just...painful.

the point of "just get this QB" or just get rid of KC,  isnt about his performance in relation to the team wins,  its his value,  he costs a shit ton of cap space which makes it much more difficult to address those other glaring areas of need.  8 to 10 million a year in cap concessions from him goes a long way to improving those other areas over what we are spending to man them currently.  KC plays a pretty good game,  not great,  but pretty damn good most the time,  but when you are in the tops of your position money wise, and are not consistently making that big of a difference in games,  something needs to change.  IMO the ball is in Kirks court. 

How KAM handles this next deal for cousins IMO will be a defining moment in his career with the Vikings.  Get Cousins to take a contract that is more in line with what Brady and others have done at the end of their careers to make a real run,  huge win right there and it should really make the next year or two much easier on him getting the team rebuilt in the way he envisions.

See...here's the thing: I've yet to see anyone actually cheering for Kirk's cap hit this season, and I remind those involved that it is that number because of money that got moved to help the team in 2020.

Even back then, this number was assumed to be negotiated before the 2022 season got underway.

So, I find it ridiculous that the narrative has KC vilified for an amount that he almost certainly is getting spread out/renegotiated, and it's the absolute anchor point for so many of his crayon-munching hate club...who, strangely, are undeterred when you mention the higher dollar amounts that would be involved in purloining QBs from Houston/Seattle/Arizona.

They're an odd, sad little bunch.

Yes, I hope Kirk takes a deal that gives the team cap relief and that frankly gives him some PR relief at the same time.  If he were to look back at the pile he's already got, decided that he could offer a "discount" or whatever going forward to maybe HIRE DECENT OGs, I think the drooling dolts would have much less to snarl about.

You know if you can't make your point without belittling those that disagree with you then just dont make the point.  You've been around enough to know that shit isn't going to fly.

[Guest]

Chris Mortensen@mortreport·37mThe odd vibe between the @AZCardinals and Kyler Murray is indeed alarming:Murray is described as self-centered, immature and finger pointer, per sources.Murray is  frustrated with franchise and was embarrassed by playoff loss to Rams and thinks he’s been framed as the scapegoat

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@Zanary said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@Zanary said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@VikingOracle said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@Zanary said:

@VikingOracle said:
Keep this in mind -- Kyler Murray grew up a Vikings fan.  Would you make a Cousins - Murray trade?

Nope...but it has practically nothing to do with Cousins.

We hung with Arizona until the latest in our heartbreaking missed kick series killed our efforts, so I don't pine for their offense vs ours...but instead, what I've noticed is that Murray looked worse in important games, looked bad as things got closer to playoff time.  He's still a very good QB who likely has amazing potential...but I don't see mental toughness as much as I see a kid who's willing to take risks and his supporting cast has helped reward many of them.

That works in streaks, but...well, how many rings did Favre end up with in a two decade career?

if you are trying to convince me its a bad idea... you failed.   
I dont care if he is a mental pussy,  if he got us 1 ring in his career...well thats better than any other QB has done for the franchise in over 60 years.  we cant get our 2nd until we get our first.

And in Cousins I see too many 3rd down check downs short of the sticks.

Name a QB who doesn't do this. This is my biggest pet peeve about football fans. So many complain about an 8 yard pass on 3rd and 12, when the truth is that, on 3rd down, the defense is stacked at the sticks. Sometimes your best hope of converting is throwing short of the sticks and hoping your guy can break through. It's not that QBs and OCs don't know where the marker is. 

THANK YOU.

I kinda wonder, sometimes, if the posters snarling about our checkdown plays watch any other games.  EVERY QB has some, defenses know where the sticks are, and essentially every QB knows that some yards with a chance for YAC is better than nothing when he's about to get pummeled in the pocket.

Late in the season, when the Saints blanked the Bucs, ol' TB12 was harassed and forced into a ton of painfully familiar situations by the NO defense, leading to checkdowns and throw-aways all game long.  I remember watching, and actually wondering if the same people that never forgive Cousins or any Vikings QB for those plays were watching that game...because they're also the people who'll insist 'YOU CAN'T COMPARE...".

It takes a team, it takes coaching, it takes systems, and only one team gets it all the way right per year.  The babble about "just get this QB" or similar when there are a lot of glaring issues gets just...painful.

the point of "just get this QB" or just get rid of KC,  isnt about his performance in relation to the team wins,  its his value,  he costs a shit ton of cap space which makes it much more difficult to address those other glaring areas of need.  8 to 10 million a year in cap concessions from him goes a long way to improving those other areas over what we are spending to man them currently.  KC plays a pretty good game,  not great,  but pretty damn good most the time,  but when you are in the tops of your position money wise, and are not consistently making that big of a difference in games,  something needs to change.  IMO the ball is in Kirks court. 

How KAM handles this next deal for cousins IMO will be a defining moment in his career with the Vikings.  Get Cousins to take a contract that is more in line with what Brady and others have done at the end of their careers to make a real run,  huge win right there and it should really make the next year or two much easier on him getting the team rebuilt in the way he envisions.

See...here's the thing: I've yet to see anyone actually cheering for Kirk's cap hit this season, and I remind those involved that it is that number because of money that got moved to help the team in 2020.

Even back then, this number was assumed to be negotiated before the 2022 season got underway.

So, I find it ridiculous that the narrative has KC vilified for an amount that he almost certainly is getting spread out/renegotiated, and it's the absolute anchor point for so many of his crayon-munching hate club...who, strangely, are undeterred when you mention the higher dollar amounts that would be involved in purloining QBs from Houston/Seattle/Arizona.

They're an odd, sad little bunch.

Yes, I hope Kirk takes a deal that gives the team cap relief and that frankly gives him some PR relief at the same time.  If he were to look back at the pile he's already got, decided that he could offer a "discount" or whatever going forward to maybe HIRE DECENT OGs, I think the drooling dolts would have much less to snarl about.

You know if you can't make your point without belittling those that disagree with you then just dont make the point.  You've been around enough to know that shit isn't going to fly.

First...get over yourself, you're got zero authority to whine about my post.  I didn't name anyone specifically, and I still think that any "fan" who puts energy into real hatred for a member of "their team" is a drooling imbecile to begin with...and I don't begin to give a rat's ass who that offends.

If you don't care for Kirk, have concerns with his pay or his play, that's one thing...but, if you're among the idiots that have to go onto various pages, Twitter, and the like snarling about him and ignoring the line, the defense, the years of bad kicking, the coaching, etc, that all contributed  to our losses...well, you actually display determined, willful ignorance.  That does paint a comical mental picture of the adults who began as the kids who ate their crayons in kindergarten.

It's slightly dark humor, and it's not illegal.  On the other hand, if the typed words of a stranger on a sports site are damaging to your soul, I can check in Seattle for any number of safe spaces or crisis counselors that may be on call for you.

[Guest]

@Kentis said:
WTF is with all the name calling…? Condescend much…?   

Good grief.

OK, READING COMPREHESION UPDATE:

If you aren't a huge fan of our QB, if you have concerns about his contract, etc etc etc...but you are also a functional person aware of the many issues with the team, you are unlikely to be hating on Kirk...you will have been talking about all or most of the issues.

When I talk about the "haters", and I do mock them, I'm talking about the ones that ignore the line issues, ignore every other QB's checkdowns, ignore the terrible offensive coaching...just to hate on our QB.  They are rife across social media, and I think it's genuinely good and even important to mock and malign them.

If you're not hating, you're not a hater, and it's not about you...so...?

[Guest]

My reading comprehension is just fine thank you, what’s w/ all the vitriol? May I suggest a new avatar… 

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@Zanary said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@Zanary said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@VikingOracle said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@Zanary said:

@VikingOracle said:
Keep this in mind -- Kyler Murray grew up a Vikings fan.  Would you make a Cousins - Murray trade?

Nope...but it has practically nothing to do with Cousins.

We hung with Arizona until the latest in our heartbreaking missed kick series killed our efforts, so I don't pine for their offense vs ours...but instead, what I've noticed is that Murray looked worse in important games, looked bad as things got closer to playoff time.  He's still a very good QB who likely has amazing potential...but I don't see mental toughness as much as I see a kid who's willing to take risks and his supporting cast has helped reward many of them.

That works in streaks, but...well, how many rings did Favre end up with in a two decade career?

if you are trying to convince me its a bad idea... you failed.   
I dont care if he is a mental pussy,  if he got us 1 ring in his career...well thats better than any other QB has done for the franchise in over 60 years.  we cant get our 2nd until we get our first.

And in Cousins I see too many 3rd down check downs short of the sticks.

Name a QB who doesn't do this. This is my biggest pet peeve about football fans. So many complain about an 8 yard pass on 3rd and 12, when the truth is that, on 3rd down, the defense is stacked at the sticks. Sometimes your best hope of converting is throwing short of the sticks and hoping your guy can break through. It's not that QBs and OCs don't know where the marker is. 

THANK YOU.

I kinda wonder, sometimes, if the posters snarling about our checkdown plays watch any other games.  EVERY QB has some, defenses know where the sticks are, and essentially every QB knows that some yards with a chance for YAC is better than nothing when he's about to get pummeled in the pocket.

Late in the season, when the Saints blanked the Bucs, ol' TB12 was harassed and forced into a ton of painfully familiar situations by the NO defense, leading to checkdowns and throw-aways all game long.  I remember watching, and actually wondering if the same people that never forgive Cousins or any Vikings QB for those plays were watching that game...because they're also the people who'll insist 'YOU CAN'T COMPARE...".

It takes a team, it takes coaching, it takes systems, and only one team gets it all the way right per year.  The babble about "just get this QB" or similar when there are a lot of glaring issues gets just...painful.

the point of "just get this QB" or just get rid of KC,  isnt about his performance in relation to the team wins,  its his value,  he costs a shit ton of cap space which makes it much more difficult to address those other glaring areas of need.  8 to 10 million a year in cap concessions from him goes a long way to improving those other areas over what we are spending to man them currently.  KC plays a pretty good game,  not great,  but pretty damn good most the time,  but when you are in the tops of your position money wise, and are not consistently making that big of a difference in games,  something needs to change.  IMO the ball is in Kirks court. 

How KAM handles this next deal for cousins IMO will be a defining moment in his career with the Vikings.  Get Cousins to take a contract that is more in line with what Brady and others have done at the end of their careers to make a real run,  huge win right there and it should really make the next year or two much easier on him getting the team rebuilt in the way he envisions.

See...here's the thing: I've yet to see anyone actually cheering for Kirk's cap hit this season, and I remind those involved that it is that number because of money that got moved to help the team in 2020.

Even back then, this number was assumed to be negotiated before the 2022 season got underway.

So, I find it ridiculous that the narrative has KC vilified for an amount that he almost certainly is getting spread out/renegotiated, and it's the absolute anchor point for so many of his crayon-munching hate club...who, strangely, are undeterred when you mention the higher dollar amounts that would be involved in purloining QBs from Houston/Seattle/Arizona.

They're an odd, sad little bunch.

Yes, I hope Kirk takes a deal that gives the team cap relief and that frankly gives him some PR relief at the same time.  If he were to look back at the pile he's already got, decided that he could offer a "discount" or whatever going forward to maybe HIRE DECENT OGs, I think the drooling dolts would have much less to snarl about.

You know if you can't make your point without belittling those that disagree with you then just dont make the point.  You've been around enough to know that shit isn't going to fly.

Well, yeah......but its not nearly as fun.