Quote: @Knucklehead said:
Have we given up on Mond already? If so, why?
Yeah, I wonder this myself. Maybe Rick is just doing regular due diligence. Or they've seen enough of Mond to realize privately its never going to happen. Could be either.
Guys, Spielman does this every year. Don't read too much into it. That said, we'd be fools for assuming our 3rd round QB is the future.
Quote: @Vikergirl said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ Vikergirl said:
Sure he can look but he picked Ponder so his track record is not good. This is a concern. He needs people that are better equipped to make the choice that is if he is still here next year.
So he’s terrible at scouting QBs because he picked Ponder? Whats the hit rate on QBs? It cant be north of 25% on first rounders can it?
Are you confident that he can pick a qb? Also consider the rest of his drafts. He has had some hits but he has had his share of misses.
It's not about "picking" a qb. In most years the general consensus best QB ends up not being the best QB. What Spielman should be chastised for is not drafting enough QBs. You need to keep drafting until you have an elite QB. Most QBs won't be elite, but you need to get one, because the rewards are so massive.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ Vikergirl said:
Sure he can look but he picked Ponder so his track record is not good. This is a concern. He needs people that are better equipped to make the choice that is if he is still here next year.
So he’s terrible at scouting QBs because he picked Ponder? Whats the hit rate on QBs? It cant be north of 25% on first rounders can it?
Are you confident that he can pick a qb? Also consider the rest of his drafts. He has had some hits but he has had his share of misses.
It's not about "picking" a qb. In most years the general consensus best QB ends up not being the best QB. What Spielman should be chastised for is not drafting enough QBs. You need to keep drafting until you have an elite QB. Most QBs won't be elite, but you need to get one, because the rewards are so massive.
drafting them is only half the battle, you have to be able to groom them into a starter, and then trust that they will get over that learning curve that most all new starters experience and become that next great one that every team hopes for. sometimes you have to take those bitter losses to get to the sweet wins. I dont see Zim ever to be the type of coach that would develop a young QB, Teddy was better than anything else he had, thats why he got in there, but its always going to be the safe bet with Zim IMO.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ Vikergirl said:
Sure he can look but he picked Ponder so his track record is not good. This is a concern. He needs people that are better equipped to make the choice that is if he is still here next year.
So he’s terrible at scouting QBs because he picked Ponder? Whats the hit rate on QBs? It cant be north of 25% on first rounders can it?
Are you confident that he can pick a qb? Also consider the rest of his drafts. He has had some hits but he has had his share of misses.
It's not about "picking" a qb. In most years the general consensus best QB ends up not being the best QB. What Spielman should be chastised for is not drafting enough QBs. You need to keep drafting until you have an elite QB. Most QBs won't be elite, but you need to get one, because the rewards are so massive Like I said before, during, and after the draft....a QB doesn't just appear in a draft at the time you need to draft one. We apparently, didn't need a QB this past draft (locked in $$$ on Cousins) so we passed on moving up a few spots for Fields (which I advocated) and we passed on Jones altogether. I considered Cousins a sunk cost that should not have influenced us taking a QB - if we though one of them was a franchise player - obviously we didn't think either Fields or Jones were franchise QB's.
Now this next upcoming draft doesn't look very deep at QB but we might need one? So what happens the majority of the time a QB needy team will over value one of the QB's in a shallow pool out of need - ala Ponder. We all know the odds of hitting but we all also know the odds of hitting when you don't swing, right?
NFL Draft record for QBs taken in Round 1 Six. In 1983, a record six quarterbacks were taken in the first round. That group included three quarterbacks that ended up in the Pro Football Hall of Fame in John Elway (No. 1), Jim Kelly (No. 14) and Dan Marino (No. 27).
Other first-round quarterbacks that year included Todd Blackledge (No. 7), Tony Eason (No. 15) and Ken O’Brien (No. 24).
If there was ever a "Year of the Quarterback," this was it.
How many times did five QBs go in first round? Three. The 1999 NFL Draft featured five first-round quarterbacks. That group included Tim Couch (No. 1), Donovan McNabb (No. 2), Akili Smith (No. 3), Daunte Culpepper (No. 11) and Cade McNown (No. 12). McNabb was the only quarterback among those five who started in a Super Bowl.
The 2018 NFL Draft also featured five first-round quarterbacks. That group included Baker Mayfield (No. 1), Sam Darnold (No. 3), Josh Allen (No. 7), Josh Rosen (No. 10) and Lamar Jackson (No. 32). Allen led the Bills to the AFC championship game last season, and Mayfield and Jackson reached the AFC divisional round.
The 2021 NFL Draft - Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, Fields, Jones
What does this say about QB Kellen Mond?
Rick has some weird thing about drafting players just because he knows another team right behind him is interested.
Quote: @Knucklehead said:
Have we given up on Mond already? If so, why? This is a redshirt year for him & rightfully so. RS may just be doing his due diligence on this year's draft eligible QBs. It would be nice if the local media asked about the status of Mond's development during one of the pressers.
There's people on here all the time that say we should draft a QB high until it pans out. Scouting QB's and the rest of the entire teams that are playing each othere isn't a bad thing for people in charge of scouting to be doing.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ Knucklehead said:
Have we given up on Mond already? If so, why? This is a redshirt year for him & rightfully so. RS may just be doing his due diligence on this year's draft eligible QBs. It would be nice if the local media asked about the status of Mond's development during one of the pressers.
There's people on here all the time that say we should draft a QB high until it pans out. Scouting QB's and the rest of the entire teams that are playing each othere isn't a bad thing for people in charge of scouting to be doing.
Rick is doing what every GM does or should do. Most important position in football requires all hands on deck every year whether you "need" a QB or not. You rank every player and you can judge your accuracy of those rankings even if you didn't have a pick the whole draft to gauge your evaluation process into the future. I do not ever propose just "taking a QB high until it pans out" and I haven't seen any other poster indicate that either. I do propose that you work the QB evaluation process with everything you got every draft and evaluate your accuracy. For example, we can obviously all assume that we/Spelly did not evaluate Mac Jones at a Top 14 player even when you add +++ for the QB position. We can assume that Spelly did not evaluate Fields as a player to move up for a few slots and give up good draft collateral.
But they know internally where they had every player slotted in every draft since Spelly was named GM. Maybe they had Trevor Lawrence as the 4th best QB, maybe they had Mahomes as a 5th rounder etc... we will never know, but they do!
It is easy for me to sit here and be bold in my thinking process but every draft also entails situation analysis for the team and the GM. Spelly sunk all that cost into Cousins and I think his situational analysis said it was more worth it to surround Cousins with more pieces and not risk that 14th pick on a QB unless one fell into our laps at 14 - That they had already evaluated as a top 14 pick. I'm not convinced that Spelly would have taken Fields at 14 if he were available. I think the little dabble in moving up was for Slater not a QB. It wasn't even a viable offer anyway.
Three things I think we can all agree on from our first pick:
We did not value Mac Jones or Darrisaw as a top 14 pick and we did not value Fields worthy of getting to 10/11 pick and giving up capital.
My situational analysis before the draft was pretty convinced that Spelly was going to lean to adding that support for his previous decision with Cousins and I was really pushing hard on here for him not to depending on the situation when it presented itself. I was hoping he would look at his Cousins decision (signing and the $$$) as a sunk cost that should not have a bearing on thinking the QB position is not worth the 14 pick or a move up. I thought/think draft was different for us - this team at this time. The combination of 1st round QB potential was one the highest in history and we had a relatively high pick for our historical standards with enough to get us into the 9/10/11 range....not top 5. So again this draft provided us a bigger pool of QB's and a high pick then usual - the situation.
I am not going to be revisionists in what I would have done and advocated for before, during, and after the draft:
I would have moved up for Fields into that 9/10/11 range but maybe we did try ( I don't think so) and the other team was asking for too much.
I would also have passed on Jones and the guard AVT from usc that the jets took which we did do of course. ( a decent amount of Longshippers wanted AVT)
I would 80% prob taken Darrisaw at 14 unless a trade down was too good which appeared to have happened. But I'm not sure I would have taken the risk that Spelly did because I really wanted Darrisaw.
Self evaluation without hindsight:
Fields looks like I expected at this point - the potential is there - and he is on the right track but not a lock franchise QB or anything. If I did move up for him (gave up picks) he would be on the bench so far this season (as would Mac Jones or any QB) and we would not have Darrisaw and a couple other high picks.
Mac Jones has been the best of the rookie QB's but under any of my scenarios he was never going to be in purple.
It was a good consolation prize for me (when we didn't make the Fields move) that Spelly was able to parlay and still get Darrisaw and multiple other top 3 round picks and then the picks we would have had to given up.
So I was and still am pretty happy with Spelly. I do think he is a Top 10 drafting GM easily.
|
