Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
There's an excellent article on Barr that I'll have to find and repost. There's a lot he does in Zimmer's scheme that doesn't necessarily show up in the box score. Basically, OCs need to account for him, he frees up others, and he along with Smith are chess pieces.
I read that somewhere as well and I'm sure there is great value and truth to it.
But I guess at what cost vs other alternatives to improving the team?
I love me lb's who make splash plays so what Barr brings to the table hasn't been as easy for me to appreciate as Zimmer. And that of course brings up the discussion on how he's used here in a 4/3 scheme too.
Sure wish they listened to @MB and drafted Donald instead...
I think LB needs to be high on their list this draft, not 1st rd high (that would be stoned) but I dont think Barr is here long-term.
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
There's an excellent article on Barr that I'll have to find and repost. There's a lot he does in Zimmer's scheme that doesn't necessarily show up in the box score. Basically, OCs need to account for him, he frees up others, and he along with Smith are chess pieces.
I've heard that from others, I just dont see where he is anything special. why account for a player that rarely makes plays? at some point that notion needs to be challenged and he would get chances to make splash plays, that would show up in a box score. hes' not a good pass rusher, hes nothing special in pass protection, and he is easily blocked on runs up the middle, he is damn good on playing the run off tackle, and breaking up screens and such to the flat, but again, I would expect a chess piece to show why hes a chess piece and not just a high priced pawn.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
Where is the money for a UFA OG? Spotrac shows cap space without Peterson as something under $8M; he's going to take at least a big chunk of that. Some more seems to be coming from switching Rudolph to post-June 1, but that's probably for draft picks. I think we just used the OL money on Peterson. Daddy Zimmer took the grocery money to get his CB fix.
You wanted to tank to see more Samia. Now you want big bucks for a G?
Ok.
Have you noticed the contracts for second tier guys? Also, there's the draft, June 1 cuts, cut down to 53 cuts. You realize there's plenty more shopping to do, right?
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
Where is the money for a UFA OG? Spotrac shows cap space without Peterson as something under $8M; he's going to take at least a big chunk of that. Some more seems to be coming from switching Rudolph to post-June 1, but that's probably for draft picks. I think we just used the OL money on Peterson. Daddy Zimmer took the grocery money to get his CB fix.
You wanted to tank to see more Samia. Now you want big bucks for a G?
Ok.
Have you noticed the contracts for second tier guys? Also, there's the draft, June 1 cuts, cut down to 53 cuts. You realize there's plenty more shopping to do, right?
Jimmy's talking about "offseason so far" vs. last offseason. They could go get an OG but I'll believe it when I see it. People were saying, "don't worry we'll still sign some OL in the 2nd tier of FA or after cuts" all last year, too.
Oh gosh, I forgot, it's impossible to suggest giving Samia a few games instead of Dozier last year AND to think the team needs to work to fill that spot now. So obvious they are mutually exclusive, even if they did not try Samia and apparently now have no one on the roster for LG.
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
Where is the money for a UFA OG? Spotrac shows cap space without Peterson as something under $8M; he's going to take at least a big chunk of that. Some more seems to be coming from switching Rudolph to post-June 1, but that's probably for draft picks. I think we just used the OL money on Peterson. Daddy Zimmer took the grocery money to get his CB fix.
You wanted to tank to see more Samia. Now you want big bucks for a G?
Ok.
Have you noticed the contracts for second tier guys? Also, there's the draft, June 1 cuts, cut down to 53 cuts. You realize there's plenty more shopping to do, right?
I dont know that Samia was necessarily the point of wanting to see pieces moved around towards the end of this last season, I think it was more to find out how Cleveland or ONeill fit on the left, or if Udoh was a legit candidate to play RT if ONeill was moved to the left side. Samia had shown pretty well 2 years ago, what happened this last year is a head scratcher as he was absolute garbage, but did a step back help him? probably not, but what was gained by playing our existing guys in positions they likely wont be asked to play in 21 with no real shot at anything?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
Where is the money for a UFA OG? Spotrac shows cap space without Peterson as something under $8M; he's going to take at least a big chunk of that. Some more seems to be coming from switching Rudolph to post-June 1, but that's probably for draft picks. I think we just used the OL money on Peterson. Daddy Zimmer took the grocery money to get his CB fix.
You wanted to tank to see more Samia. Now you want big bucks for a G?
Ok.
Have you noticed the contracts for second tier guys? Also, there's the draft, June 1 cuts, cut down to 53 cuts. You realize there's plenty more shopping to do, right?
I dont know that Samia was necessarily the point of wanting to see pieces moved around towards the end of this last season, I think it was more to find out how Cleveland or ONeill fit on the left, or if Udoh was a legit candidate to play RT if ONeill was moved to the left side. Samia had shown pretty well 2 years ago, what happened this last year is a head scratcher as he was absolute garbage, but did a step back help him? probably not, but what was gained by playing our existing guys in positions they likely wont be asked to play in 21 with no real shot at anything?
Again, they were still in the playoff chase. You don't start experimenting when you are still in the hunt. Especially when you want further looks at a guy who was absolute horse shit. That's just comical.
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
Where is the money for a UFA OG? Spotrac shows cap space without Peterson as something under $8M; he's going to take at least a big chunk of that. Some more seems to be coming from switching Rudolph to post-June 1, but that's probably for draft picks. I think we just used the OL money on Peterson. Daddy Zimmer took the grocery money to get his CB fix.
You wanted to tank to see more Samia. Now you want big bucks for a G?
Ok.
Have you noticed the contracts for second tier guys? Also, there's the draft, June 1 cuts, cut down to 53 cuts. You realize there's plenty more shopping to do, right?
I dont know that Samia was necessarily the point of wanting to see pieces moved around towards the end of this last season, I think it was more to find out how Cleveland or ONeill fit on the left, or if Udoh was a legit candidate to play RT if ONeill was moved to the left side. Samia had shown pretty well 2 years ago, what happened this last year is a head scratcher as he was absolute garbage, but did a step back help him? probably not, but what was gained by playing our existing guys in positions they likely wont be asked to play in 21 with no real shot at anything?
Again, they were still in the playoff chase. You don't start experimenting when you are still in the hunt. Especially when you want further looks at a guy who was absolute horse shit. That's just comical.
ive seen dogs chasing their tale with more promise than our team had doing anything in the playoffs last year. and like I said, Samia was hardly the point, it was the lost opportunity of finding Reiffs replacement knowing that there was a good chance he wasnt going to be here this year. with no preseason last year, and who knows for the offseason this year, i still say it was a lost opportunity.
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
Where is the money for a UFA OG? Spotrac shows cap space without Peterson as something under $8M; he's going to take at least a big chunk of that. Some more seems to be coming from switching Rudolph to post-June 1, but that's probably for draft picks. I think we just used the OL money on Peterson. Daddy Zimmer took the grocery money to get his CB fix.
You wanted to tank to see more Samia. Now you want big bucks for a G?
Ok.
Have you noticed the contracts for second tier guys? Also, there's the draft, June 1 cuts, cut down to 53 cuts. You realize there's plenty more shopping to do, right?
I dont know that Samia was necessarily the point of wanting to see pieces moved around towards the end of this last season, I think it was more to find out how Cleveland or ONeill fit on the left, or if Udoh was a legit candidate to play RT if ONeill was moved to the left side. Samia had shown pretty well 2 years ago, what happened this last year is a head scratcher as he was absolute garbage, but did a step back help him? probably not, but what was gained by playing our existing guys in positions they likely wont be asked to play in 21 with no real shot at anything?
Again, they were still in the playoff chase. You don't start experimenting when you are still in the hunt. Especially when you want further looks at a guy who was absolute horse shit. That's just comical.
Out of the chase after the Saints embarrassment. Even 1 game of experimentation (the Lions game) would tell us more about O'Neill at LT, Udoh starting.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
Where is the money for a UFA OG? Spotrac shows cap space without Peterson as something under $8M; he's going to take at least a big chunk of that. Some more seems to be coming from switching Rudolph to post-June 1, but that's probably for draft picks. I think we just used the OL money on Peterson. Daddy Zimmer took the grocery money to get his CB fix.
You wanted to tank to see more Samia. Now you want big bucks for a G?
Ok.
Have you noticed the contracts for second tier guys? Also, there's the draft, June 1 cuts, cut down to 53 cuts. You realize there's plenty more shopping to do, right?
I dont know that Samia was necessarily the point of wanting to see pieces moved around towards the end of this last season, I think it was more to find out how Cleveland or ONeill fit on the left, or if Udoh was a legit candidate to play RT if ONeill was moved to the left side. Samia had shown pretty well 2 years ago, what happened this last year is a head scratcher as he was absolute garbage, but did a step back help him? probably not, but what was gained by playing our existing guys in positions they likely wont be asked to play in 21 with no real shot at anything?
Again, they were still in the playoff chase. You don't start experimenting when you are still in the hunt. Especially when you want further looks at a guy who was absolute horse shit. That's just comical.
Out of the chase after the Saints embarrassment. Even 1 game of experimentation (the Lions game) would tell us more about O'Neill at LT, Udoh starting.
60 or 70 snaps in a meaningless game. Ok. And are you subjecting Cousins to the sieve? Any of these guys going to miss escalators? Udoh had 35 meaningless snaps vs Chicago the prior year, what was gleaned from that?
It's a shit idea. But, if that's the hill you want to die on, I'm cool with that.
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Mike Olson said:
I have no interest in this signing or the Peterson signing. Both to me seem like stupid moves for a team in our situation. Moves to excite fans for a few weeks into the season.
what situation is that? They are all in with Cousins, they are shoring up the D with people ready to play. These moves arent for the future, these are for a GM and Coach that need 11-12 wins and big playoff run to keep their jobs IMO.
Exactly. We won't get to 11 or 12 wins. Making moves for the coach and GM's jobs rarely work out for the team.
well when they gave that stupid extension to Cousins, Zim, and Spielman, they essentially sealed this fate for the fans. I agree its not promising, but I like it a lot better than what they tried last year so at least we have a season to look forward to at this point.... provided they find at least 1 decent FA OG soon to fill that gaping hole at LG.
I totally understand your perspective, Jimmy, and like you I accept we're watching the staff fight to fulfill promises they made and have not achieved. How else do you explain risking Cousins and Jefferson and Thielen in a meaningless game against Detroit to avoid 6-10?
But is this truly better than the 2020 offseason? People here were excited by getting Pierce as much as Tomlinson. Peterson will probably be better than Tajae Sharpe.
Both offseasons the Vikings released a veteran offensive lineman who played well. Josh Kline was apparently too injured to play again so it was more understandable last year. But it looks like Reiff (and Rudolph) were waived so that Zimmer could keep Barr and Smith and add more high level talent to the defense, the area where he is supposed to be able to develop players and invent schemes that make those players effective even if they aren't All-Pros.
The offense is being shortchanged to bolster the defense, as usual. Of course, you could say the defense needed the help. It does - but shouldn't allegedly superior coaching give the defense an edge? My perspective is that the offense, despite a precarious line, saved this team and its staff from a 3-4 win season, and rather than keep it a strength, it is being pulled down so it will likely be closer to the average form of the defensive unit.
you have to keep Smith over Rudy, ( I loved them both, but its a good decision) Smith is still a game changer that is honestly the guy that makes our D work (despite the belief by many that its Barr) when we have adequate DT play. Rudy is a good posession receiver, but he doesnt really make the defenses change what they are doing as he is lacking the athleticism to stretch the middle of the defense and force teams to change personell.
Barr, well that was another issue of a stupid contract, Wilson showed more last year despite poor DT play in front of him than Barr has in a long time. If Barrs deal wouldnt have been so Fd up, IMO the smart move would have been to dump Barr and resign Wilson, but with so much dead money, it made it impossible to walk away from Barr at this point.
Losing Reiff will sting, unless they pull something major out of their ass with OBrown, or get a day 1 starter our of either Cleveland or the draft, but yes they still need to work FA for another starter for the LG position IMO.
Where is the money for a UFA OG? Spotrac shows cap space without Peterson as something under $8M; he's going to take at least a big chunk of that. Some more seems to be coming from switching Rudolph to post-June 1, but that's probably for draft picks. I think we just used the OL money on Peterson. Daddy Zimmer took the grocery money to get his CB fix.
You wanted to tank to see more Samia. Now you want big bucks for a G?
Ok.
Have you noticed the contracts for second tier guys? Also, there's the draft, June 1 cuts, cut down to 53 cuts. You realize there's plenty more shopping to do, right?
I dont know that Samia was necessarily the point of wanting to see pieces moved around towards the end of this last season, I think it was more to find out how Cleveland or ONeill fit on the left, or if Udoh was a legit candidate to play RT if ONeill was moved to the left side. Samia had shown pretty well 2 years ago, what happened this last year is a head scratcher as he was absolute garbage, but did a step back help him? probably not, but what was gained by playing our existing guys in positions they likely wont be asked to play in 21 with no real shot at anything?
Again, they were still in the playoff chase. You don't start experimenting when you are still in the hunt. Especially when you want further looks at a guy who was absolute horse shit. That's just comical.
Out of the chase after the Saints embarrassment. Even 1 game of experimentation (the Lions game) would tell us more about O'Neill at LT, Udoh starting.
60 or 70 snaps in a meaningless game. Ok. And are you subjecting Cousins to the sieve? Any of these guys going to miss escalators? Udoh had 35 meaningless snaps vs Chicago the prior year, what was gleaned from that?
It's a shit idea. But, if that's the hill you want to die on, I'm cool with that.
how is that more meaningless than those same guys getting reps in pre season?
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